My thoughts on the pledge of allegiance

[ihopehefails]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

 

[Oldandtired]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

Nah....your points are valid as an opinion...and you are entitled to them. I disagree as I see it strictly as a pledge to our country (represented by the flag)....and the rest of it is based on the culture of the time when it was written...and is now more of a tradition.

I see your point....I disagree with you wholeheartedly....but it is well thought out and not worthy of disdain by those with an open mind to others opinion.

But I agree with one thing....it may stir up a hornets nest!

 

[Cecilie1200]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

How about getting some flack from the English majors who are appalled at your lack of basic language mastery?

1) The Pledge of Allegiance is not a "disguised loyalty oath". There's nothing "disguised" about it. The very words, "Pledge of Allegiance" MEAN "Oath of Loyalty". So what? You have a problem with swearing loyalty to things?

2) The phrase ". . . and to the republic for which it stands" does not refer to the government. Please contemplate the words ". . . for which it stands". The "it" would be the flag. Does the flag stand for the government? Or does it stand for the nation as a whole? Hello? Am I ringing any bells here?

3) The purpose of the Pledge of Allegiance is a tough one. That purpose is . . .wait for it . . . for you to PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG AND THE NATION IT STANDS FOR. Duh. And since this is a free country, if you don't wish to swear your loyalty to it, feel free not to.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

I agree with your point in the top part, and then you go and spoil it by putting that sentence in. Are you really so self-involved that anyone who disagrees with you hates America? Has a liberal ever told you that they hate America? Or did you just need to make sure no one thought you were a liberal in this post?

 

[Liberty]

TC is ignorant. It has nothing to do with the government, it is allegiance to the flag and the republic, the republic representing the PEOPLE. Idiot.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

I have read your post several times. The one sentence that strikes out at me is your words, "What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country?" My answer to that is maybe you should move to where ever it is that you could swear an allegiance to. When I think about your attitude, I wonder if we ever went into another conflict such as WWII, how supportive would you be of the United States? People like you worry me. I think your attitude is in line with the feelings of way too many people in this country. More and more every day there is a rising lack of respect for God. There is also a rising lack of respect for the United States. Where does all of this end? In my humble opinion, people's rejection of God and the rejection of the belief in the core principals of which founded our country is one of the biggest problems we face in America. It's a shame. I also feel that if you don't love America enough to swear an allegiance to it you should feel a degree of shame too.

 

[Charles Stucker]

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge.

I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case.

The lack of pledge for States and the word Indivisible are the hidden propaganda in the pledge of allegiance. I would expect liberals to be all about the pledge as it deters the people of the states from considering secession, but you are right the liberals do no support the pledge of allegiance.
Liberals don't Hate the US; they have a vision which is fr different from the conservatives. Conservatives tend outnumber liberals in any society which is prosperous. So some liberals may secretly wish for the US to be less prosperous to get more numbers to their banner. Look how well the carefully timed "release" of the banking collapse information worked in turning the 08 election around.

 

[ihopehefails]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

I agree with your point in the top part, and then you go and spoil it by putting that sentence in. Are you really so self-involved that anyone who disagrees with you hates America? Has a liberal ever told you that they hate America? Or did you just need to make sure no one thought you were a liberal in this post?

No but after seeing how much liberals literally went into a hissy-fit over Bush and spend most of their time reciting how much of American history is filled with Americans doing evil I can't think of anything else than they hate America. I have also noticed how many leftist claimed that "blowback" was the reason why 911 happen and therefore it was justified and I have also noticed how often the left sides with other people in other nations who hate America.

 

[ihopehefails]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

I have read your post several times. The one sentence that strikes out at me is your words, "What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country?" My answer to that is maybe you should move to where ever it is that you could swear an allegiance to. When I think about your attitude, I wonder if we ever went into another conflict such as WWII, how supportive would you be of the United States? People like you worry me. I think your attitude is in line with the feelings of way too many people in this country. More and more every day there is a rising lack of respect for God. There is also a rising lack of respect for the United States. Where does all of this end? In my humble opinion, people's rejection of God and the rejection of the belief in the core principals of which founded our country is one of the biggest problems we face in America. It's a shame. I also feel that if you don't love America enough to swear an allegiance to it you should feel a degree of shame too.

There is a huge difference in being loyal to your own country and being loyal to the government that happens to hold all legal authority at the time. Think of all the people who lived under Saddam who loved Iraq but hated the government or people who loved germany but chose not to be loyal to the NAZI government. Not that I am comparing our government to a NAZI government but the point is that being loyal to ones country doesn't always mean being loyal to the government which is my complaint about the pledge of allegience.

 

[ihopehefails]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

How about getting some flack from the English majors who are appalled at your lack of basic language mastery?

1) The Pledge of Allegiance is not a "disguised loyalty oath". There's nothing "disguised" about it. The very words, "Pledge of Allegiance" MEAN "Oath of Loyalty". So what? You have a problem with swearing loyalty to things?

2) The phrase ". . . and to the republic for which it stands" does not refer to the government. Please contemplate the words ". . . for which it stands". The "it" would be the flag. Does the flag stand for the government? Or does it stand for the nation as a whole? Hello? Am I ringing any bells here?

3) The purpose of the Pledge of Allegiance is a tough one. That purpose is . . .wait for it . . . for you to PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG AND THE NATION IT STANDS FOR. Duh. And since this is a free country, if you don't wish to swear your loyalty to it, feel free not to.

No I actually think swearing loyalty to something is quite healthy such as joining the military. In that situation a loyalty oath is quite appropriate as people will be called to defend their country but people living in a state of freedom shouldn't really be required to pledge their loyalty to anything unless loyalty is needed.

