Nailed to crosses..crucified..really ?!!

[emptystep]

Well EXCUSE me for trying to inject some knowledge into your religious discussion.

 

[Papageorgio]

That is erroneous, as the cross the church reveres is a symbol of what the Romans did to Jesus and the early church fathers, and of little more than that.

The cross itself is a very basic geometrical shape and to assert that other symbols of similar shapes are somehow related to the meaning and purpose the church uses the cross for based on that similar shape is simplistic to the point of idiocy.

I'm not taking sides here, just passing on something I thought relevant and interesting. Especially since people are nailing themselves to a pagan symbol. Here it is from the WatchTower itself, http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Beliefs/their_beliefs.htm:


Jesus crucified on a stake not a cross

They reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.

There are plenty of secular histories from inside and outside the Roman Empire that show the Romans used a cross not a pike or stake.

Had the Romans done that, then why would they adopt a cross rather than a pike?

For shits sake, you just pull any old bullshit from any group of wankers that you think will make an argument no matter how flimsy?

Your troll fu is weak.

So much for your discussion skills, I personally believe and so do many religious scholars believe it was a stake not a cross, which would have been a more painful but quicker death.

 

[Papageorgio]

Well EXCUSE me for trying to inject some knowledge into your religious discussion.

Some people don't like their ideas questioned.

 

[Dajjal]

I'm still young and I don't plan on having sex before marriage, I'm waiting till marriage...and I have God on my mind 24/7 but I dont think it will come easy because I met very devout people...it's more than we think...I want to be very high with some of the first thousands to walk into Paradaise and those will mostly be Prohets, followers of Prophets, and martyrs and poor followers of God...so it will be hard

I have been involved in spiritualism and occultism for fifty years. Once I attended a trance lecture by a medium that said the spirit of Arthur Conan Doyle spoke through her.

He said a lot of things, (if it was him) but one thing stands out in my mind, and that was he said. "the best advice I can give you is to live life to the full"

That is the advise I pass on to you as I was very religious in my youth and now I just regret missing the good times I might have had if I had not been such a pious pratt.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I'm still young and I don't plan on having sex before marriage, I'm waiting till marriage...and I have God on my mind 24/7 but I dont think it will come easy because I met very devout people...it's more than we think...I want to be very high with some of the first thousands to walk into Paradaise and those will mostly be Prohets, followers of Prophets, and martyrs and poor followers of God...so it will be hard

I have been involved in spiritualism and occultism for fifty years. Once I attended a trance lecture by a medium that said the spirit of Arthur Conan Doyle spoke through her.

He said a lot of things, (if it was him) but one thing stands out in my mind, and that was he said. "the best advice I can give you is to live life to the full"

That is the advise I pass on to you as I was very religious in my youth and now I just regret missing the good times I might have had if I had not been such a pious pratt.

Lmao, I know many people regrett not getting girls when they are young and not enjoying parties....but you're forgetting my background I am pretty strict religous person and none of that stuff matters to me I hate that stuff to

 

[JimBowie1958]

You are supposed to nail through the wrist. The palm cannot bear your bodies weight

You are a troll, but you make a valid point, but that is why it is depicted that ropes and chords were tied to the arms to help bear the wait.

That was the common understanding until the Shroud of Turin became popularly viewed in the West and showed the nails as having gone through the wrists. Even then most people still did not understand the actual location till the 20th century, if I recall correctly.

The shroud of turin has been carbon dated, and proved to be a medieval fake.

Dude, the carbon datings were erroneous due to bad sampling. There is no one to blame for that, really. The church wanted to avoiding damaging the cloth any more than necesary so they allowed the samples to be taken from the same spot on the cloth, which happened to come from a small section in one corner that had been repared after being damaged in a fire.

Datings from other thing like lignen, etc show it to be much older. The blood stains on the Shroud for example, exactly match the stains on another cloth that we do have a solid pedigree on back to the 7th century.

Shroud Of Turin Carbon Dating Overturned By Scientific Peer Review - Video

Carbon 14 Dating of the Mended Corner of the Shroud of Turin

A good site on the topic by an Anglican:
The Shroud of Turin Described

 

[Dajjal]

I don't know exactly how things wil be but hopefully for the righteous it will be a beatiful and loving scene....and the presence of peace...of god...imagine us all in heaven feeling peace and God is watching us and speaks to us maybe daily...and I will still pray to him if I go to Paradaise God willing.

God did not say the fires of hell will be eternal, MUHAMMAD SAID THAT IN THE QURAN.

The quran is a book of evil lies about God designed to scare people.

If you want to go to Allahs heaven you will go there without me because I will never worship a monster that says in the quran he only created men and jinns to worship him. Then says unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement will burn for eternity.

