My plan for education

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Plus, the teachers and the administrators need to actually care about standards. An outlook which considers standards "unfair" is killing our nation.

This could be said to be true about any standards, in any form, in any occupation.

And I agree, our country is in dire need of standards and accountability, in a lot of respects.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
This could be said to be true about any standards, in any form, in any occupation.

And I agree, our country is in dire need of standards and accountability, in a lot of respects.

Yes, but this thread is about education. the people f'ing that up are liberals.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Breakfast:No

Class size: I believe this factor has been trumpeted overly by the union.

Trust me, rtwng, this is important. Smaller classes quite simply eqaul better quality education.

The real problem is the liberals in education who refuse to hold students to standards. For their various addled reasons. i.e. the standards are racially/socially/economically biased and therefore it's wrong to hold people to them.

Maybe so. Personally, I don't believe it is solely a problem with the "liberals". I've seen it from both sides. Hell, our entire society is becoming one where accountability be damned... regardless of political ties.

We also need to make it easier to be a teacher, but the union doesn't want to do this either. If you know something the kids don't and you can explain it, you should be able to teach.

Teaching is a natural function of being a human, education courses are not necessary.

I agree with this, to a point. Teachers are not made, they are born. Knowing something and being able to teach it are two entirely different things.

Some of the smartest teachers I've known have been the worst teachers. You have to be able to communicate and get down to the level of the learner.

I do not actually have a degree in education. My degree was in electrical engineering. I am a prime example of someone without educational training being in the classroom. Of course, you'd have to judge my effectiveness for yourself, but I believe I actually do a very good job of educating youngsters.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

What irks me tn_indy, is that to the typical lib nea groupthinker, the lack of standards and the outright villification of standards is not even on the radar; it's considered a thought of the vast right wing conspiracy. It didn't make acludem's list at all.

At least you can agree that perhaps it's relevant. But you're not a lib.

more funding is still their only answer.

 

[OCA]

New Age Avenger whats your excuse? For not getting an education that is? Are you blaming that on libs too? That would be a very liberal thing to do

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
New Age Avenger whats your excuse? For not getting an education that is? Are you blaming that on libs too? That would be a very liberal thing to do

I have an education. You're thinking of yourself again. Stop that.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
I have an education. You're thinking of yourself again. Stop that.

Nice comeback! What are you in the 4th grade?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by OCA
Nice comeback! What are you in the 4th grade?

Go eat a booger!

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Go eat a booger!

Another nice one, awesome!

 

[acludem]

Let me respond to a couple of points that were raised. First off, the teacher to pupil ratio is an average figure across the country. This statistic is not true of most schools in large metropolitan areas. The statistic is skewed by rural districts which tend to be losing students. Second, I challenge any of you who think breakfast is unimportant to eat a good lunch tomorrow. Then don't eat another good meal until the next day's lunch hour. Just have a couple of small bites. Then you will see what it is like for many poor kids. That free school lunch is the only decent meal they get. See how well you work when you are hungry. Then think about how much harder it would be to get through a morning at school as a child. Third, I realize that number 5 on my list was wishful thinking. Parents do need to be involved in their child's education. Teachers can only do so much. When parents don't care, don't see that the child does their homework, and don't make themselves available to meet with the teacher to discuss concerns it makes a teacher's job nearly impossible. Give teachers respect, access to workshops and continuing education opportunities, and a decent wage and you'll see how much better the school system will become. You will be able to attract top flight college students into the teaching profession.

acludem

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by acludem
I challenge any of you who think breakfast is unimportant to eat a good lunch tomorrow. Then don't eat another good meal until the next day's lunch hour. Just have a couple of small bites. Then you will see what it is like for many poor kids. That free school lunch is the only decent meal they get.
acludem

Acludem,

Having taught for 20+ years, I can absolutely say that there are lots of kids who only get good meals at school. I've personally had students in my classroom who were fed dog food at home by their parents (this was reported, of course).

