My small "Democrat" side: Will Cons be happy with govt service cutbacks???

[Gremlin-USA]

The OP's consensus seems to be Police and Fire Services will be hurt by keeping Taxes Low.

I ask this, why do the States that have No State Income Tax, Low Property Tax and Low Local Taxes seems to get along just fine compared to the States that have the Highest Tax Rates?

Is it because maybe the have no Unions?
Is it because they spend their Discretionary Funds wisely?
Is it because they have less Corruption in their Government?

Just saying......

.

 

[buckeye45_73]

The problem I have with the OP like all liberals, they want more cops, but then they want to let the criminals off with probation or let them out of jail early. If you keep criminals in prison then you wont need as many cops.

 

[bucs90]

. They'll call the cops because they lost their iphone and just want a report for an insurance claim....

I actually had to do that once. THe insurance company would not accept my claim without a police report I live in one of the biggest murder cities in the nation. I felt like a total douchebag calling the cops about a lost cell phone - but there was no other way about it.

Yeah, I should be more pissed at the soulless turds that run cell phone companies, especially T-MOBILE who has given me the absolute worst service experience of my life.

Lots of PD's are now just giving generic "incident numbers" for lost cell phones that indicate that a report was made, but not a full, typed out incident report. Just a 911 call-log with the callers name, complaint type and case number.

 

[The T]

The problem I have with the OP like all liberals, they want more cops, but then they want to let the criminals off with probation or let them out of jail early. If you keep criminals in prison then you wont need as many cops.

And the fact that most cops are 'after the fact' in response...best way is to be armed.

 

[bucs90]

The OP's consensus seems to be Police and Fire Services will be hurt by keeping Taxes Low.

I ask this, why do the States that have No State Income Tax, Low Property Tax and Low Local Taxes seems to get along just fine compared to the States that have the Highest Tax Rates?

Is it because maybe the have no Unions?
Is it because they spend their Discretionary Funds wisely?
Is it because they have less Corruption in their Government?

Just saying......

.

Depends on your outlook. States with very low taxes include Texas, Florida, South Carolina, Georgia. They also have some of the highest rates of violent crime in the nation, and are among the lowest paying for cops and firemen in the nation. Business flourishes, which is great. Now, it is VERY possible to have low taxes AND a well funded police/fire depts. BUT, priorities must be set. And that means no govt owned golf courses, massive parks, expansive rec depts, fancy govt owned opera houses. Its gotta be the basics only. At least here in my state, that isn't the case.

So it's not just the low taxes that hurt cops and firemen. Its low taxes plus bad municipal priorities that hurt them. So basically, having low taxes is fine, so long as the local govt is only dabbling in public safety, roads, schools. And not the frills and political promises to build unnecessary shit on top of it.

 

[bucs90]

The problem I have with the OP like all liberals, they want more cops, but then they want to let the criminals off with probation or let them out of jail early. If you keep criminals in prison then you wont need as many cops.

I'm not a liberal, I'm fairly right wing. I am a former cop, so I'm very pro-police and fire.

The court and prison system is a fucking joke. You are right about that. Cops have no control over it. Separation of powers. Cops only put them into the system. The justice system lets 'em out.

"More" cops isn't always the answer either. Better cops are. Better recruit candiates become better cops, and better cops are more efficient and motivated. Cutting pay and benefits wont produce that. A city can be patrolled far better by 50 good, motivated cops than 100 shitty ones.

I dont want "more" cops necessarily. I want the good ones to be able to keep making a nice living, stay motivated, get additional training to keep themselves and us safe. I want the PD's to keep attracting GOOD candidates, not just random guys who need a job, OR the short-man syndrome Napoleon types who have a DEEP desire to have that power. Ex-military guys and former athletes tend to make the best, most common sense and efficient cops because they've had some discipline in their lives before and dont need the ego trip to validate themselves. But, we gotta pay well to get guys like that rather than settle for guys like "Trooper Farva" (you all know who he is right?).

