My Wife's Grandparents Were Hiroshima Survivors

[MikeK]

Hiroshima and Nagaski were totally legit, unless you think invading Japan and losing more American lives were OK. Remember Japan attacked the US. My family lost two members in the Pacific.

Eliminating the need for further invasion is a convenient justification for those bombs. But those who recall the War years know the most popular motivation for Hiroshima and Nagasaki was revenge for Pearl Harbor and for the long, tormenting years of the Pacific Campaign.

 

[regent]

As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history? What would posters be writing about Truman today?

 

[gipper]

As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history? What would posters be writing about Truman today?

Wrong. The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.

Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.

If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland. That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified. Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie.

You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.

 

[regent]

As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history? What would posters be writing about Truman today?

Wrong. The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.

Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.

If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland. That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified. Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie.

You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.

The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins. Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.
But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over.
If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?

 

[gipper]

As I said earlier, if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the bombs and the war had continued and we had, even some of the the predicted casualties, how would Truman have gone down in history? What would posters be writing about Truman today?

Wrong. The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.

Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.

If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland. That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified. Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie.

You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.

The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins. Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.
But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over.
If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?

Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.

The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.

At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes. They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."

IRONIC THING:
After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?

 

[regent]

Wrong. The war was over well before the bombs were dropped.

Truman is the epitome of a war criminal for dropping those bombs.

If you knew history, you would know the government lied about casualty rates, had we had to invade the mainland. That lie was spun to fool Americans into believing the a-bombs were justified. Sadly many Americans continue to believe the lie.

You must learn, even at this late stage of your life, that the State always lies to cover up it's heinous actions.

The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins. Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.
But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over.
If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?

Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.

The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.

At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes. They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."

IRONIC THING:
After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?

Assuming your figures are correct:
If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept 60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?

 

[gipper]

The casualty rates on the invasion of Japan were predictions and predictions do not always measure up to the reality. What were the casualty predictions on Okinawa and Iwo? How accurate were those predictions. Casualty predictions are needed before a campaign begins. Body bags, (mattress covers) crosses, hospital ships, all are part of the planning.
But the general feeling was that when we invaded Japan, we would have casualties, despite your announcement that the war was over.
If the war was over why were we still fighting the Japanese?

Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.

The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.

At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes. They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."

IRONIC THING:
After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?

Assuming your figures are correct:
If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept 60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?

Oh brother...you will never learn.

All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it. Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.

You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives. I do not.

 

[regent]

How long did the war last after Hirohito told his leaders to surrender?

 

[whitehall]

It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.

Really now?

The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed. A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children. As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur. But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).

It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war. The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.

It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.

 

[regent]

Sure we would have had casualties, but nothing like the 500,000 Truman pronounced would occur, AFTER he incinerated women, children, and old men with the bombs.

The US military predicted casualties would be around 60k, if we invaded the home islands.

At any rate, Japan only asked that the Emperor stay on the throne after Japan surrendered, and not be charged and hung for war crimes. They asked this well before Truman committed the world's most heinous war crime...but Truman said, "FUCK you...you dirty (racist term of Japanese people)."

IRONIC THING:
After Truman ruthlessly murdered all those innocent people with the two bombs and Japan surrendered unconditionally, he agreed to leave the Emperor alone...that should tell you something...No?

Assuming your figures are correct:
If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept 60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?

Oh brother...you will never learn.

All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it. Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.

You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives. I do not.

So which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?

 

[whitehall]

Assuming your figures are correct:
If Truman had to choose between three choices: accept 60,000 American casualties with an invasion; continue to fire-bomb what was left of the Japanese cities; or use the bombs, what choice would have been best?

Oh brother...you will never learn.

All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it. Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.

You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives. I do not.

So which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?

Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.

 

[gipper]

It's interesting to note that there really was little or no media coverage of the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki radiation sickness. There is an interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner George Weller called "First into Nagasaki". The book was compiled after Weller's death by his son who found the carbon copies of his accounts in Nagasaki shortly after the Japanese Surrender. Weller was working for the A.P. at the time and all his stories had to go through MacArthur's staff for approval before being sent to the A.P. Weller didn't even know it at the time but Mac's people spiked every single story and nothing got out. MacArthur had a little kingdom going in Japan and he was the de-facto Japanese ruler.

Really now?

The reason there was little US media coverage was because Truman and our military KNEW the American people would be appalled by the massacre their government committed. A massacre of civilians, most of whom were women and children. As such, Truman and the military silenced any media coverage of conditions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Truman was warned not to drop those terrible bombs on a defenseless nation by many in his administration and military, including Eisenhower and MacArthur. But, he wanted to frighten the thug, Stalin (like killing innocents on a vast scale would ever frighten him...Truman was a racist fool, but just as dumb as FDR).

It is a terrible fallacy that the bombs were necessary to avoid more bloodshed and end the war. The Japanese had tried to surrender several times, but thanks to FDR's crazy unconditional surrender, the death and destruction continued unabated.

