N. Korea, 'only country on earth' free of AIDS

[Comrade]

could it be that you and your friends just have shockingly low moral and etchical values and theus the russians look good to you?

for example does a moron think and idiot is a genius?

heh.

 

[Said1]

That's not my goal - my goal is to suggest it's possible the AIDS cases there are VERY low; in part because of how controlled the people are.

It's possible that rates were quite low, but are now rising quickly due to denial and lack of education.

 

[Comrade]

That's not my goal - my goal is to suggest it's possible the AIDS cases there are VERY low; in part because of how controlled the people are.

I cannot accept that the N.K. government would tell the truth to either the outside world or its own people.

It's a commonly known fact that prostitution is a HUGE problem in the countryside, where most of the population exists without condoms, medical care, or decent information on the virus.

And once again, the #1 cause of HIV transmission is due to the existence of other, untreated, venereal disease.

 

[manu1959]

You can be 'good people' and still have casual sex. Heavy drinking and casual sex are and were an epidemic in the former USSR. Don't deny it without cause, because I was there and I've had this discussion with the natives.

same experience .... i was at some tourista hotel in moscow in 82 .... vodka and "hookers" everywhere

 

[dmp]

could it be that you and your friends just have shockingly low moral and etchical values and theus the russians look good to you?

for example does a moron think and idiot is a genius?

No - could it be you have your head up your ass?

 

[dmp]

You can be 'good people' and still have casual sex. Heavy drinking and casual sex are and were an epidemic in the former USSR. Don't deny it without cause, because I was there and I've had this discussion with the natives.

In my sampling group what you speak of is so rare as to be non-existant.

 

[Comrade]

For your edification:

http://www2.rz.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/RUSSIA_ETC.HTM

.........
"Russian youth sexual attitudes are more liberal than their peers in the UK, France, and Italy. However, Russian students' less judgmental opinions than, for example, their English counterparts on the subject of premarital or casual sex, abortion, and homosexuality do not translate into more liberal practices, which closely parallel foreign findings. The age of first sexual contact of young Russians is slightly lower than that of a young English or French, but the difference between average age of males and females is larger than abroad".
..........

Are you convinced yet?

 

[manu1959]

No - could it be you have your head up your ass?

nope....you?

 

[dmp]

For your edification:

http://www2.rz.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/RUSSIA_ETC.HTM




Are you convinced yet?

Russia isn't communist anymore. I'm convinced Russia of 1985 was more like the USA of 1940. Morals were established and people were more conservative.

As the Soviet Union crumbled, and Russia became/becomes more like the USA or western Europe, morals are and will be relaxed.

 

[Comrade]

You don't bother to read my link.

Denisenko and Dalla-Souanna (2001)[1] provide a synopsis of the history of youth sex behaviour research in Russia and the USSR throughout the 20th century, listing principal authors and findings regarding the age of sex life beginning. The authors noted a "continuous pattern of lowering in the age of respondents' first sex experience" is.

 

[dmp]

You don't bother to read my link.

I am reading, and skimmed your link - it doesn't offer much support for your claims "Russians-are-whores."

 

[Comrade]

Russia isn't communist anymore. I'm convinced Russia of 1985 was more like the USA of 1940. Morals were established and people were more conservative.

As the Soviet Union crumbled, and Russia became/becomes more like the USA or western Europe, morals are and will be relaxed.

Please read the link I gave. You're thinking of the medievil period under the Orthodox church, NOT the soviet times. Remember, the soviets fought the church, which drove morality and sex on an individual level much like they do in the USA today.

Historical and Sociological Matters [up] [Contents] [Index]


In medieval Russia, there was a severe penance for bachelors and maidens engaging in sex before marriage, with the penance often being twice as great for the maiden than the bachelor. The degree of penance for the bachelor was determined by the scandalousness of his partner. However, a "boys will be boys" attitude did come into play when assigning penance to a young lad who was seen as "simply sewing his wild oats." Not so for the maiden or her partner, for deflowering a maiden, even if she was willing, was seen as rape. Further the maiden ran the risk of pregnancy, and the Orthodox Church offered her no opportunity to be "saved by marriage"[3]. Few data on childhood sexuality appear to be available for the 18th and 19th century as manuals refrained from discussing these matters (Dunn, 1974390)[4]. This parallels Gorer's[5] earlier observations:



"We have very little information on infantile sexual play after the child is unswaddled (while it is swaddled there can obviously be none). The general picture seems to be that children are 'innocent' and 'sinless' and therefore nothing they can do can have any 'moral' or rather 'immoral' significance' ".