Being conservatively skewed, I resent having to pay for lunches for other peoples' kids, but the liberal side of me realizes that it is a small price to pay for the humanity of it all.

That's why I'd like to see the free lunch program extended to all students, not simply the underprivileged. At least in this way, the working people would have their children fed as well.

TN

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Go eat a booger!

Man, you and Big D sure are kings of the comeback...lol.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Let's not generalize the legitimacy of our biological reliance on food to the NEA's reliance on increased funding without accountability.

It would be nice if teachers weren't smug and superior little libs who hold the values of parents in contempt. Except for tn_indy and 3 other science teachers, this is the case.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Let's not generalize the legitimacy of our biological reliance on food to the NEA's reliance on increased funding without accountability.

It would be nice if teachers weren't smug and superior little libs who hold the values of parents in contempt. Except for tn_indy and 3 other science teachers, this is the case.

rtwng,

How would you propose to judge accountability for teachers. Be specific. Explain exactly how you'd go about judging the effectiveness and therefore the quality of the education provided by one particular teacher.

Just to let you know, I plan to play devil's advocate here.... )

TN

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
rtwng,

How would you propose to judge accountability for teachers. Be specific. Explain exactly how you'd go about judging the effectiveness and therefore the quality of the education provided by one particular teacher.

Just to let you know, I plan to play devil's advocate here.... )

TN

Really, accountability for teachers is not my issue, teachers need to enforce strict standards on students. Social promotion needs to end. Dumbing down the curriculum so we get an "ceiling effect" needs to end. I understand though that it's a catch22 for teachers. The liberals at the top of the nea need to be replaced.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Really, accountability for teachers is not my issue, teachers need to enforce strict standards on students. Social promotion needs to end. Dumbing down the curriculum so we get an "ceiling effect" needs to end. I understand though that it's a catch22 for teachers. The liberals at the top of the nea need to be replaced.

rtwng,

I've read over and over on this board how liberals are always detailing problems without offering any solutions for those problems. You've been expounding for several days on how teachers' organizations (NEA specifically, but not solely) are so against accountability. I would think that you'd want to offer a solution to that problem in order to keep folks from putting you on the liberal side of things.



TN

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
rtwng,

I've read over and over on this board how liberals are always detailing problems without offering any solutions for those problems. You've been expounding for several days on how teachers' organizations (NEA specifically, but not solely) are so against accountability. I would think that you'd want to offer a solution to that problem in order to keep folks from putting you on the liberal side of things.



TN

Break the lib stranglehold on education. Dispute and discredit their ideas and assertions in an open and public forum. Humiliate them wherever and whenever they appear. That's just on day 1.

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Break the lib stranglehold on education. Dispute and discredit their ideas and assertions in an open and public forum. Humiliate them wherever and whenever they appear. That's just on day 1.

rtwng,

Accountability?

What you gave me was political gobbledy-goop. Give me some particulars.

Come on, rtwng, I'm looking for a good wholesome debate. I'm in the mood to argue......



TN

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by TN_Independent
rtwng,

Accountability?

What you gave me was political gobbledy-goop. Give me some particulars.

Come on, rtwng, I'm looking for a good wholesome debate. I'm in the mood to argue......



TN

Dude. READ. Break the lib stranglehold on education. Their anti achievement mindset is the problem.

http://www.rif.org

 

[TN_Independent]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Dude. READ. Break the lib stranglehold on education. Their anti achievement mindset is the problem.

http://www.rif.org

rtwng,

The question is a simple one. How would you judge acceptable achievement?

I'll give you some help. Here are a few, but not all, possible ways to judge accountability. Which would you prefer? Would you use several?

(1) Administrative observations: competent, qualified personnel judge a teacher's effectiveness.

(2) Standardized testing of students before and after a teacher has taught them the subject matter.

(3) Testing teachers for knowledge of subject matter they are teaching.

Come on, pick one (or two, or three) or give me your own. Its not that difficult to take a stand, rtwng.

TN