My problem with the tea party

[spectrumc01]

So then they will be fired.
Taxed Enough will have no problem looking for 3rd type candidate's if repubs and dems are not going to listen to the people who hire them, fire them and pay their salaries. Instead of the lobbyists. The people will demand to get this changed. Dems and Repubs work for the people not special interests.
If dems don't get this then the people will find a new party to replace them. They will be gone just like other party's have been gone in the past.

They thought that the best move at the time, was repubs, give them a chance because right now we the people really only have the 2 party system, but if neither party changes, the people will look for 3rd party candidates. It is working somewhat, because neither party would have ever talked about cutting spending.
To go to 3rd party will take some time so most want to change the representation that we have,now. They will vote out the incumbents and will vote for someone who is not endorsed by the party leaders.

For people like myself, the only things preventing me from being a tea party guy are:
1) no clear cut leader, who runs the show
2) no clear cut plan, generalities are not a plan
3) a conservative moral / social agenda, social agendas are not the governments job

I would vote for trump he seems to do all three. We wait and see if he keeps it up.

 

[peach174]

So then they will be fired.
Taxed Enough will have no problem looking for 3rd type candidate's if repubs and dems are not going to listen to the people who hire them, fire them and pay their salaries. Instead of the lobbyists. The people will demand to get this changed. Dems and Repubs work for the people not special interests.
If dems don't get this then the people will find a new party to replace them. They will be gone just like other party's have been gone in the past.

They thought that the best move at the time, was repubs, give them a chance because right now we the people really only have the 2 party system, but if neither party changes, the people will look for 3rd party candidates. It is working somewhat, because neither party would have ever talked about cutting spending.
To go to 3rd party will take some time so most want to change the representation that we have,now. They will vote out the incumbents and will vote for someone who is not endorsed by the party leaders.

For people like myself, the only things preventing me from being a tea party guy are:
1) no clear cut leader, who runs the show
2) no clear cut plan, generalities are not a plan
3) a conservative moral / social agenda, social agendas are not the governments job

I would vote for trump he seems to do all three. We wait and see if he keeps it up.

They don't need a leader. They are the voters.
They have a plan, get government out of our lives.
Get government back to constitution
I agree social agendas is not the governments job.

 

[peach174]

I want to hear what Trump has to say about getting rid of the shadow government and corruption.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What were the tea partiers before the tea party? This seems to be the biggest problem I have with the tea party people. Before the TP they were Republicans. It was Republican policy that lead to this mess we are now in. The example of eight years of GWB is what I use.

Now the Republicans are tied to GWB, and people are leary of the Republicans as they should be. The TP people have changed their name but have they changed anything else? They were all for GWB when it came to getting him elected and then elected again. GWB could do no wrong, even as he was expanding government, starting wars based on lies, giving tax breaks, and not paying for any of them. When GWB had destroyed the Republican name the Democrats moved in with Obama.

Rather than restoring the Republican name the just changed their name. Instead of taking responsibility for GWB and his policies they ran away and changed their name. What are they going to change their name to next when this experiment fails. As of now they claim not to have a leader, and operate in the general idea catagory. Shouting about cutting spending, and smaller government is great but without a leader to focus them and refine their message what good are they. The people they are leaving the enacting of their wishes to are the Republicans.

This is not an endorsement of the Democrats, Liberals, or Obama. Lord knows their solutions haven't been stallar so far, but they are not the Republicans.

My guess is that every single one of them were, and still are, human. If you have a problem with that your problem is not with the Tea Party.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What were the tea partiers before the tea party? This seems to be the biggest problem I have with the tea party people. Before the TP they were Republicans. It was Republican policy that lead to this mess we are now in. The example of eight years of GWB is what I use.

Now the Republicans are tied to GWB, and people are leary of the Republicans as they should be. The TP people have changed their name but have they changed anything else? They were all for GWB when it came to getting him elected and then elected again. GWB could do no wrong, even as he was expanding government, starting wars based on lies, giving tax breaks, and not paying for any of them. When GWB had destroyed the Republican name the Democrats moved in with Obama.

Rather than restoring the Republican name the just changed their name. Instead of taking responsibility for GWB and his policies they ran away and changed their name. What are they going to change their name to next when this experiment fails. As of now they claim not to have a leader, and operate in the general idea catagory. Shouting about cutting spending, and smaller government is great but without a leader to focus them and refine their message what good are they. The people they are leaving the enacting of their wishes to are the Republicans.

