My Reason For Bringing Back Drawing And Quartering

[GotZoom]

A 19-year-old woman was arrested Tuesday by Mesa police for the alleged drowning of her newborn son in a toilet.

"What she told us was she didn't want any the family or friends to know that she was pregnant, had given birth to a child," said Mesa Police Detective Tim Gaffney.

Officers responded to call at about 10 p.m. July 8 from a local hospital about a welfare check on a woman, Leandra Berumen. She told police that she gave birth at home on July 7 to a baby boy, who was dead. She said she and a friend took the baby to a local mortuary and dropped him off.

Berumen later admitted to investigators that the baby was at her Mesa home in a closet. Police found the baby in a closet, dead.

The Maricopa County Medical Examiners Office completed an autopsy and determined that the baby was alive at birth.

After receiving the results of the autopsy, detectives located Berumen in Kearny, Ariz., and arrested her. She admitted to detectives Tuesday that the baby cried and was moving when she gave birth. She did not want anybody to know about the baby so she held him down inside of a toilet.

She was booked for one count of Second Degree Murder.

In 2001, Arizona joined several states that have a "Safe Haven Law" for newborn babies.

The Safe Haven Law allows mothers, fathers, or whoever is in possession of an unharmed newborn that is up to 72 hours old to leave the child with any hospital, church, adoption agency, health care institution, child welfare agency, or fire station. Individuals can remain anonymous and will not be prosecuted for abuse as long as there are no signs of physical injury to the baby.

http://www.620ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=63317

 

[dmp]

I hate quoting the dixie chicks..

but sung do 'earl needs to die'

"That girl needs to die".

 

[Gabriella84]

So you are saying that abortion is worse than this?
Probably a victim of "abstinence only" sex education.

 

[Abbey Normal]

More likely she was a victim of the liberal "I'll do whatever I feel like and let someone else pay the price" syndrome.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Probably a victim of "abstinence only" sex education.

Explain your reasoning on this absurd statement. (if u can)

 

[no1tovote4]

So you are saying that abortion is worse than this?
Probably a victim of "abstinence only" sex education.

No, I am saying that there is no difference and that killing a developing human is killing a developing human regardless of birth status. I even used the example in another thread that IMO there is no difference between drowning a child at birth and tearing it apart in the womb.

 

[archangel]

So you are saying that abortion is worse than this?
Probably a victim of "abstinence only" sex education.

have been given the name..."Walking Eagle"...too full of shit to fly!

 

[Gabriella84]

Explain your reasoning on this absurd statement. (if u can)

Gladly. A female who knows nothing about birth control or the bodily process involved in getting pregnant is ill prepared to handle a sexual situation. If she is a member of a deeply conservative family that places pregnancy on the same sin level as murder or other serious crimes, she will be too scared to seek help. She will also do anything possible to avoid letting anyone know she was pregnant.
This situation happens more often than you can imagine. You would be surprised at how many kids get themselves into similar situations and are deathly afraid to come forward. They have breakdowns, commit suicide and run away to have their babies in secret. Some sell them on the black market. Others merely do away with them.
Something to be proud of, eh?

 

[no1tovote4]

Gladly. A female who knows nothing about birth control or the bodily process involved in getting pregnant is ill prepared to handle a sexual situation. If she is a member of a deeply conservative family that places pregnancy on the same sin level as murder or other serious crimes, she will be too scared to seek help. She will also do anything possible to avoid letting anyone know she was pregnant.
This situation happens more often than you can imagine. You would be surprised at how many kids get themselves into similar situations and are deathly afraid to come forward. They have breakdowns, commit suicide and run away to have their babies in secret. Some sell them on the black market. Others merely do away with them.
Something to be proud of, eh?

While sneaking behind peoples backs to flush it the day before it was born is better? That there is shame associated with an unacknowledged pregnancy does not mean that it is morally superior to allow them to kill their offspring or that the legal killing of offspring at any level of development is superior to the value of life. So you believe that we should allow it legally because it happens at an earlier period of development, that child abuse laws should be based on the age of the child?

By this post I must assume you must believe that everybody on this Board except you also believes that Abstinence Only is the only way to go and that it also means to you that Parents who don't want others to teach their children about sex won't understand what a Prophylactic is and if they somehow beyond all comprehension do have such knowledge will purposefully deny their children all knowledge, magically, of them. That all persons who of one party fit nicely into your stereotype without regard to any idea that they might believe differently and that everybody on the site belongs to that Party which fits so nicely into your stereotypes?

