Naked and alive or clothed and dead?

I think it's an overreaction if done to anyone. It's lazy... The procedures are already in place which should have worked to take this guy off of the flight. The fact that he wasn't properly screened shouldn't result in everyone else's discomfort.

The reality is the odds are in favor of those that would do the harm, when We are limited to being reactive. Personally I think that a Blood Pressure, Pulse Scan would be more of a deterrent. Profile on that. Liquid Explosives, and now Powder Explosives are too easy to hide and too hard to detect. Imagine it in an implant. Best to better scrutinize. Even the use of dogs, just passing by them, could trigger a panic attack in a potential bomber, elevated heart rate. What is needed is Personnel capable of spotting the reaction.
I am not a munitions expert, and i don't play one on TV, but my understanding is that most explosives emit detectable amounts of certain gasses that are easily detectable with the right equipment. It is the reason there are so many dogs working the luggage.

Current procedures, properly applied, would have stopped this in Amsterdam.

Dogs are not fool proof, But, They are great at reading People , Fear, Potential Threat. They are worth the Trouble. List Cayenne Powder among their vulnerabilities though.
 
I think it's an overreaction if done to anyone. It's lazy... The procedures are already in place which should have worked to take this guy off of the flight. The fact that he wasn't properly screened shouldn't result in everyone else's discomfort.

The reality is the odds are in favor of those that would do the harm, when We are limited to being reactive. Personally I think that a Blood Pressure, Pulse Scan would be more of a deterrent. Profile on that. Liquid Explosives, and now Powder Explosives are too easy to hide and too hard to detect. Imagine it in an implant. Best to better scrutinize. Even the use of dogs, just passing by them, could trigger a panic attack in a potential bomber, elevated heart rate. What is needed is Personnel capable of spotting the reaction.
I am not a munitions expert, and i don't play one on TV, but my understanding is that most explosives emit detectable amounts of certain gasses that are easily detectable with the right equipment. It is the reason there are so many dogs working the luggage.

Current procedures, properly applied, would have stopped this in Amsterdam.

Dogs are great, will you trust your life totally to an animal? I would rather use every tool we have available. The dogs can search the baggage, Full body scan for the people. And if you are that embarrassed by your body, I'm sorry. I used to be rather pleasing to the eye but damned if that middle aged spread didn't get the better of me. (but I am working on it). But if I ever fly again (It seems as though I spent half my life flying somewhere) I want full body scans, dogs on the bags after the xrays, and at least one armed air marshal on the flight.
And no I am not afraid, But why be stupid?
 
there is a right to travel. but that right can be lost, along with many others, when one is incarcerated. you also do not have the right to "travel" everywhere you want to. for example, we don't have the right to saunter into the white house and walk into the president's residence... or through the back corridors of the capital building... or any number of public places which are barred to us.

like anything else, i'd think such 'rights' exist on a continuum which balances our "freedoms" against the needs of government. so if i have to go through a computer scan in order to get on a plane, then fine... i have no issues with it. if i can't leave my house without "papers", I do.. and there is a line somewhere in between the extremes.

you didn't really answer my question. do you think such a search, leaving your house, is unconstitutional? i don't understand what you're saying...."and there is a line somewhere in between the extremes"

i already agree with you on flying. you don't need to fly to travel.

i think it would be unconstitutional to make someone be checked leaving one's house. that doesn't mean that there is no set of circumstances under which the court would find that such an infringement is justifiable.

why? what if you get into your car to travel? does that change your opinion?
 
#1-Naked and Alive or #2-Clothed and Dead...
___

Answer: What is ABikerSailor's Two Options for finding a suitable date.

Sadly, there have never been any takers for option one - so ABikerSailor has had to make due with option two...
 
The reality is the odds are in favor of those that would do the harm, when We are limited to being reactive. Personally I think that a Blood Pressure, Pulse Scan would be more of a deterrent. Profile on that. Liquid Explosives, and now Powder Explosives are too easy to hide and too hard to detect. Imagine it in an implant. Best to better scrutinize. Even the use of dogs, just passing by them, could trigger a panic attack in a potential bomber, elevated heart rate. What is needed is Personnel capable of spotting the reaction.
I am not a munitions expert, and i don't play one on TV, but my understanding is that most explosives emit detectable amounts of certain gasses that are easily detectable with the right equipment. It is the reason there are so many dogs working the luggage.