 

[Luissa]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

the thing that some don't understand is the fact you can burn are flag in protest and it is protected by our constitution is what is so great about this country. It is alright for the teabaggers to protest our government but god forbid a bleeding heart liberal protest anything, since they hate america and all.

 

[ihopehefails]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

the thing that some don't understand is the fact you can burn are flag in protest and it is protected by our constitution is what is so great about this country. It is alright for the teabaggers to protest our government but god forbid a bleeding heart liberal protest anything, since they hate america and all.

There is no reason to burn the flag of your own country unless you hate it or not have any sense of identification with it. And yes people have the power to burn the American flag but other people have the right to be upset about it because expressing your general displeasure with flag-burning is also protected speech under the same first amendment that protects flag burners.

 

[ihopehefails]

TC is ignorant. It has nothing to do with the government, it is allegiance to the flag and the republic, the republic representing the PEOPLE. Idiot.

I would much rather swear an allegiance to my own self and the right to pursue my own interest and the purpose of any government in a free society is to protect those interest.

 

[Luissa]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

the thing that some don't understand is the fact you can burn are flag in protest and it is protected by our constitution is what is so great about this country. It is alright for the teabaggers to protest our government but god forbid a bleeding heart liberal protest anything, since they hate america and all.

There is no reason to burn the flag of your own country unless you hate it or not have any sense of identification with it. And yes people have the power to burn the American flag but other people have the right to be upset about it because expressing your general displeasure with flag-burning is also protected speech under the same first amendment that protects flag burners.

but it is alright to protest at the capitol building which has about the same sort of symbolism as the flag does.

 

[California Girl]

I know this is going to be misunderstood as being anti-American and I really don't blame people for thinking that considering all the liberal flag burners in this country but I really don't agree with the pledge of allegiance as a concept. I think that its really a disguised loyalty oath that makes us swear a pledge to the government or why would they put "to the republic for which it stands". Why can't it be something like I pledge allegiance to the flag (symbol of our country) and to freedom and justice for all where we will be pledging to our nation and our fellow citizens and not to our government.

None of us makes pledges to the state or city governments. There is not even a pledge for our own states but the federal government has its own pledge. What if I really don't want to pledge allegiance to our country? Don't have the right to do that and still be here?

I expect to get a lot of flack from conservatives and I also think a lot of liberals will be cheering because there is a fellow USA hater but that is not the case. I actually like being an American who lives in a free society but I'm questioning the purpose of the pledge of allegiance.

the thing that some don't understand is the fact you can burn are flag in protest and it is protected by our constitution is what is so great about this country. It is alright for the teabaggers to protest our government but god forbid a bleeding heart liberal protest anything, since they hate america and all.

That's not actually true. The progressives (who pass themselves off as liberals these days) have been burning flags and disrespecting everything that others hold dear for decades. That is why they are considered anti-American. Because they were - and are - anti-American. I don't think you are one of those liberals, I think you are a real liberal and real liberals, while I may not agree with them, are not anti-American. The problem is your DNC has been hijacked by progressives. Those people pay lip service to the Constitution - they do not want to run our country by its founding principles.

 

[midcan5]

Devil's advocate mode on: Interesting that this constitutes an item for discussion from a new member. I like the 1892 variant as it represents an (pure?) ideal, but even here one could nitpick. Consider 'one nation indivisible,' nations became religion after religion lost its political power and consider too the wars of hubris nations have started. Or the faults of nationalism. And then we added 'under God,' which god is that as there seem to be so many. Would man kill man in such large numbers without nation and religion?

1892
“I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.”
1892 to 1923
"I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1923 to 1924
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1924 to 1954
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1954 to Present
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

"Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. 'Patriotism' is its cult." Eric Fromm

DA off.

 

[xotoxi]

The problem I have with the pledge of allegiance is the fact that the vast majority of the time, it is spoken by people who have absolutely no idea what it means and say it as mindless drones.

The people to whom I am referring are the millions of school children across the country who each morning, while sitting at their desks at 8am wanting to go back to sleep, are told to stand up, place their hand on their heart, and say it in unison like zombies. Most of them either don't know what it means, or don't care.

Give me another example of an oath or a pledge that you would say that you did not understand what it meant or did not care what it meant?

 

[California Girl]

Devil's advocate mode on: Interesting that this constitutes an item for discussion from a new member. I like the 1892 variant as it represents an (pure?) ideal, but even here one could nitpick. Consider 'one nation indivisible,' nations became religion after religion lost its political power and consider too the wars of hubris nations have started. Or the faults of nationalism. And then we added 'under God,' which god is that as there seem to be so many. Would man kill man in such large numbers without nation and religion?

1892
“I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.”
1892 to 1923
"I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1923 to 1924
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1924 to 1954
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1954 to Present
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

"Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. 'Patriotism' is its cult." Eric Fromm

DA off.

Thank you for telling us stuff we already knew. How very helpful, and how very typical of a leftie. Just because you have only just learned the history of the pledge does not mean the rest of us are that stupid.

 

[Montrovant]

Thank you for telling us stuff we already knew. How very helpful, and how very typical of a leftie. Just because you have only just learned the history of the pledge does not mean the rest of us are that stupid.

Not knowing the history of the pledge would be ignorance. Being unable to tell the difference between ignorance and stupidity would be more worthy of being labeled stupid.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself there CG, no offense!

 

[California Girl]

Thank you for telling us stuff we already knew. How very helpful, and how very typical of a leftie. Just because you have only just learned the history of the pledge does not mean the rest of us are that stupid.

Not knowing the history of the pledge would be ignorance. Being unable to tell the difference between ignorance and stupidity would be more worthy of being labeled stupid.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself there CG, no offense!

No offense taken. LMAO