 

[flacaltenn]

Be optimistic Bucs90 -- the current catastrophic budget problems at state and local levels have even the LEFTIST causes realizing that Fiscal Responsibility is a prerequisite for HAVING social programs.

Even the tax and spend lobby is now indicating some awareness that priorities need to be set and govts have to live within their means. You can't get funds for discretionary leftist causes when govt is bankrupt.

 

[bucs90]

The problem I have with the OP like all liberals, they want more cops, but then they want to let the criminals off with probation or let them out of jail early. If you keep criminals in prison then you wont need as many cops.

And the fact that most cops are 'after the fact' in response...best way is to be armed.

True. But many make arrests "before the fact" that the public doesn't hear about. While you are absolutely right that its fairly uncommon to call 911 and have a cop right there very quickly.

But, lots of arrests are made when cops proactively stop people, and find guns, drugs, warrants, etc, on people who are looking to commit a crime, but are stopped before they do. So while it is an unknown stat, many crimes are caught "before the fact", and of course, many are "after the fact".

Just a reality of the frustrations of law enforcement.......and the NECESSITY of the 2nd Amendment!!!!!!!

 

[The T]

The problem I have with the OP like all liberals, they want more cops, but then they want to let the criminals off with probation or let them out of jail early. If you keep criminals in prison then you wont need as many cops.

And the fact that most cops are 'after the fact' in response...best way is to be armed.

True. But many make arrests "before the fact" that the public doesn't hear about. While you are absolutely right that its fairly uncommon to call 911 and have a cop right there very quickly.

But, lots of arrests are made when cops proactively stop people, and find guns, drugs, warrants, etc, on people who are looking to commit a crime, but are stopped before they do. So while it is an unknown stat, many crimes are caught "before the fact", and of course, many are "after the fact".

Just a reality of the frustrations of law enforcement.......and the NECESSITY of the 2nd Amendment!!!!!!!

Oh i don't doubt it...I like "COPS" and "Baitcar"

 

[bucs90]

Be optimistic Bucs90 -- the current catastrophic budget problems at state and local levels have even the LEFTIST causes realizing that Fiscal Responsibility is a prerequisite for HAVING social programs.

Even the tax and spend lobby is now indicating some awareness that priorities need to be set and govts have to live within their means. You can't get funds for discretionary leftist causes when govt is bankrupt.

Yeah. I just hate to see the attitude that if something gets cut, everything gets cut, and cops/firemen lives are hurt in the process. Same for teachers too.

Now, within reason. I didnt sign up as a cop years ago expecting 100K a year. None do. So, I get the Wisconsin, Jersey, California situations. Cops should get a nice compensation package, especially healthcare since the job takes a physical toll on the body with the hours, heavy equipment worn daily, fights, etc, etc. A nice salary, 40-60K is very fair. State Troopers here started at 22K just a few years ago!!!! Thats pathetic. I can't sympathize with some cops who say an entry level patrol officer should make 100K. Thats just not the case. Not only is that just not realistic, but then you'd have some in it just for the money. And in a burning building or hostage or school shooting situation, I dont want someone who is in it only for the great pay coming to the rescue. I want guys who do it despite the pay............but, that pay still must be somewhat decent to attract and keep good folks.

 

[The T]

Be optimistic Bucs90 -- the current catastrophic budget problems at state and local levels have even the LEFTIST causes realizing that Fiscal Responsibility is a prerequisite for HAVING social programs.

Even the tax and spend lobby is now indicating some awareness that priorities need to be set and govts have to live within their means. You can't get funds for discretionary leftist causes when govt is bankrupt.

Bankrupt Governments? Here you go...

Report: Detroit Could be Broke in One Week | TheBlaze.com

 

[MaxCha]

Here are small examples of the $11.0 billion in Federal Expenditures that is a START!!!

are you OK with these Uses of YOUR tax dollars?