Current procedures, properly applied, would have stopped this in Amsterdam.

Dogs are great, will you trust your life totally to an animal? I would rather use every tool we have available. The dogs can search the baggage, Full body scan for the people. And if you are that embarrassed by your body, I'm sorry. I used to be rather pleasing to the eye but damned if that middle aged spread didn't get the better of me. (but I am working on it). But if I ever fly again (It seems as though I spent half my life flying somewhere) I want full body scans, dogs on the bags after the xrays, and at least one armed air marshal on the flight.
And no I am not afraid, But why be stupid?

I don't believe I'm stupid but when it comes to full body scans just to get on an airplane I will quit flying. Of course, they will do the same to those on trains, and ships and put a stop to travel nationwide. Our people are the least traveled people in the world, way to make us even worse, and people who are untraveled, ARE stupid.

I'm not afraid to fly, I am, however, terrified that I'm going to be detained and prevented from taking my flight due to some idiot TSA agent that has no idea what he/she is doing and can't understand why I would need a medical bra with lots of medal hooks and eyes to fly. When it gets to the point that they insist I remove my bra....I'm not flying anymore and I sincerely doubt I will consider this my country anymore. I visited a prison in Mexico and I got less trouble than trying to get on a plane in my own country.

One more time, they haven't done anything that would have prevented 9/11, all they've done is harass innocent passengers in a lame attempt to make them "feel" safe.

Do you really believe your body scan is going to make you safe? Do you have any idea how FEW flights actually have air marshals, or how badly trained they are? Has an air marshal anywhere at anytime in recent history actually prevented something from happening on a flight? If so, I would love to hear about it....all I heard about was them shooting a guy that panicked because he wouldn't stop having his panic attack. < oh yeah, that's logic for you>
 
#1-Naked and Alive or #2-Clothed and Dead...
___

Answer: What is ABikerSailor's Two Options for finding a suitable date.

Sadly, there have never been any takers for option one - so ABikerSailor has had to make due with option two...

Interesting that you should say that Sinatra.

I'm a hippie, hippies like to run naked around other hippies.

Buttoned down conservatives like you wear suits.

Naked and alive? Me.

Dead and clothed? You.
 
I am not a munitions expert, and i don't play one on TV, but my understanding is that most explosives emit detectable amounts of certain gasses that are easily detectable with the right equipment. It is the reason there are so many dogs working the luggage.

Current procedures, properly applied, would have stopped this in Amsterdam.

Dogs are great, will you trust your life totally to an animal? I would rather use every tool we have available. The dogs can search the baggage, Full body scan for the people. And if you are that embarrassed by your body, I'm sorry. I used to be rather pleasing to the eye but damned if that middle aged spread didn't get the better of me. (but I am working on it). But if I ever fly again (It seems as though I spent half my life flying somewhere) I want full body scans, dogs on the bags after the xrays, and at least one armed air marshal on the flight.
And no I am not afraid, But why be stupid?

I don't believe I'm stupid but when it comes to full body scans just to get on an airplane I will quit flying. Of course, they will do the same to those on trains, and ships and put a stop to travel nationwide. Our people are the least traveled people in the world, way to make us even worse, and people who are untraveled, ARE stupid.

I'm not afraid to fly, I am, however, terrified that I'm going to be detained and prevented from taking my flight due to some idiot TSA agent that has no idea what he/she is doing and can't understand why I would need a medical bra with lots of medal hooks and eyes to fly. When it gets to the point that they insist I remove my bra....I'm not flying anymore and I sincerely doubt I will consider this my country anymore. I visited a prison in Mexico and I got less trouble than trying to get on a plane in my own country.

One more time, they haven't done anything that would have prevented 9/11, all they've done is harass innocent passengers in a lame attempt to make them "feel" safe.