The quran says at verses 7.44 and 7.50 that if people burning in hellfire call out to you in heaven asking for a glass of water, you will say. "it is forbidden for unbelievers"

WHAT UTTER UNHOLY CRAP.

Believe me pal, if I see you burning internal hellfire and you ask me for a glass of water I will give you one no matter what God says.

I have been invoved in spiritualism for fifty years, and they say there is no devil, and there is no lasting hell. Here is a link to a popular spiritualist book about the afterlife.

LIFE IN THE WORLD UNSEEN

 

[Dajjal]

I'm still young and I don't plan on having sex before marriage, I'm waiting till marriage...and I have God on my mind 24/7 but I dont think it will come easy because I met very devout people...it's more than we think...I want to be very high with some of the first thousands to walk into Paradaise and those will mostly be Prohets, followers of Prophets, and martyrs and poor followers of God...so it will be hard

I have been involved in spiritualism and occultism for fifty years. Once I attended a trance lecture by a medium that said the spirit of Arthur Conan Doyle spoke through her.

He said a lot of things, (if it was him) but one thing stands out in my mind, and that was he said. "the best advice I can give you is to live life to the full"

That is the advise I pass on to you as I was very religious in my youth and now I just regret missing the good times I might have had if I had not been such a pious pratt.

Lmao, I know many people regrett not getting girls when they are young and not enjoying parties....but you're forgetting my background I am pretty strict religous person and none of that stuff matters to me I hate that stuff to

But you follow a religious doctrine that may be totally false. Whereas life is real in the here and now, and while you are praying your ass off trying to get into heaven after you die, you are missing the experiences that make people grow.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I don't know exactly how things wil be but hopefully for the righteous it will be a beatiful and loving scene....and the presence of peace...of god...imagine us all in heaven feeling peace and God is watching us and speaks to us maybe daily...and I will still pray to him if I go to Paradaise God willing.

God did not say the fires of hell will be eternal, MUHAMMAD SAID THAT IN THE QURAN.

The quran is a book of evil lies about God designed to scare people.

If you want to go to Allahs heaven you will go there without me because I will never worship a monster that says in the quran he only created men and jinns to worship him. Then says unbelievers in Muhammad and the day of judgement will burn for eternity.

The quran says at verses 7.44 and 7.50 that if people burning in hellfire call out to you in heaven asking for a glass of water, you will say. "it is forbidden for unbelievers"

WHAT UTTER UNHOLY CRAP.

Believe me pal, if I see you burning internal hellfire and you ask me for a glass of water I will give you one no matter what God says.

I have been invoved in spiritualism for fifty years, and they say there is no devil, and there is no lasting hell. Here is a link to a popular spiritualist book about the afterlife.

LIFE IN THE WORLD UNSEEN

God does say that but everyone will be out, and I already know your opinions, religion is spiritualism too , I'm declared to my religion since I was a kid, I believe in God and I don't go around trying to find other conclusions about afterlife

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I have been involved in spiritualism and occultism for fifty years. Once I attended a trance lecture by a medium that said the spirit of Arthur Conan Doyle spoke through her.

He said a lot of things, (if it was him) but one thing stands out in my mind, and that was he said. "the best advice I can give you is to live life to the full"

That is the advise I pass on to you as I was very religious in my youth and now I just regret missing the good times I might have had if I had not been such a pious pratt.

Lmao, I know many people regrett not getting girls when they are young and not enjoying parties....but you're forgetting my background I am pretty strict religous person and none of that stuff matters to me I hate that stuff to

But you follow a religious doctrine that may be totally false. Whereas life is real in the here and now, and while you are praying your ass off trying to get into heaven after you die, you are missing the experiences that make people grow.

You could say that , lol I can still have sex with my future wife, it's not about religion only , I never liked that lifestyle anyway... I always been a person who only believes in committed relationships....not skanking around

 

[JimBowie1958]

I have been involved in spiritualism and occultism for fifty years. Once I attended a trance lecture by a medium that said the spirit of Arthur Conan Doyle spoke through her.

He said a lot of things, (if it was him) but one thing stands out in my mind, and that was he said. "the best advice I can give you is to live life to the full"

That is the advise I pass on to you as I was very religious in my youth and now I just regret missing the good times I might have had if I had not been such a pious pratt.

Lmao, I know many people regrett not getting girls when they are young and not enjoying parties....but you're forgetting my background I am pretty strict religous person and none of that stuff matters to me I hate that stuff to

But you follow a religious doctrine that may be totally false. Whereas life is real in the here and now, and while you are praying your ass off trying to get into heaven after you die, you are missing the experiences that make people grow.

In your opinion.

In my opinion and experience, those who neglect the next life are fools and have zero spiritual growth of any real validity as our progress after death is a central theme of contemplation for most spiritual systems and truly vital for a complete picture of spirituality.