To me it seems no different at all, I can see no valid moral difference between killing it the day before birth or the day after or months before the birth or months after for that matter.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

have been given the name..."Walking Eagle"...too full of shit to fly!

hey man, let's not tarnish the American Eagle with any reference to walking shit

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Gladly. A female who knows nothing about birth control or the bodily process involved in getting pregnant is ill prepared to handle a sexual situation. If she is a member of a deeply conservative family that places pregnancy on the same sin level as murder or other serious crimes, she will be too scared to seek help. She will also do anything possible to avoid letting anyone know she was pregnant.
This situation happens more often than you can imagine. You would be surprised at how many kids get themselves into similar situations and are deathly afraid to come forward. They have breakdowns, commit suicide and run away to have their babies in secret. Some sell them on the black market. Others merely do away with them.
Something to be proud of, eh?

As expected, your reasoning is lacking. no1 gave you an excellent answer why, but here are a few points:

First of all, teaching abstinence does not mean that teens have to be ignorant about sex in general and about the various protections available to them should they decide to engage in sexual activity.

Second, teens today are taught all about birth control (sans abstinence) so why are so many getting pregnant and killing and dumping their babies in garbage cans, etc.? It appears that your liberal sexual education is not helping matters.

Third, you equate teaching abstinence with social ostracism. This is an especially nasty lie from the left because it leaves teens with the idea that they have no CHOICE - except to engage in sex, followed by abortion of course.

Believe it or not teens are still afraid if they become pregnant because parents today are just as unhappy as during the days of abstinence when confronted with such a situation, no matter if they are liberal, conservative, religious or not. Most teens are not prepared to take care of a baby, so the responsibility falls to the teen's parents and most parents are not at all thrilled with such a prospect…even those parents who believe in rubbers instead of abstinence.

Fourth, conservatives (and not many libs) are fully behind providing alternatives to abortion for those who cannot or will not support unwanted babies. You will find they are also the ones who provide aid to teen girls who want to keep their babies but have no support from home.

Lastly, and the most obvious, if teens actually learned abstinence - and took it to heart - they wouldn't likely be getting pregnant in the first place.

 

[kurtsprincess]

If I were able to wave a magic wand, I would decree that anyone who kills a child shall suffer the same type of death.

End of story.

 

[hylandrdet]

As expected, your reasoning is lacking. no1 gave you an excellent answer why, but here are a few points:

First of all, teaching abstinence does not mean that teens have to be ignorant about sex in general and about the various protections available to them should they decide to engage in sexual activity.

Second, teens today are taught all about birth control (sans abstinence) so why are so many getting pregnant and killing and dumping their babies in garbage cans, etc.? It appears that your liberal sexual education is not helping matters.

Third, you equate teaching abstinence with social ostracism. This is an especially nasty lie from the left because it leaves teens with the idea that they have no CHOICE - except to engage in sex, followed by abortion of course.

Believe it or not teens are still afraid if they become pregnant because parents today are just as unhappy as during the days of abstinence when confronted with such a situation, no matter if they are liberal, conservative, religious or not. Most teens are not prepared to take care of a baby, so the responsibility falls to the teen's parents and most parents are not at all thrilled with such a prospect…even those parents who believe in rubbers instead of abstinence.

Fourth, conservatives (and not many libs) are fully behind providing alternatives to abortion for those who cannot or will not support unwanted babies. You will find they are also the ones who provide aid to teen girls who want to keep their babies but have no support from home.

Lastly, and the most obvious, if teens actually learned abstinence - and took it to heart - they wouldn't likely be getting pregnant in the first place.

Your fourth is absolutely wrong; liberals and conservatives have both worked together to find alternatives to abortion. The liberals are only guilty of continuing to allow abortion to be an option, whereas conservatives want the procedure to be made totally illegal, regardless of circumstances.

With the exception of that note, you're pretty much right on everything else!

 

[pegwinn]

Gladly. A female who knows nothing about birth control or the bodily process involved in getting pregnant is ill prepared to handle a sexual situation. This is a female who never attended school in the USA. Or she is a retarded mental midget.

If she is a member of a deeply conservative family that places pregnancy on the same sin level as murder or other serious crimes, she will be too scared to seek help. She will also do anything possible to avoid letting anyone know she was pregnant. I been watching the news and have yet to see stories about rampaging scared baby murdering quakers, Mormons, southern baptists etc. Sounds like a girl who spread her legs and isn't willing to take responsibility for her actions.

This situation happens more often than you can imagine. You would be surprised at how many kids get themselves into similar situations and are deathly afraid to come forward. They have breakdowns, commit suicide and run away to have their babies in secret. Some sell them on the black market. Others merely do away with them. Something to be proud of, eh? Nope. Something for the parents and educators to be ashamed of. Parents moreso than educators. Need to teach the kids at home that everything has a consequence. You do the deed, you deal with the consequences.

