My view on why our economy is pure shit.

[Liberty]

So, I have realized that since the Occupy movement, quite a few people do not understand capitalism. OWS was convinced that capitalism was the cause of their problems and personal failures. Unfortunately, they succumbed to mistaking capitalism for corporatism. If you do not know the difference, please google it. If you think corporatism is capitalism, you will seek government intervention in a way that surpasses corporatism, and that is socialism. These OWSers have it backwards, as do many of Americans.

Capitalism is not the problem, it is the solution. Capitalism has not existed for a century. How about we give it another shot? Get government out of the subsidy game, get government out of anything involving business. Government's only job is to regulate currency and they can't even get that right (see article 1 section 8).

Corporatism is not capitalism...and socialism is not the answer. Get the government out. Restore capitalism.

Thank you.

 

[Gagafritz]

OK. Done.

 

[samjones]

OWS was convinced that capitalism was the cause of their problems and personal failures....

Corporatism is not capitalism

Major corporations that are freely and publicly traded on a major exchange are the very essence of American Capitalism. It is "The American Way" that Superman fought for all those many years and it is more important than "truth" or "justice".

OWS wanted 3 things.

* Better control over the banking sector. They wanted Glass-Steagal reinstated
* Fair and democratic elections - they wanted legislation outlawing the end result of Citizens United v. The FEC.
* Congress to be subject to the same insider trading laws that the rest of us are.

They got none of them and nothing has been done to address the root causes of the financial crisis of '08. Fortunately for us the economy sucks so bad that nobody has the scratch to take advantage of the inherent flaws of our banking system, but once the economy gets back on its feet you can be sure that we'll have the exact same problems that we had before.

 

[Liberty]

Corporatism involves government picking winners and losers...capitalism does not. As long as subsidies exist, capitalism, and by proxy, economic freedom cannot exist.

 

[samjones]

Corporatism involves government picking winners and losers...capitalism does not. As long as subsidies exist, capitalism, and by proxy, economic freedom cannot exist.

So if we all agree that subsidies are bad then you're cool with that? You think that will fix America?

 

[Liberty]

Corporatism involves government picking winners and losers...capitalism does not. As long as subsidies exist, capitalism, and by proxy, economic freedom cannot exist.

So if we all agree that subsidies are bad then you're cool with that? You think that will fix America?

I think it would start a chain reaction with the ultimate outcome being a stronger and more free economy and society.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

removing government from business altogether and returning it to the proper role of upholding the law and properly defining private property rights is definitely the way to go. This would also have to involve a responsible monetary policy.

If the government could no longer aid businesses by supplying subsidies or competition crippling (and highly ineffective) regulatory measures, these businesses would no longer be able to lobby government for special interest.

Put the government OUT of business entirely.

I agree with Liberty all the way on this.

 

[samjones]

If the government could no longer aid businesses by supplying subsidies or competition crippling (and highly ineffective) regulatory measures, these businesses would no longer be able to lobby government for special interest.

Guess they don't turn the news channels on in the common room of the place you live in.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I don't watch entertainment and label it as news, no. And THEY would be ME in this instance since I live alone in my own house.

 

[samjones]

I don't watch entertainment and label it as news, no. And THEY would be ME in this instance since I live alone in my own house.

Surely your parents and doctors are very proud of this major victory. You would not be so quick to support total deregulation if you found out all the money in your bank account was gone because the bank was crooked.... if you had a bank account, that is.

 

[Truthmatters]

removing government from business altogether and returning it to the proper role of upholding the law and properly defining private property rights is definitely the way to go. This would also have to involve a responsible monetary policy.

If the government could no longer aid businesses by supplying subsidies or competition crippling (and highly ineffective) regulatory measures, these businesses would no longer be able to lobby government for special interest.

Put the government OUT of business entirely.

I agree with Liberty all the way on this.

Unfettered capitalism created the era of the kings and queens.

No rules is what you want and they will do anything for profit.

You want this country handed over to the wealthy, WHY?

 

[Liberty]

TM, do you ever get tired of making shit up?

 

[Truthmatters]

give me a time in history that unfettered markets created what you claim they will create?

 

[samjones]

Unfettered capitalism created the era of the kings and queens.

No, thta was called "feudalism". No shit. We learned it in 9th grade Western Civ.

Look, this is America and as far as I'm concerned every person is born with the right to make as much money as he or she possibly can.

I don't see why the banks have a right to knowingly misrepresent the values of the homes that they lend us money to buy. It's almost like going to roulette table and offering to lend a guy money to gamble based on how much the guy next to him won in the last hour.

We are smarter than that, no?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I don't watch entertainment and label it as news, no. And THEY would be ME in this instance since I live alone in my own house.

Surely your parents and doctors are very proud of this major victory. You would not be so quick to support total deregulation if you found out all the money in your bank account was gone because the bank was crooked.... if you had a bank account, that is.

Surely you understand nothing about economics.

You also obviously do not know what deregulation means.