This is not an endorsement of the Democrats, Liberals, or Obama. Lord knows their solutions haven't been stallar so far, but they are not the Republicans.

Bush fooled the conservatives into think he was a conservative, Bush gave us obama Conservatives are fed up and because of mismanagement of both party's you get the tea party. We of the tea party are here to stay. don't like it? Change

Bush fooled you guys, but he didn't fool me, and that is my point. I jumped up and down trying to make you guys see him for what he was, but you refused to listen. Instead you helped elect him to a second term. Now you want me to believe your fed up? what happens when the next GWB rolls along? We can't afford another eight years of that. Before I hitch up to your wagon you need to do several things, the first is selecting a leader, the second is comming up with a specific plan of how to fix our problems, the last thing is to prove that you will stay out of social politics. Without a leader you are just a mob.

What plan does Obama have to solve our problems? It looks to me like you are so blinded by your hatred of Republicans that you are missing the detail that they are the ones with a plan, and all the Democrats are doing is talking about how bad it is, without offering a single alternative of their own.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bush fooled you guys, but he didn't fool me, and that is my point. I jumped up and down trying to make you guys see him for what he was, but you refused to listen.

Obama fooled you guys, but he didn't fool me, and that is my point. I jumped up and down trying to make you guys see him for what he was, but you refused to listen.

Look at what you offered as an alternative? Look at the name brand you offered? When you get burned by a product as bad as we got burned you become a little gun shy. As I stated before furhter back in the thread this is not an endorsement of the Liberals, or Democrats, or Obama.

The Tea Party did not offer McCain. You are bitching about the Tea Party at the same time you are equating them with the Republicans. Did you forget how the Republicans were complaining about the Tea Party working to get incumbent Republicans out of Congress because they were not conservative enough? Is your rant here actually against the fact that the Tea Party is actually accomplishing something, and you are upset because you think they are going the wrong way? If so, man up and say so. Don't be a coward, it just makes you look silly.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For people like myself, the only things preventing me from being a tea party guy are:
1) no clear cut leader, who runs the show
2) no clear cut plan, generalities are not a plan
3) a conservative moral / social agenda, social agendas are not the governments job

I would vote for trump he seems to do all three. We wait and see if he keeps it up.

I would laugh my head off if your post was not so pathetic.

1. The Tea Party does not have a leader because it is not about leading people around by their noses, it is about a group of individuals coming together to change a problem they see.
2. If you like plans so much please point out exactly what plan the Democrats have to deal with the economy.
3. Yet you support a liberal/progressive social agenda. I am a little confused about why you think it is fine to legislate a morality you like, but oppose it otherwise. In my opinion it is either always right, or always wrong.

 

[Wicked Jester]

What were the tea partiers before the tea party? This seems to be the biggest problem I have with the tea party people. Before the TP they were Republicans. It was Republican policy that lead to this mess we are now in. The example of eight years of GWB is what I use.

Now the Republicans are tied to GWB, and people are leary of the Republicans as they should be. The TP people have changed their name but have they changed anything else? They were all for GWB when it came to getting him elected and then elected again. GWB could do no wrong, even as he was expanding government, starting wars based on lies, giving tax breaks, and not paying for any of them. When GWB had destroyed the Republican name the Democrats moved in with Obama.

Rather than restoring the Republican name the just changed their name. Instead of taking responsibility for GWB and his policies they ran away and changed their name. What are they going to change their name to next when this experiment fails. As of now they claim not to have a leader, and operate in the general idea catagory. Shouting about cutting spending, and smaller government is great but without a leader to focus them and refine their message what good are they. The people they are leaving the enacting of their wishes to are the Republicans.

This is not an endorsement of the Democrats, Liberals, or Obama. Lord knows their solutions haven't been stallar so far, but they are not the Republicans.

So, you think all tea partiers are republican?

You think they all voted for Bush?

You need to educate yourself, and come back after you have.

 

[peach174]

So then they will be fired.
Taxed Enough will have no problem looking for 3rd type candidate's if repubs and dems are not going to listen to the people who hire them, fire them and pay their salaries. Instead of the lobbyists. The people will demand to get this changed. Dems and Repubs work for the people not special interests.
If dems don't get this then the people will find a new party to replace them. They will be gone just like other party's have been gone in the past.

