My thoughts on the Islamic world.

[MHunterB]

"i think a lot of people in this country, the united states, really are justifying the reputation as ugly americans that some people have"

Obviously you never read the original book of that title - or you'd know that 'the ugly American' was one of the good guys and earned the respect and admiration of the Vietnamese who knew him.

Yes, I know the convention is to attribute that phrase to the many less-than-wonderful American characters in that novel - but the specific character who had that epithet bestowed upon him was 'ugly' only in physical appearance.

 

[Unkotare]

i think a lot of people in this country, the united states, really are justifying the reputation as ugly americans that some people have. i have never seen this country like this before, so ideologically divided. we may have lost our center.

"This country"? I thought you said you were Irish.

 

[sealadaigh]

"i think a lot of people in this country, the united states, really are justifying the reputation as ugly americans that some people have"

Obviously you never read the original book of that title - or you'd know that 'the ugly American' was one of the good guys and earned the respect and admiration of the Vietnamese who knew him.

Yes, I know the convention is to attribute that phrase to the many less-than-wonderful American characters in that novel - but the specific character who had that epithet bestowed upon him was 'ugly' only in physical appearance.

you would be wrong. i have read the book and i have seen the movie and i have lived in southeast asia long before LBJ said "din bin foo", which i had heard about when i was growing up as a child in france. he immortalised those words slightly before i went on a little tour of the country he was talking about in fact...well, a bit south of dien bien province as they had this 17th parallel dealio that had these domino things on it or something. mah jong is a better game, don't you think. the tiles are more manageable than dominoes in case you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to throw one in an attempt to put your little brothers eye out. in most families such situations don't usually occur more than twice, fortunately.

why yes, i am familiar with "hearts and minds". thank you.

i am familiar also with a 1940s photo taken by a cuban gentleman named, i believe, constantino arias, something like that. it is not obvious to me whether you have heard of him and his photo or not, but in any event..."hasta la victoria siempre, amiga."

excuse me if my reference to "ugly american" offended you in any way. that was certainly not my intent.

 

[MHunterB]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/books/review/Meyer-t.html?pagewanted=all

For those who want to know what I was talking about.

My condolences to you on your apparently violent childhood sibling relationship, assuming that wasn't just a hypothetical observation on your part.

I'm still visiting with my Sis after almost a month, and we're still best friends..... In fact, we're planning on taking a cruise together sometime this winter.

 

[Sunni Man]

I totally agree also about this site and the ugly Americanism, but then we must remember that this site is atypical. I'd hate to think all Americans were as extremist and as ill-infomed as many of our number are here!!

Actually, this site is a cross section of everyday American people and their views about life, politics, and religion.

I know because I hear the exact same things expressed both at the job and in public.

 

[High_Gravity]

My favorite thing about the Islamic world is the cuisine, I love shawarmas and my favorite food is Persian kababs with saffron rice, khubbuz and tomatoes.

 

[sealadaigh]

Everyone can't be as special and "elite" as you, Intermediate.

this isn't the board for that. you should go elsewhere.

You never told me where you're from. Is it a hard question?

actually, and i am not trying to be offensive or evasive at all, but it is a hard question.

i was born in kandang kerbau hospital and left it to "diplomats, kaffirs, kidnappers and potentates" to sort out who would have legal possesion of my adorable little booty, other than my parents of course. i left a few years after my birth and my mom and dad didn't let me take the pet tiger some important muckety muck gave me for a christening present but they bought me a guinea pig instead. i was three. what did i know. i named him chris. he was much more user friendly than the tiger too. i think chris ran away. he just disappeaarred one day and i checked my poskets to make sure i didn't sit on him. i am a lucky guy though. just the week before my parents got me a pet cat.

 

[sealadaigh]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/books/review/Meyer-t.html?pagewanted=all

For those who want to know what I was talking about.

My condolences to you on your apparently violent childhood sibling relationship, assuming that wasn't just a hypothetical observation on your part.

I'm still visiting with my Sis after almost a month, and we're still best friends..... In fact, we're planning on taking a cruise together sometime this winter.

http://artwirth.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/picture-61.png

and for those who want to know what i was talking about, here is a photo entitled "the ugly american" taken in 1948 and preceding the novel by ten years. it was taken in batista's cuba by constantino arias, who chronicled cuban life in the mid twentieth century.

my brother and i are fast friends and i love him dearly. the tile incident took place when my father was stationed overseas and my mom was taking care of us near a wisconsin farm. he and i were just cooped up too long...but like i said, i am lucky. two nights before i went over to my friends house. his dad was a butcher and he had all these cool things out back in a huge freezer building. i needed something for show and tell the next week and his dad gave me a cow brain, a heart, and a couple of pigs eyeballs.

i had the eyeballs in the closet but i could just hear my mom yelling "young man, what have you done to your little brothers eyes!!! just wait unti; your father gets home!!!" oh man. so i ran to the closet, grabbed the pigs eyes and some testors plastic cement (pre sniffing era) and glued the orbs into my brothers sockets. i promised him i would catch him three rogs the next day if he would keep his mouth shut and i had to guide him around for a few weeks but my mom was none the wiser. whew. i dodged a bullet on that one.

i hope you enoy your sister and have fun planning the trip. stay away from mahong tiles and acetylene torches and i am sure the planning will go off like clockwork and do me a little favour. try to smile a bit.

i flunked show and tell. the teacher said "what is wrong with you? you can't bring your little brother to show and tell." man, did that make me mad. i would have won for sure. the little guy was flat out scarey looking.