Now, being that you can not address what i'm saying with any intellectual prowess and resort to ad hominem, I'm only left to believe I've been debating politics/economics (and living on my own) while you were still smearing shit on your face. Run along son, use your google search and come back with an actual argument.

 

[GHook93]

"In these tough economic times, many people think government is the solution to our problems, rather government is the problem!"
- The Late Great Ronald Reagan

 

[Big Fitz]

* Better control over the banking sector. They wanted Glass-Steagal reinstated
* Fair and democratic elections - they wanted legislation outlawing the end result of Citizens United v. The FEC.
* Congress to be subject to the same insider trading laws that the rest of us are.

Funny. never saw any signs like those at the protests I witnessed. Nor did any occupado voice such sentiments that I've heard.

Glass/Stegal should be reimposed. This is a no brainer. The problem is they want to have government control income and redistribute wealth from it's rightful owners to whomever THEY see fit to have it. Nooooo.... that won't be rife with corruption. mm mmmm... they're pure as the wind driven snow.

"Fair" elections by eliminating Citizens United? Bullshit. You cannot talk about fair elections till you address and implement voter ID shoring up a major defect in fair elections by closing the door on ineligible or multi voters. Second, till unions PACs Super PACs 427's and other activist groups are cut out of the election process, Citizens United only levels the playing field. Either all get access or none get access. THAT is fair, and the Occupados wanted none of that shit. THAT their signs did say.

This is another 'no shit sherlock' moment. Again, nobody at an Occupado rally that I saw in the 6 weeks I observed them did I see carry that sign or even suggest such. I saw more "No blood for oil" signs than I saw that.

So let's not try to pretend that the Occupados really believe what you're saying. They didn't and aren't.

 

[Liberty]

give me a time in history that unfettered markets created what you claim they will create?

19th century United States. Now, give me a time in history in which government picking winners and losers in a corporatist economy lead to prosperity?

 

[Big Fitz]

removing government from business altogether and returning it to the proper role of upholding the law and properly defining private property rights is definitely the way to go. This would also have to involve a responsible monetary policy.

If the government could no longer aid businesses by supplying subsidies or competition crippling (and highly ineffective) regulatory measures, these businesses would no longer be able to lobby government for special interest.

Put the government OUT of business entirely.

I agree with Liberty all the way on this.

Unfettered capitalism created the era of the kings and queens.

No rules is what you want and they will do anything for profit.

You want this country handed over to the wealthy, WHY?

Remedial history for truthiepoo.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-9pDZMRCpQ]Tea Party - Schoolhouse Rock - No more Kings - YouTube[/ame]

That's remedial in you obviously haven't learned it, not revisionist like you're used to.

Why are you trying to make our government nobility again with total control over everything?

 

[GHook93]

- Community Reinvestment Act: During Clinton administation, the CRA forced the Banks to write bad loans and the banks did just that. The Mortgage bubble was built and burst. Created a housing and credit crisis.

- China Barrier and WTO: During the Clinton Administration, he tore down the barriers that protected us alittle bit from China.

- Stiffling Regulations: We have some of the most burdensome and expense regulations on business in the world. Business go overseas to avoid them.

- Union Power and Corruption: Unions are given so much power, since Dimocrats need them to get elected.

- Taxation: Our takes on corps and small businesses are sick!

- China: Our refusal to fight the trade war is killing us and destroying out manufacturing base.

- NAFTA: Some free trade agreements are great, like CAFTA, but NAFTA is killing us

- Run away spending: When government spends to much they start to create "revenue" streams. These revenue streams start to cost us everywhere, accelerates inflations and weakens the dollar. Right now food, gas and everything costs so much, it takes away our purchasing power.

- Cost of College: Since Clinton made student loans non-dischargable, lenders were giving student loans away like candy. In effect, colleges DRASTICLLY raised the price of tuition. Four tuition for an undergrad cost more than a house now. The debt for undergrads and grad students is killing this generation. No one talks about the greed of colleges, they only talk about the greed of corporations. I think University greed is worst than corporate greed.

- Healthcare: Healthcare costs and health insurance costs. Both are huge costs. heath insurance benefits are a huge burden and put our corps at a disadvantage in the world market.

- Public Union Worker Pensions and Benefits: Pensions are never self-funded and are always hugely expensive. There is a reason less then 1% of the private business still have pension. 60% off all taxes dollars in Cook County goes to paying pensions! What the fuck is up with that! That money should go to the schools, roads or lower taxes. They should go to retired workers. Pensions must be paid illegal and individual retirement plans (401k and IRA) should take their place.

- Environazis and the EPA - They put some many barrier to business that it becomes expensive and time consuming to do business in America. They also disallow us to be come oil independent. See the current Canadian pipeline deal? We could drill in CO, in the Gulf, overshore, in ANWR and deepsea and be off the foreign oil tit, but they won't let us. We are the Saudi Arabia of Natural Gas, but Environazis will eventually prevent us from using it.