It's true. FDR was a stroke victim and a virtual corpse during the latter days of WW2 so who was running the government? Crazies like Morganthau were around but the generals were in charge and the generals were pissed and they didn't really care for the Marine Corps. When Truman woke up on morning and found out that he was president he didn't have a clue. The Military was in charge and by God they were going to drop the Big One no matter what.

Not accurate. Many generals including Ike and MacArthur told Truman not to drop the bombs. Others in his administration voiced negative opinions...knowing full well Japan was defenseless. Truman was solely responsible for the war crime.

Truman dropped them because he wanted to control Stalin and show the world our power. But also, he was a terrible racist who hated the Japanese...thinking them less than human. Most ironic considering he claimed to be a devout Christian.

 

[regent]

Oh brother...you will never learn.

All dipshit Truman had to do, was accept Japan's only condition...that the Emperor stay on the throne as a figure head and the war was over....and thus the greatest war crime in history would have been averted...but you are too hard headed to see it. Truman accepted Japan's condition anyway...but after he murdered thousands of innocents.

You believe incinerating women and children is fine, if it saves American soldiers lives. I do not.

So which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?

Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.

Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.

 

[Unkotare]

So which killed more Japanese civilians, America's bombing of Japan including the firebombing or the A bombs?

Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.

Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.

That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.



And it's "sake," you dope.

 

[regent]

Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.

Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.

That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.



And it's "sake," you dope.

The Japanese could have ended the war any time. In fact, when the Japanese did decide to end the war, it was over. That simple.
Where the tired starving old women and prepubescent children came from beats me.

 

[Mad Scientist]

And it's "sake," you dope.

Most people don't know how it's really pronounced, nor do they care. Just like Karaoke isn't pronounced "Carry Oh Kee" and Harakiri isn't pronounced "Harry Carry" either.

Give it a rest.

 

[Unkotare]

Give it a rest.

Why?

 

[gipper]

Life was cheap once the generals took over the US government. Dresden was a mistake and the use of a nuclear weapon against a defeated country was an atrocity.

Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.

That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.



And it's "sake," you dope.

Well said.

For Americans to believe the BIG LIE that 500,000 American troops would have died had we invaded Japan, they must be able to believe the most absurd absurdities.

Of course the Japanese were a tired and wary nation. Their young men were mostly dead by August '45. Their cities in ruin. Thousands of civilians murdered from the air....and yet, they were going to fight the world's greatest military to the last woman and child...with pitch forks.

How does one believe such tripe?

 

[Unkotare]

Thanks to posters I'm starting to see a different world from 1945. I even see Operation Downfall differently. I now see the Japanese beaches crammed with Japanese welcoming the American delegation (not troops). Japanese kids are waving American flags (made in China) and parents holding saki bottles as gifts. Hirohito is standing pen in hand ready to sign anything.
A small boat approaches the beach, a major is leaning over the side measuring the water depth, when his tape indicates two feet. MacArthur jumps into the water and wades ashore. Hirohito signs and MacArthur makes his "I have returned speech" and the American delegation heads back to their ship and the Pacific war is over.

That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.



And it's "sake," you dope.

Well said.

For Americans to believe the BIG LIE that 500,000 American troops would have died had we invaded Japan, they must be able to believe the most absurd absurdities.

Of course the Japanese were a tired and wary nation. Their young men were mostly dead by August '45. Their cities in ruin. Thousands of civilians murdered from the air....and yet, they were going to fight the world's greatest military to the last woman and child...with pitch forks.

How does one believe such tripe?

It seems a most fervently held 'belief' by those who feel they have to justify Truman's decision but cannot reconcile the moral component of it. It's similar to the cognitive dissonance of pro-abortionists who try to quiet their conscience by telling themselves the issue doesn't involve human life. People will go to great lengths to justify what they think they 'must' believe.

 

[gipper]

That's only a little more ridiculous than the notion that all scared, tired, starving old women and prepubescent children would be fighting to the death as an overwhelming military force rolled into a burnt and broken nation full of people long since tired of war.



And it's "sake," you dope.

Well said.

For Americans to believe the BIG LIE that 500,000 American troops would have died had we invaded Japan, they must be able to believe the most absurd absurdities.

Of course the Japanese were a tired and wary nation. Their young men were mostly dead by August '45. Their cities in ruin. Thousands of civilians murdered from the air....and yet, they were going to fight the world's greatest military to the last woman and child...with pitch forks.

How does one believe such tripe?

It seems a most fervently held 'belief' by those who feel they have to justify Truman's decision but cannot reconcile the moral component of it. It's similar to the cognitive dissonance of pro-abortionists who try to quiet their conscience by telling themselves the issue doesn't involve human life. People will go to great lengths to justify what they think they 'must' believe.

So true and so sad. IMHO it is a form of ignorance.

I believed Truman acted properly, after attending the brainwashing that is our government school system. But after doing the research and analyzing the history, it is impossible to conclude the bombings were justified or necessary. It is a war crime of the highest order. But the blame lays entirely on the shoulder's of a corrupt lying political...as it often does.