* $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job
* The (NIH) spent nearly $442,340 to study male prostitutes in Vietnam and their social setting.
* A university study of how much alcohol college freshmen women require before agreeing to sex!
* $700,000 federal grant to examine "greenhouse gas emission from organic dairies, caused by cow burps.
* The National Science Foundation spent $250k to Stanford to study how Americans use the Internet to find love.
* (ATF) spent over $20,000 in taxpayer money "to unravel the anonymity of a 2,500-year-old mummy."

See these and more egregious uses of OUR tax dollars!
Down load this report and get nauseous of examples how $11.5 billion in tax dollars absolutely WASTEFULLY spent like the above...
http://coburn.senate.gov/public/ind...;File_id=774a6cca-18fa-4619-987b-a15eb44e7f18

I mean REALLY WHAT THE HELL IS THE FUNDING OF VIETNAMESE MALE PROSTITUTES HAVE TO DO WITH MEETING THE IMMEDIATE SECURITY NEEDS OF THE USA???


"Cow burps"??? $250,000 to study how they contribute to greenhouse gas???
These are NOT necessities!
These are just a few of examples Coburn's report shows!
And believe you me trillions of dollars in taxes would be forthcoming IF the federal govt wasn't spending for stupid idiotic projects like above!
There is over $1 trillion off shore by companies that have shareholder responsibilities and many shareholders WOULD be OK with paying a 35% tax IF this money was being spent WISELY!
But Obama Personally has SPENT more in trips that ANY other President!
WASTE! GSA WASTE!!
FAST AND FURIOUS! WASTE!
All of these examples are making MORE americans less prone to pay taxes!
TErrible wasteful spending!
Guess what group makes more average salaries ... FEDERAL Workers!
In Dallas for example a communications Director making $186,000! WASTEFUL!

Wow, what an incredible manipulation of data.

You are referring to research institutes who are often PARTIALLY funded by the government, though sometimes they are primarily funded by tax money.

I am currently getting my masters in research psychology, so I am very familiar with these studies. They are no different under Obama or any other president. It's easy for some stupid partisan hack to boil a research study down and say it's about "cow burps." The study was about methane release from livestock - which is actually one of the LARGEST contributors to green house gas emissions in the world. But some partisan idiot can say "Oh God, they're studying how often cows fart."

Those other study's are also MISREPRESENTED by your brief blurbs about one small aspect of a larger research study. It's like me saying "Republicans spending tens of millions to stop us from masturbating." True in a distant way, but totally crap.

Try look something up before you post it. I find it crazy how partisan people, either dems or reps, fight certain points to the death even though they know almost nothing about them.

 

[Ernie S.]

Lots of good points here. I agree, the Feds waste far more than local govts. Why? I can't speak for the other 49 states, although I bet it's mostly the same, but SC's state law mandates a balanced budget for all city govts. They, by law, must be balanced, no exception.

But, as one person said, the "concentration" of local resources to basic govt functions are what we need. No more govt spending on bullshit parks, massive recreation dept projects that while fun are not necessary. No more Taj Mahal like palaces for rich folks to watch operas in, like the Gaillard Auditorium in , CharlestonSC, that the city is spending millions on while their police are being told to use their own money to put gas in the patrol car for ON DUTY patrols and 911 calls.

The Tea Party movement is very strong in South Carolina. The state is already a low-tax state. The state is also yearly in the top 5 for worst rates of violent crime. People here are bitching about the crime, about why the cops dont "do something" about it, then in the next breathe have an outcry for less taxes and smaller government. And, for the record, South Carolina has ZERO police or fire dept unions. It is a non-union state, and every single cop and firemen is employed at-will, no contract, non-union.

Just food for thought next time someone wonders why crime is up, response time is worse, and morale amongst the cops and firemen drops and fewer of them are wanting to go "above and beyond" their basic core roles.

OK This will come off as racist to some here, but if you want to cut Charleston's crime rate in half, cut welfare payments in half. Of course, you'll only be moving the problem to Columbia or maybe Savannah, but what the hell.