"Although there is little documentation of the physical care of children (especially toilet-training and regulation of childhood sexuality) in imperial Russia, Russian parents at that time can generally be described as detached, hostile and restrictive in their relations to their children"[6].



DeMause (1990)[7] pointed to "child marriage [being] widespread in Russia well into the nineteenth century. Despite Soviet attempts to uproot traditional forms of social organization, exogamy, kalym (a form of bride-price), polygamy, child marriage, and insistence on the subservience of wife to husband continued in some degree throughout the 1920's to 1950's (Winner, 1963)[8]. Not only were most girls married and sexually initiated prior to puberty[9], but fathers often had intercourse with their sons' child brides. As one nineteenth-century traveller reported:

 

[dmp]

Please read the link I gave. You're thinking of the medievil period under the Orthodox church, NOT the soviet times. Remember, the soviets fought the church, which drove morality and sex on an individual level much like they do in the USA today.

Again, I'm reading your link. You link isn't very convincing, however. I know people. I know the people I've come in contact with. I know how repulsed they are about how sex is the USA primary focus. I know these people to have morals last seen in the USA 50 years ago. Your link provided academics...academics I'm sure I could counter with enough time on google. The beauty of it is, I already know better.

 

[Comrade]

I am reading, and skimmed your link - it doesn't offer much support for your claims "Russians-are-whores."

Yet casual sex is certainly viewed as less moral relevence in the former USSR. Which is what you expect in the absense of any traditional church influence. What exactly don't you understand about this relationship?

 

[Comrade]

Again, I'm reading your link. You link isn't very convincing, however. I know people. I know the people I've come in contact with. I know how repulsed they are about how sex is the USA primary focus. I know these people to have morals last seen in the USA 50 years ago. Your link provided academics...academics I'm sure I could counter with enough time on google. The beauty of it is, I already know better.

Are you so defensive beacuase you are Russian? Remember, I'm pointing out what is entirely obvious to anyone who understands the influence of a church on a society... ie. less propesity for casual sex.

I really don't think it's hard to understand WHY it's that way in communist societies, nor anyone who has lived in one need question whether or not its true. It's just the way it is there... not that its sick and wrong, but it's true.

 

[dmp]

Yet casual sex is certainly viewed as less moral relevence in the former USSR. Which is what you expect in the absense of any traditional church influence. What exactly don't you understand about this relationship?

uh..because the USSR DID have a rather influential church...Church and Morality was happening even through government oppression. What don't you remember?? hehe

 

[dmp]

Are you so defensive beacuase you are Russian? Remember, I'm pointing out what is entirely obvious to anyone who understands the influence of a church on a society... ie. less propesity for casual sex.

I really don't think it's hard to understand WHY it's that way in communist societies, nor anyone who has lived in one need question whether or not its true. It's just the way it is there... not that its sick and wrong, but it's true.

I'm not Russian, but I know Russian and Ukrainian and Georgian and Armenian people. The things they talk about contradict the information in your link - in a big way.

 

[Comrade]

uh..because the USSR DID have a rather influential church...Church and Morality was happening even through government oppression. What don't you remember?? hehe

No, it didn't. Very few people practiced religion in the former USSR. IT WAS REPRESSED BY THE STATE. When the state oppresses something it does not flourish like you imagine.

 

[manu1959]

Russia isn't communist anymore. I'm convinced Russia of 1985 was more like the USA of 1940. Morals were established and people were more conservative.

As the Soviet Union crumbled, and Russia became/becomes more like the USA or western Europe, morals are and will be relaxed.

i was in moscow kiev and lenningrad in 82-83....nothing like the 40s...

 

[dmp]

No, it didn't. Very few people practiced religion in the former USSR. IT WAS REPRESSED BY THE STATE. When the state oppresses something it does not flourish like you imagine.

Tell me about the Russian Orthodox Church - and the roots of the nation. Russia - as a people, placed Religion/God in high esteem; dispite what 20th Century Communism tried to do.