And I can assure you that what BIK believes is not at all 'totally false'.

And while he is praying his ass off and growing, you are causing yourself to become entirely focused on transient phenomena that is the true illusion.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Well EXCUSE me for trying to inject some knowledge into your religious discussion.

OK, now I am puzzled.

Are you being humorous? I dont do humorous very well.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I'm not taking sides here, just passing on something I thought relevant and interesting. Especially since people are nailing themselves to a pagan symbol. Here it is from the WatchTower itself, http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Beliefs/their_beliefs.htm:


Jesus crucified on a stake not a cross

They reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship.

There are plenty of secular histories from inside and outside the Roman Empire that show the Romans used a cross not a pike or stake.

Had the Romans done that, then why would they adopt a cross rather than a pike?

For shits sake, you just pull any old bullshit from any group of wankers that you think will make an argument no matter how flimsy?

Your troll fu is weak.

So much for your discussion skills, I personally believe and so do many religious scholars believe it was a stake not a cross, which would have been a more painful but quicker death.

Oh, for fucks sake...

Crucifixion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Crucifixion is an ancient method of deliberately painful execution in which the condemned person is tied or nailed to a large wooden cross and left to hang until dead."

It was called 'crucifixion' because a CROSS was involved in the punishment, and not a friking stake.

And EVERYONE, inside the Roman Empireand outside of it refered to Jesus death as crucifixion, not impalement. Even Muslims who do not nor ever believed that Jesus was killed refer to the alleged event as a crucifixion.

So how in God's Holy Name does anyone get this weird notion that He was impaled?

 

[BecauseIKnow]

Lmao, I know many people regrett not getting girls when they are young and not enjoying parties....but you're forgetting my background I am pretty strict religous person and none of that stuff matters to me I hate that stuff to

But you follow a religious doctrine that may be totally false. Whereas life is real in the here and now, and while you are praying your ass off trying to get into heaven after you die, you are missing the experiences that make people grow.

In your opinion.

In my opinion and experience, those who neglect the next life are fools and have zero spiritual growth of any real validity as our progress after death is a central theme of contemplation for most spiritual systems and truly vital for a complete picture of spirituality.

And I can assure you that what BIK believes is not at all 'totally false'.

And while he is praying his ass off and growing, you are causing yourself to become entirely focused on transient phenomena that is the true illusion.

Thanks a lot Jim , yes I don't see why people think we are wasting our time..., we have the feeling of peace and Gods love in our hearts all the time because of prayer. He watches his servants and is there for anything we need...just because you are into drinking and partying doesn't mean your life is happy, those people end up on welfare and they have many problems and drama in their lives...that's when the smart ones realize they are doing something very unhealthy and stop and get a degree and get married

 

[Dajjal]

In your opinion.

In my opinion and experience, those who neglect the next life are fools and have zero spiritual growth of any real validity as our progress after death is a central theme of contemplation for most spiritual systems and truly vital for a complete picture of spirituality.

And I can assure you that what BIK believes is not at all 'totally false'.

And while he is praying his ass off and growing, you are causing yourself to become entirely focused on transient phenomena that is the true illusion.

Why do you think we are here on earth, if not for experience sake.
Life is meant to be lived to the full ,and if we were never meant to live we would all be born into heaven in the first place.

I have studied such things all my life and concluded that the occult teachings of theosophy are closest to the truth. We incarnate thousands of times in a cycle of spiritual growth, and we incarnate on many different planets at different stages of our spiritual evolution.

Eventually we reach a state we can call enlightenment ,and after that our spirit stays in the higher immortal planes, and progresses on toward final unity with God.

 

[emptystep]

Well EXCUSE me for trying to inject some knowledge into your religious discussion.

OK, now I am puzzled.

Are you being humorous? I dont do humorous very well.

Do you have a specific denomination you adhere to?

 

[JimBowie1958]

But you follow a religious doctrine that may be totally false. Whereas life is real in the here and now, and while you are praying your ass off trying to get into heaven after you die, you are missing the experiences that make people grow.

In your opinion.

In my opinion and experience, those who neglect the next life are fools and have zero spiritual growth of any real validity as our progress after death is a central theme of contemplation for most spiritual systems and truly vital for a complete picture of spirituality.

And I can assure you that what BIK believes is not at all 'totally false'.

And while he is praying his ass off and growing, you are causing yourself to become entirely focused on transient phenomena that is the true illusion.

Thanks a lot Jim , yes I don't see why people think we are wasting our time..., we have the feeling of peace and Gods love in our hearts all the time because of prayer. He watches his servants and is there for anything we need...just because you are into drinking and partying doesn't mean your life is happy, those people end up on welfare and they have many problems and drama in their lives...that's when the smart ones realize they are doing something very unhealthy and stop and get a degree and get married

If it isnt too late.