They thought that the best move at the time, was repubs, give them a chance because right now we the people really only have the 2 party system, but if neither party changes, the people will look for 3rd party candidates. It is working somewhat, because neither party would have ever talked about cutting spending.
To go to 3rd party will take some time so most want to change the representation that we have,now. They will vote out the incumbents and will vote for someone who is not endorsed by the party leaders.

For people like myself, the only things preventing me from being a tea party guy are:
1) no clear cut leader, who runs the show
2) no clear cut plan, generalities are not a plan
3) a conservative moral / social agenda, social agendas are not the governments job

I would vote for trump he seems to do all three. We wait and see if he keeps it up.

Do you see what you wrote?
The tea party has no leader, it is called (freedom)
That is what America is all about, freedom
You have been so indoctrinated by socialism that you can't understand that a movement does not need a leader and organization. Liberals can't understand this.
As soon as you have a leader you lose your freedom and then you are told what to do (organized)
Having a leader and being organized puts you immediately under control and you no longer become an individual.
Tea party people all have different opinions and ideas (this is what our constitution and Americanism is all about) but the basic thing the tea party is, our freedom and inalienable rights of our constitution
Our Government has become the Boss of us,when it is suppose to be the other way around, the people are the boss of the government.

 

[Wicked Jester]

So then they will be fired.
Taxed Enough will have no problem looking for 3rd type candidate's if repubs and dems are not going to listen to the people who hire them, fire them and pay their salaries. Instead of the lobbyists. The people will demand to get this changed. Dems and Repubs work for the people not special interests.
If dems don't get this then the people will find a new party to replace them. They will be gone just like other party's have been gone in the past.

They thought that the best move at the time, was repubs, give them a chance because right now we the people really only have the 2 party system, but if neither party changes, the people will look for 3rd party candidates. It is working somewhat, because neither party would have ever talked about cutting spending.
To go to 3rd party will take some time so most want to change the representation that we have,now. They will vote out the incumbents and will vote for someone who is not endorsed by the party leaders.

For people like myself, the only things preventing me from being a tea party guy are:
1) no clear cut leader, who runs the show
2) no clear cut plan, generalities are not a plan
3) a conservative moral / social agenda, social agendas are not the governments job

I would vote for trump he seems to do all three. We wait and see if he keeps it up.

Do you see what you wrote?
The tea party has no leader, it is called (freedom)
That is what America is all about, freedom
You have been so indoctrinated by socialism that you can't understand that a movement does not need a leader and organization. Liberals can't understand this.
As soon as you have a leader you lose your freedom and then you are told what to do (organized)
Having a leader and being organized puts you immediately under control and you no longer become an individual.
Tea party people all have different opinions and ideas (this is what our constitution and Americanism is all about) but the basic thing the tea party is, our freedom and inalienable rights of our constitution
Our Government has become the Boss of us,when it is suppose to be the other way around, the people are the boss of the government.

Absolutely true!

The Tea party is a movement, made up of a mix of Repub's, Independents, and yes, conservative Dem's.

That's why I laugh when these people, liberal dem's in denial, call it a republican movement.

 

[The T]

What the hell, the Tea Party isn't taking responsibility for Bush, we just threw out a few entrenched Commie lites from the Republican party along with a lot of Commie Democrats in this last election. And we have giving a clear warning to Republicans, you don't get back to your principles, we will come after you in the next election.

So if that isn't taking responsibility for Bush and some the crap he caved in on then I don't what is.

The problem with Liberals-Democrats they don't hold their elected officials to any STANDARDS and just keep reelecting them over and over.

And interesting that those that were backed by the TEA Party did go to the Republican side...why? To CHANGE IT from within. The Old-guard Blue-Bloods, and the RINOS have been served notice that they are on probation.

 

[The T]

What were the tea partiers before the tea party? This seems to be the biggest problem I have with the tea party people. Before the TP they were Republicans. It was Republican policy that lead to this mess we are now in. The example of eight years of GWB is what I use.

Now the Republicans are tied to GWB, and people are leary of the Republicans as they should be. The TP people have changed their name but have they changed anything else? They were all for GWB when it came to getting him elected and then elected again. GWB could do no wrong, even as he was expanding government, starting wars based on lies, giving tax breaks, and not paying for any of them. When GWB had destroyed the Republican name the Democrats moved in with Obama.