Do you really believe your body scan is going to make you safe? Do you have any idea how FEW flights actually have air marshals, or how badly trained they are? Has an air marshal anywhere at anytime in recent history actually prevented something from happening on a flight? If so, I would love to hear about it....all I heard about was them shooting a guy that panicked because he wouldn't stop having his panic attack. < oh yeah, that's logic for you>

There are MANY good points to your post Sheila, I may have to pos rep you again, if I don't get the Heisman on you.

In Israel, KAL Airlines have people who screen, profile, ask questions, and know what to look for to keep everyone safe.

Wanna know why?

They're making a bit more than minimum wage, and, because they like the money, as well as the status, they do the best job possible, because they want to keep it.

Here in America (supposedly the most advanced nation in the world), we have minimum wage jockeys, who probably never went past high school (if that far at all), who are just looking for something to get cash for while they stand there.

No professionalism.
 
I am not a munitions expert, and i don't play one on TV, but my understanding is that most explosives emit detectable amounts of certain gasses that are easily detectable with the right equipment. It is the reason there are so many dogs working the luggage.

Current procedures, properly applied, would have stopped this in Amsterdam.

Dogs are great, will you trust your life totally to an animal? I would rather use every tool we have available. The dogs can search the baggage, Full body scan for the people. And if you are that embarrassed by your body, I'm sorry. I used to be rather pleasing to the eye but damned if that middle aged spread didn't get the better of me. (but I am working on it). But if I ever fly again (It seems as though I spent half my life flying somewhere) I want full body scans, dogs on the bags after the xrays, and at least one armed air marshal on the flight.
And no I am not afraid, But why be stupid?

I don't believe I'm stupid but when it comes to full body scans just to get on an airplane I will quit flying. Of course, they will do the same to those on trains, and ships and put a stop to travel nationwide. Our people are the least traveled people in the world, way to make us even worse, and people who are untraveled, ARE stupid.

I'm not afraid to fly, I am, however, terrified that I'm going to be detained and prevented from taking my flight due to some idiot TSA agent that has no idea what he/she is doing and can't understand why I would need a medical bra with lots of medal hooks and eyes to fly. When it gets to the point that they insist I remove my bra....I'm not flying anymore and I sincerely doubt I will consider this my country anymore. I visited a prison in Mexico and I got less trouble than trying to get on a plane in my own country.

One more time, they haven't done anything that would have prevented 9/11, all they've done is harass innocent passengers in a lame attempt to make them "feel" safe.

Do you really believe your body scan is going to make you safe? Do you have any idea how FEW flights actually have air marshals, or how badly trained they are? Has an air marshal anywhere at anytime in recent history actually prevented something from happening on a flight? If so, I would love to hear about it....all I heard about was them shooting a guy that panicked because he wouldn't stop having his panic attack. < oh yeah, that's logic for you>

The body scan takes less time than they spend on your baggage. It is noninvasive and you do not have to remove any clothing. And fortunately Air marshals haven't had to act in flight, and I understand their training is fairly good. But what would I know?

The men and women selected to be federal air marshals spend 11 weeks in one of the best — and most specialized — federal law-enforcement training programs. Before 9/11, the U.S. employed just 33 marshals. Since then, thousands have been hired (the precise number is classified). The government has spent $31 million improving facilities at the Federal Air Marshal Training Academy in Atlantic City, N.J., adding, among other things, mock airplane cockpits and a $400,000 NFL-size gym.

Read more: My Life As An Air Cop - TIME
 
9. CONTRACT TERMS
Throughout this booklet, we have tried to provide you general information about airline travel. It is important to realize, however, that each airline has specific rules that make up your contract of carriage. These rules may differ among carriers. They include provisions such as check-in deadlines, refund procedures, responsibility for delayed flights, and many other things.