Not all sins are forgiven and those that are are not forgiven in every sense of the word 'forgiven'.

Nature rarely truly forgives our mistakes, as the wife that gets a sexually transmitted disease from her wild husband may forgive him but that does not remove her disease he gave her.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Well EXCUSE me for trying to inject some knowledge into your religious discussion.

OK, now I am puzzled.

Are you being humorous? I dont do humorous very well.

Do you have a specific denomination you adhere to?

I am a Roman Catholic, though I have lost almost all respect for the priests that run the show.

 

[HUGGY]

what do u think happening ?

of all the christian mysteries, none rank as highly as the concept of christ’s crucifixion and atoning sacrifice. In fact, christians base their salvation on this one tenet of faith. And if it really happened, shouldn’t we all?

people nailed to crosses in good friday ritual - photoblog

head of the crucifixions, throngs of penitents walked several miles (kilometers) through village streets and beat their bare backs with sharp bamboo sticks and pieces of wood, sometimes splashing spectators with blood. Some participants opened cuts in the penitents' backs using broken glass to ensure the ritual was sufficiently bloody.

praise be to god for the grace of islam

But did jesus really crucified ?
jesus was neither killed, nor crucified
religious mysteries 101 – the crucifixion
the true teachings of jesus christ.

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]let us turn to qur'an, 3:55: [/font]​

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] “when allah said: O jesus! I will complete you(r term) [/font]​

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] and cause you to ascend unto me [/font]​

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] and cleanse you of those who disbelieve...” [/font]​

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]allah assures that jesus will be saved from the jews and that his term and what is destined for him is guaranteed for him and that allah will cause jesus to ascend unto him. The bible agrees that jesus ascended unto heaven (luke 24:51), but the main dispute is about what happened in between: The alleged crucifixion, death and resurrection of jesus (pbuh). [/font]​

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] allah says in qur'an that they neither killed him nor crucified him, but it was made to appear so unto them. In many places in qur'an, it has been mentioned that jews used to kill the prophets unjustly. But in the case of jesus (pbuh) it vehemently denies that they killed him or that they crucified him. This is because qur'an will not contain anything except truth.[/font]​

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] surah 4, verses 157 & 158: [/font]​

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif] “and their saying : We killed christ jesus, son of mary, the messenger of allah - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it was made to appear to them so; and those who disagree concerning it are full of doubts; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; for surely they killed him not; but allah took him up unto himself; [font=&quot] and allah is ever mighty, wise.” [/font][/font]

sick fucking freak christians!!!!!!!

 

[JimBowie1958]

In your opinion.

In my opinion and experience, those who neglect the next life are fools and have zero spiritual growth of any real validity as our progress after death is a central theme of contemplation for most spiritual systems and truly vital for a complete picture of spirituality.

And I can assure you that what BIK believes is not at all 'totally false'.

And while he is praying his ass off and growing, you are causing yourself to become entirely focused on transient phenomena that is the true illusion.

Why do you think we are here on earth, if not for experience sake.

We are here primarily for God's Purposes, only some of which He has shared with us.

Life is meant to be lived to the full ,and if we were never meant to live we would all be born into heaven in the first place.

Presumptive since one might not be capable of living well in Heaven until they are ready for it. Just as a person might not appreciate the finer wines til they develop their pallete, a person might find the Divine Presence of God to be a bit boring until they have purged themselves of love for all things of this life.

What you view as the life we are made for is, IMO, more correctly viewed as a transitory period for growth and preparatin for our intendedlife, much as the catapillar is but a transient form for the butterfly he finally becomes.

God I believe made us to be butterflies, not catapillars. So enjoy eating your leaves and building your cocoon all you want; I look forward to flying my ass off.

I have studied such things all my life and concluded that the occult teachings of theosophy are closest to the truth. We incarnate thousands of times in a cycle of spiritual growth, and we incarnate on many different planets at different stages of our spiritual evolution.

While incarnation is a satisfying thoughtin many ways, I do not think it valid primarily due to the lack of it among Abrahamic faiths which I think the purest expression of Gods Mind and Will for us.

Eventually we reach a state we can call enlightenment ,and after that our spirit stays in the higher immortal planes, and progresses on toward final unity with God.

Well, we agree on some things it seems, in effect.

But the most bsic requirement for any true spiritual growth is to be willing to push ego aside and speak less of what we think than what would seem to be true.

The important thing is the message and the more we focus on that, the more the 'I' is left aside it seems to me anyway. 'I' is here for good reasons, but I suspect those reasons are transitory as well and our final reward might be to return in some mystical way to the well from which we were sprung; God Himself. Maybe that is what is meant by being in the Divine Presence of God, I dont know.