Rather than restoring the Republican name the just changed their name. Instead of taking responsibility for GWB and his policies they ran away and changed their name. What are they going to change their name to next when this experiment fails. As of now they claim not to have a leader, and operate in the general idea catagory. Shouting about cutting spending, and smaller government is great but without a leader to focus them and refine their message what good are they. The people they are leaving the enacting of their wishes to are the Republicans.

This is not an endorsement of the Democrats, Liberals, or Obama. Lord knows their solutions haven't been stallar so far, but they are not the Republicans.

So, you think all tea partiers are republican?

You think they all voted for Bush?

You need to educate yourself, and come back after you have.

Indeed. TEA party folks are citizens not much unlike those that fought against Great Britain and King George...and they came from all walks of life.

 

[code1211]

What were the tea partiers before the tea party? This seems to be the biggest problem I have with the tea party people. Before the TP they were Republicans. It was Republican policy that lead to this mess we are now in. The example of eight years of GWB is what I use.

Now the Republicans are tied to GWB, and people are leary of the Republicans as they should be. The TP people have changed their name but have they changed anything else? They were all for GWB when it came to getting him elected and then elected again. GWB could do no wrong, even as he was expanding government, starting wars based on lies, giving tax breaks, and not paying for any of them. When GWB had destroyed the Republican name the Democrats moved in with Obama.

Rather than restoring the Republican name the just changed their name. Instead of taking responsibility for GWB and his policies they ran away and changed their name. What are they going to change their name to next when this experiment fails. As of now they claim not to have a leader, and operate in the general idea catagory. Shouting about cutting spending, and smaller government is great but without a leader to focus them and refine their message what good are they. The people they are leaving the enacting of their wishes to are the Republicans.

This is not an endorsement of the Democrats, Liberals, or Obama. Lord knows their solutions haven't been stallar so far, but they are not the Republicans.

Bush fooled the conservatives into think he was a conservative, Bush gave us obama Conservatives are fed up and because of mismanagement of both party's you get the tea party. We of the tea party are here to stay. don't like it? Change

Bush fooled you guys, but he didn't fool me, and that is my point. I jumped up and down trying to make you guys see him for what he was, but you refused to listen. Instead you helped elect him to a second term. Now you want me to believe your fed up? what happens when the next GWB rolls along? We can't afford another eight years of that. Before I hitch up to your wagon you need to do several things, the first is selecting a leader, the second is comming up with a specific plan of how to fix our problems, the last thing is to prove that you will stay out of social politics. Without a leader you are just a mob.

So, to be clear, are you saying that Obama is a step up from Bush?

If yes, please explain and be specific.

 

[code1211]

Bush fooled you guys, but he didn't fool me, and that is my point. I jumped up and down trying to make you guys see him for what he was, but you refused to listen.

Obama fooled you guys, but he didn't fool me, and that is my point. I jumped up and down trying to make you guys see him for what he was, but you refused to listen.

Look at what you offered as an alternative? Look at the name brand you offered? When you get burned by a product as bad as we got burned you become a little gun shy. As I stated before furhter back in the thread this is not an endorsement of the Liberals, or Democrats, or Obama.

As citizens, we can only vote for those who are presented. The "Two Party System" pretty much assures that we are limited to the evil of two lessers.

Enter the TEA Party. You don't need to sign up to be a member. In truth, if you did want to sign up, good luck with that. There's no organization to this thing.

I consider myself to be a member and if my guys don't toe the line, they're gone. There are millions of us waiting to see some results. So far, it looks a little grim for the incumbants, but they still have a chnace to redeem themselves.

If they haven't figured it out yet, we're mad as Hell and we aren't going to take it anynore.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Taxed Enough Already Party is the silent majority of voters who have been fed up with both parties
since George Bush Sr. What broke their silence and finally woke many of them up was the health care bill. It will cost too much and gives way to much power to the government to tell us what we can and can not do.
It is mainly middle class people who have been taxed way too much ( soaked is the word I use) and wants government to become smaller, more manageable, and fiscally responsible, and to change the tax system.
It consists of Republicans, Independents and Conservative Democrats.
The main stream media's reporting of them as mainly republicans, old and racist is an out right lie and spin. It's what the mainstream media does in order to control the publics view.
The liberals by the media and political party were able to silence the conservative voice since the 70's until now.
Conservatives will not become silent again.
Conservatives have just as much right to their political views as the liberals.
The majority of voters will not be silenced by liberal attacks, misrepresentation, spins or out right lies.
Most of the voters are sick and tired of being called names and made out to be stupid.
It is the uber left who believe that government must take care of the masses because the masses can not take care of themselves. Americans are fed up with this and they want their freedoms back.
The Majority of Tea Party's want to take care of our old, our disabled,and our poor. They just have a different point of view on how to do it and they will not keep their mouths shut ever again, so get over it liberals. Conservatives voices are here to stay and Liberals need to learn how to compromise with them instead of my way or the highway attitude.