Domestic Travel

For domestic travel, an airline may provide all of its contract terms on or with your ticket at the time you buy it. Many small "commuter" carriers use this system. Other airlines may elect to "incorporate terms by reference." This means that you are not given all the airline's rules with your ticket-most of them are contained in a separate document which you can inspect on request. If an airline elects to "incorporate by reference" it must provide conspicuous written notice with each ticket that: 1) it incorporates terms by reference, and 2) these terms may include liability limitations, claim-filing deadlines, check-in deadlines, and certain other key terms. The airline must also:


As I said,simply buying a ticket does not give you the right to automatically park your backside in a seat on an aircraft and dictate the terms by which that air travel will occur. Your rights are exercised freely when you choose to purchase the ticket, and freely walk up to a TSA Security screening station as a means of fulfilling your terms of the contract. If you "freely" choose not too, then you can walk away. Yes, both of these entities have to follow the law, and cannot knowingly take your rights away from you once you followed thier rules, but you as a passenger by purchasing a ticket have given consent to follow those rules and if you choose not too then they can take whatever measures they need to to keep the traveling public safe regardless of your rights.
 
Dogs are great, will you trust your life totally to an animal? I would rather use every tool we have available. The dogs can search the baggage, Full body scan for the people. And if you are that embarrassed by your body, I'm sorry. I used to be rather pleasing to the eye but damned if that middle aged spread didn't get the better of me. (but I am working on it). But if I ever fly again (It seems as though I spent half my life flying somewhere) I want full body scans, dogs on the bags after the xrays, and at least one armed air marshal on the flight.
And no I am not afraid, But why be stupid?

I don't believe I'm stupid but when it comes to full body scans just to get on an airplane I will quit flying. Of course, they will do the same to those on trains, and ships and put a stop to travel nationwide. Our people are the least traveled people in the world, way to make us even worse, and people who are untraveled, ARE stupid.

I'm not afraid to fly, I am, however, terrified that I'm going to be detained and prevented from taking my flight due to some idiot TSA agent that has no idea what he/she is doing and can't understand why I would need a medical bra with lots of medal hooks and eyes to fly. When it gets to the point that they insist I remove my bra....I'm not flying anymore and I sincerely doubt I will consider this my country anymore. I visited a prison in Mexico and I got less trouble than trying to get on a plane in my own country.

One more time, they haven't done anything that would have prevented 9/11, all they've done is harass innocent passengers in a lame attempt to make them "feel" safe.

Do you really believe your body scan is going to make you safe? Do you have any idea how FEW flights actually have air marshals, or how badly trained they are? Has an air marshal anywhere at anytime in recent history actually prevented something from happening on a flight? If so, I would love to hear about it....all I heard about was them shooting a guy that panicked because he wouldn't stop having his panic attack. < oh yeah, that's logic for you>

There are MANY good points to your post Sheila, I may have to pos rep you again, if I don't get the Heisman on you.

In Israel, KAL Airlines have people who screen, profile, ask questions, and know what to look for to keep everyone safe.

Wanna know why?

They're making a bit more than minimum wage, and, because they like the money, as well as the status, they do the best job possible, because they want to keep it.

Here in America (supposedly the most advanced nation in the world), we have minimum wage jockeys, who probably never went past high school (if that far at all), who are just looking for something to get cash for while they stand there.

No professionalism.

A lot of those airport security types are older than me.
 
You know.........that's one of those things that I kinda don't understand.......this "right to privacy" bullshit.

When I joined the Navy at 17 1/2 (was in boot camp 3 days after my 18th), the company commander told all of us that we'd lost 75 percent of our rights that we HAD as US Citizens.

For 20 years, I had no choice in what I wore (hardest morning of my life was about a week after I'd retired, and I couldn't figure out what to wear, because I was used to the same thing), had no choice where I lived (wherever the Navy needed me), had no right to refuse to do something if it was told to me by someone who outranked me (even if I'd never met them before), and had ZERO privacy.

Seems that the military likes to be able to share information with other units about people.

Also didn't have much right to privacy in my living quarters, as there were routine cleanliness inspections every week, with Health and Comfort (i.e. checking for contraband) inspections whenever the CO decided one was necessary.

Usually a couple of days prior to pulling back into the States after a deployment.

Those things weren't put there to hassle us or make us embarrassed, they were there to keep us safe!

Body scans shouldn't be an issue. Either use 'em and fly, or don't and drive.

Do you ever get tired of crying?
 
I'm not bitching you retarded cow fucker, I'm telling people that body scans are no big deal, and the overblown resistance to them is stupid.

What did you do Lonestar No Logic? Let another one of your cows step on your head?
 

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