 

[sealadaigh]

My favorite thing about the Islamic world is the cuisine, I love shawarmas and my favorite food is Persian kababs with saffron rice, khubbuz and tomatoes.

now you're making me hungry.

i have only really met one ethnic dish i didn't like. the koreans make this whole smelt dish, guts and all, where they have the whole fish cooked until it was stiff and crunchy, and it was cooked in some sort of carmalised syrup and sprinkled with sugar...which is freaking me out just thinkig about it.

 

[Katzndogz]

My favorite thing about the Islamic world is the cuisine, I love shawarmas and my favorite food is Persian kababs with saffron rice, khubbuz and tomatoes.

now you're making me hungry.

i have only really met one ethnic dish i didn't like. the koreans make this whole smelt dish, guts and all, where they have the whole fish cooked until it was stiff and crunchy, and it was cooked in some sort of carmalised syrup and sprinkled with sugar...which is freaking me out just thinkig about it.

Chinese candy made of fish skin. I shudder at the memory of the taste.

 

[High_Gravity]

My favorite thing about the Islamic world is the cuisine, I love shawarmas and my favorite food is Persian kababs with saffron rice, khubbuz and tomatoes.

now you're making me hungry.

i have only really met one ethnic dish i didn't like. the koreans make this whole smelt dish, guts and all, where they have the whole fish cooked until it was stiff and crunchy, and it was cooked in some sort of carmalised syrup and sprinkled with sugar...which is freaking me out just thinkig about it.

Never had that, but I do like Korean food especially Kim Chi and Bulgogi.

 

[Truthmatters]

I really dont think Americans will buy another religious war.


They will refuse to fight this one for these nutters

 

[Saigon]

I really dont think Americans will buy another religious war.


They will refuse to fight this one for these nutters

I hope so.

But on the good side, the US is less involved on the battlefields of the ME than they have been for many years. Tunisia, Egypt and Libya have been largely succesful (this weeks rioting aside) and you are out of Iraq and soon out of Afghanistan.

I think the only fear would be Romney wanting to go into Syria or Iran - both of which would be terrible mistakes.

And yes, they would be terrible mistakes for Obama as well.

 

[High_Gravity]

Everyone in the ME needs to just chill, stop burning American flags and yelling "ALLAHU AKBAR" and just get in the kitchen and cook up some shawarmas with spicy hummus, yum.

 

[Saigon]

Everyone in the ME needs to just chill, stop burning American flags and yelling "ALLAHU AKBAR" and just get in the kitchen and cook up some shawarmas with spicy hummus, yum.

Not to mention making love with those gorgeous Lebanese women!

 

[High_Gravity]

Everyone in the ME needs to just chill, stop burning American flags and yelling "ALLAHU AKBAR" and just get in the kitchen and cook up some shawarmas with spicy hummus, yum.

Not to mention making love with those gorgeous Lebanese women!

The Iranian women are pretty nice too, I hooked up with a Persian Princess once in Cali.

 

[Unkotare]

this isn't the board for that. you should go elsewhere.

You never told me where you're from. Is it a hard question?

actually, and i am not trying to be offensive or evasive at all, but it is a hard question.

No it's not. What does it say on your passport?

 

[Unkotare]

I really dont think Americans will buy another religious war.

"Another"?

 

[Unkotare]

My favorite thing about the Islamic world is the cuisine, I love shawarmas and my favorite food is Persian kababs with saffron rice, khubbuz and tomatoes.

now you're making me hungry.

i have only really met one ethnic dish i didn't like. the koreans make this whole smelt dish, guts and all, where they have the whole fish cooked until it was stiff and crunchy, and it was cooked in some sort of carmalised syrup and sprinkled with sugar...which is freaking me out just thinkig about it.

Never had that, but I do like Korean food especially Kim Chi and Bulgogi.

Yukejang is the best.

 

[alpine]

I'm a lucky guy.

I've been fortunate enough to have spent time in more than a dozen Islamic countries, usually for a month here or a month there, but adding up to a couple of years of flitting between Jakarta, Damascus, Tirana, Amman and Dhaka, anyway. I have been through the Golan Heights with Syrian soldiers, have been to the Hezbollah HQ and so forth as well.

So though I watch the news of flag-burnings and bombs like everyone else, I also have my own experiences of being in places like Southern Lebanon and the Golan Heights to balance against what I see on my TV.

My personal experience of Islam is terrific. I have found people in the Middle East in particular extremely welcoming, friendly and open. I have been invited into mosques, have spent late nights discussing religion, and even spent one day at the beach in Syria being quizzed by a family of thirty about everything from my wife's work to the workings of the EU. I have never experienced any bigotry or hostility towards Christianity, nor towards Europe. On the contrary, I have always been treated with respect and that has extended to my country and religion.

I have also met extremists, who I have found terrifying. They often struck me as sour, bitter people whose hatred had nothing to do with Israel or anything else. The politics is only an excuse to justify hatred and killing - much as it is in Christian countries like Liberia, Rwanda or El Salvador.

My conclusion (and this is backed by research) is that 90%+ of Muslims are our allies. They are normal people, they want jobs and good schools and Nike and Nokia and peace. They will never fire a gun in their life. But there is a small hard core who are our enemy, and who are everything people on this board say they are.

The key thing to understand is that no two Muslim countries are alike. Pakistan and Syria are as different as the US and Mexico, or Sweden and Italy. Some countries are moderate by nature and history (Tunisia, Malaysia, Oman) others extremist by nature and history (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Nigeria).

What I believe we need to do - and what Obama has done very well - is to court the moderates. To offer carrots. This isolates the extremists, and allows moderate Muslims (who are often reluctant to criticise their own people publicaly, much as posters here are reluctant to criticise their own party) to take control.

Islam is not your enemy. Hatred is your enemy.

What has Obama done very well?