Sounds nice.

So how come everything in 'reality' has to be tied to another tax loop-hole for the uber-wealthy and/or infringing on abortion?

 

[peach174]

The Taxed Enough Already Party is the silent majority of voters who have been fed up with both parties
since George Bush Sr. What broke their silence and finally woke many of them up was the health care bill. It will cost too much and gives way to much power to the government to tell us what we can and can not do.
It is mainly middle class people who have been taxed way too much ( soaked is the word I use) and wants government to become smaller, more manageable, and fiscally responsible, and to change the tax system.
It consists of Republicans, Independents and Conservative Democrats.
The main stream media's reporting of them as mainly republicans, old and racist is an out right lie and spin. It's what the mainstream media does in order to control the publics view.
The liberals by the media and political party were able to silence the conservative voice since the 70's until now.
Conservatives will not become silent again.
Conservatives have just as much right to their political views as the liberals.
The majority of voters will not be silenced by liberal attacks, misrepresentation, spins or out right lies.
Most of the voters are sick and tired of being called names and made out to be stupid.
It is the uber left who believe that government must take care of the masses because the masses can not take care of themselves. Americans are fed up with this and they want their freedoms back.
The Majority of Tea Party's want to take care of our old, our disabled,and our poor. They just have a different point of view on how to do it and they will not keep their mouths shut ever again, so get over it liberals. Conservatives voices are here to stay and Liberals need to learn how to compromise with them instead of my way or the highway attitude.

Sounds nice.

So how come everything in 'reality' has to be tied to another tax loop-hole for the uber-wealthy and/or infringing on abortion?

Tea party wants a fair or sales tax. They want the IRS gone.
And they don't want their taxes paying for abortion. Nothing about outlawing abortions.
And the brewhaha on planned parent hood applied to Washington DC only. Paid for with tax dollars.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Taxed Enough Already Party is the silent majority of voters who have been fed up with both parties
since George Bush Sr. What broke their silence and finally woke many of them up was the health care bill. It will cost too much and gives way to much power to the government to tell us what we can and can not do.
It is mainly middle class people who have been taxed way too much ( soaked is the word I use) and wants government to become smaller, more manageable, and fiscally responsible, and to change the tax system.
It consists of Republicans, Independents and Conservative Democrats.
The main stream media's reporting of them as mainly republicans, old and racist is an out right lie and spin. It's what the mainstream media does in order to control the publics view.
The liberals by the media and political party were able to silence the conservative voice since the 70's until now.
Conservatives will not become silent again.
Conservatives have just as much right to their political views as the liberals.
The majority of voters will not be silenced by liberal attacks, misrepresentation, spins or out right lies.
Most of the voters are sick and tired of being called names and made out to be stupid.
It is the uber left who believe that government must take care of the masses because the masses can not take care of themselves. Americans are fed up with this and they want their freedoms back.
The Majority of Tea Party's want to take care of our old, our disabled,and our poor. They just have a different point of view on how to do it and they will not keep their mouths shut ever again, so get over it liberals. Conservatives voices are here to stay and Liberals need to learn how to compromise with them instead of my way or the highway attitude.

Sounds nice.

So how come everything in 'reality' has to be tied to another tax loop-hole for the uber-wealthy and/or infringing on abortion?

Tea party wants a fair or sales tax. They want the IRS gone.
And they don't want their taxes paying for abortion. Nothing about outlawing abortions.
And the brewhaha on planned parent hood applied to Washington DC only. Paid for with tax dollars.

I remain skeptical. Optimistic, but skeptical.

 

[AVG-JOE]

What were the tea partiers before the tea party? This seems to be the biggest problem I have with the tea party people. Before the TP they were Republicans. It was Republican policy that lead to this mess we are now in. The example of eight years of GWB is what I use.

Now the Republicans are tied to GWB, and people are leary of the Republicans as they should be. The TP people have changed their name but have they changed anything else? They were all for GWB when it came to getting him elected and then elected again. GWB could do no wrong, even as he was expanding government, starting wars based on lies, giving tax breaks, and not paying for any of them. When GWB had destroyed the Republican name the Democrats moved in with Obama.