*

 

[William Joyce]

I love the spectacular gymnastics liberals perform in order to excuse child murder and blame it on "conservatism." It's high-flying, no-net derring-do. Amazing, truly amazing. Women are incapable of being independent moral agents, but only for this specific act. Otherwise, they should be crashing right through that glass ceiling.

 

[Gunny]

*Sounds like a girl who spread her legs and isn't willing to take responsibility for her actions.

BAM! End of story.

 

[sagegirl]

While sneaking behind peoples backs to flush it the day before it was born is better? That there is shame associated with an unacknowledged pregnancy does not mean that it is morally superior to allow them to kill their offspring or that the legal killing of offspring at any level of development is superior to the value of life. So you believe that we should allow it legally because it happens at an earlier period of development, that child abuse laws should be based on the age of the child?

By this post I must assume you must believe that everybody on this Board except you also believes that Abstinence Only is the only way to go and that it also means to you that Parents who don't want others to teach their children about sex won't understand what a Prophylactic is and if they somehow beyond all comprehension do have such knowledge will purposefully deny their children all knowledge, magically, of them. That all persons who of one party fit nicely into your stereotype without regard to any idea that they might believe differently and that everybody on the site belongs to that Party which fits so nicely into your stereotypes?

To me it seems no different at all, I can see no valid moral difference between killing it the day before birth or the day after or months before the birth or months after for that matter.

You ASSUME way too much......this response doesnt even make sense....you have managed to mix sex education, knowledge, morality, and stereotypes into a totally unfathomable combination. Makes me feel like you really dont understand these issues at all.
"To me it seems" is the best part. Thats the only part you got right. Its your opinion, others have a different opinion.....dont stuff your distortions on me, speak for yourself, not others on this board or elsewhere.

 

[no1tovote4]

You ASSUME way too much......

I am only going by your actual words, your response shows you have a stereotype of people on this board based in your unreasonable hatred of those who think differently than you.

this response doesnt even make sense....you have managed to mix sex education, knowledge, morality, and stereotypes into a totally unfathomable combination. Makes me feel like you really dont understand these issues at all.

That's the difference between feeling and actually understanding. It was plain that I was derogatory toward your idiotic stereotyping.

"To me it seems" is the best part. Thats the only part you got right. Its your opinion, others have a different opinion.....dont stuff your distortions on me, speak for yourself, not others on this board or elsewhere.

That is why I stated that "to me it seems" I use those words when giving an opinion. Your distortions are your own, I haven't stuffed anything anywhere, rather removed the filters you attempt to place on your own stereotype.

I see you have failed to ask my actual opinion on the topic at hand, rather ASSUMED it. Which of course points to the fact that the "sage" part of your User ID is seriously exaggerated and based on only your own inflated ego rather than any actual wisdom.

You fail to understand that there are different opinions between all of us on this board, and assume again that Abstinence only is what I propose as a solution, and assume that I would force a woman to be pregnant based on the fact that I don't like abortion. All of your assumptions are wrong and you have thereby made a fool of yourself. I will pause here while you attempt to remove your foot from your mouth and both objects from the out-only orifice.

Those that propose that sex ed should not be taught in the schools are not foolish enough to believe that prophylactics will somehow escape their children's attention was the simple point of my previous statement. You somehow believe that prophylactics would disappear from the shelves and nobody would have access to such a thing if Abstinence was taught in the schools as a way to avoid STD. That is an inane assumption. The children of people that would teach abstinence will also know about prophylactics, whether their parents train them in their use or not.

Those that propose teaching abstinence as a way to avoid STD are in different camps, in one camp they believe that teaching about the use of prophylactics gives implied consent, in another they believe that abstinence should be included in sex ed. I am in neither, I thought the way the teachers handled sex ed in my school was very well done.

I also believe that no woman should be forced into pregnancy. I just don't believe that killing the life within should be the goal in resolving such an issue. I believe that we should remove the fetus with the intent to save the life of the young developing human and ease restriction on adoption rather than simply have only one "choice" for women. At the beginning of the new science there would be many unfortunate deaths, but in time we would have the knowledge that allowed women actual choice rather than the truncated and simplified questionable behavior that passes for "choice" today where the woman must decide between killing their offspring or being pregnant.

 

[Gunny]

You ASSUME way too much......this response doesnt even make sense....you have managed to mix sex education, knowledge, morality, and stereotypes into a totally unfathomable combination. Makes me feel like you really dont understand these issues at all.
"To me it seems" is the best part. Thats the only part you got right. Its your opinion, others have a different opinion.....dont stuff your distortions on me, speak for yourself, not others on this board or elsewhere.

Odd .... makes perfectly logical sense to me. Perhaps it's YOUR viewpoint?