Rather than restoring the Republican name the just changed their name. Instead of taking responsibility for GWB and his policies they ran away and changed their name. What are they going to change their name to next when this experiment fails. As of now they claim not to have a leader, and operate in the general idea catagory. Shouting about cutting spending, and smaller government is great but without a leader to focus them and refine their message what good are they. The people they are leaving the enacting of their wishes to are the Republicans.

This is not an endorsement of the Democrats, Liberals, or Obama. Lord knows their solutions haven't been stallar so far, but they are not the Republicans.

So, you think all tea partiers are republican?

You think they all voted for Bush?

You need to educate yourself, and come back after you have.

Indeed. TEA party folks are citizens not much unlike those that fought against Great Britain and King George...and they came from all walks of life.

The TEA party is a bunch of LIBERALS?!?

Who knew!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...th-conservatism-america-was-born-liberal.html

 

[kiwiman127]

At least two posters on this board claimed that the Tea Party membership and supporters want government out of their lives and want small government.
Yet when push comes to shove,,,,,:

Entitlement Reform: Tea Party’s Sound and Fury Signifies Nothing

For starters, polls by the New York Times and Bloomberg have found that although a vast majority of Tea Party supporters favor smaller government, they don’t want cuts in their Medicare or Social Security, a contradiction perfectly captured in a sign at a Tea Party rally: “Keep the Guvmint out of my Medicare.” Indeed, the Bloomberg poll discovered that even though Tea Partiers dislike ObamaCare, they want Medicare to offer more drug benefits and the government to force insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. The upshot is that while the rhetoric on entitlements has become bolder during this election, the discussion about reform has become tamer.

Entitlement Reform: Tea Party’s Sound and Fury Signifies Nothing - Shikha Dalmia - Uncommon Sense - Forbes

Now that was last fall. Has things changed?


Read more on Newsmax.com: Poll: Tea Party Not on Board Medicare/Medicaid Cuts

The tea party is apparently not on the Medicare-Medicaid-cutting bandwagon, so reports The Atlantic Wire.

In a recent McClatchy-Marist poll, 70 percent of ‘tea party supporters’ strongly opposed cutting the healthcare plan for the elderly and indigent, compared to about 80 percent of registered voters.

Poll: Tea Party Not on Board Medicare/Medicaid Cuts

 

[code1211]

The Taxed Enough Already Party is the silent majority of voters who have been fed up with both parties
since George Bush Sr. What broke their silence and finally woke many of them up was the health care bill. It will cost too much and gives way to much power to the government to tell us what we can and can not do.
It is mainly middle class people who have been taxed way too much ( soaked is the word I use) and wants government to become smaller, more manageable, and fiscally responsible, and to change the tax system.
It consists of Republicans, Independents and Conservative Democrats.
The main stream media's reporting of them as mainly republicans, old and racist is an out right lie and spin. It's what the mainstream media does in order to control the publics view.
The liberals by the media and political party were able to silence the conservative voice since the 70's until now.
Conservatives will not become silent again.
Conservatives have just as much right to their political views as the liberals.
The majority of voters will not be silenced by liberal attacks, misrepresentation, spins or out right lies.
Most of the voters are sick and tired of being called names and made out to be stupid.
It is the uber left who believe that government must take care of the masses because the masses can not take care of themselves. Americans are fed up with this and they want their freedoms back.
The Majority of Tea Party's want to take care of our old, our disabled,and our poor. They just have a different point of view on how to do it and they will not keep their mouths shut ever again, so get over it liberals. Conservatives voices are here to stay and Liberals need to learn how to compromise with them instead of my way or the highway attitude.

Sounds nice.

So how come everything in 'reality' has to be tied to another tax loop-hole for the uber-wealthy and/or infringing on abortion?

The rate of taxes, to what those taxes are applied and how one may avoid them are all attempts at social engineering.

Any tax is a cost. Any "loophole" is derived from a specific activity. The "loophole" is a desired activity not of the taxpayer, but of the tax collector. As he "allows" you to "take advantage" of the "loophole", he is in actuality directing you to do his bidding.

Tax and tax "loopholes" are both tools of control. The collectiuon of money allows government to exercise control. The loopholes expose the goals of that control.

That you don't even realize this is evidence of the elegance of this control.