My plan for education

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by acludem, May 8, 2004.

  1. acludem
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    acludem VIP Member

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    This is how I personally would at least start to try and fix the American system of public education:

    1. Fix crumbling buildings - No one should have to go to school in a building that is falling apart. It is impossible to learn in a building that is coming apart all around you.

    2. See that every student, especially at the elementary level has had breakfast: This could be done very, very cheaply. I guarantee that if you offer Kelloggs or General Mills or Quaker a nice tax break, they'd be happy to provide cereal servings at a very low cost to schools. Dairies would do the same.

    3. Give teachers a pay raise, more respect and higher standards. Right now the average teacher in America makes, on an hourly basis, less than the guy flipping burgers at your local Mickey D's. This is just wrong. You can't recruit good people to a profession when the opportunity to make money is almost nill. Teachers houdl be making a decent wage. They should also be encouraged to continue their education and training through grant programs, and salary incentive plans. Once these are accomplished, then you can raise standards. I firmly believe that teachers want to and try to do well. Give the profession respect and a decent wage and you will begin to draw better people into it.

    4. Give control of the classroom back to the teacher. That means if a student is disruptive, the teacher has the right to remove them. That also means reducing class sizes so that teachers can more easily give extra help to a student who may need it, and to have time to deal with disruptive students one on one to try and find out what the problem is.

    5. Force parents to be involved in their children's education. Why should a teacher care about your kid's education if you don't? Parents should be legally required be involved. Schools with high parent involvement almost always perform better than schools where parents aren't involved.

    That's a start anyway.

    acludem
     
  2. Big D
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    Big D Guest

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    What would you do about this little problem?

    Illegal aliens’ cost to the American taxpayer is another matter. For example, the children of illegal aliens are currently being educated at American taxpayer expense because of the Supreme Court’s disastrous 1982 Plyler vs. Doe decision. The expense of this is high and disproportionate:

    An estimated 1.1 million school-aged illegal immigrants are living in the U.S. [Source: Michael Fix and Jeffrey Passel, “U.S. Immigrants—Trends and Implications for Schools,” The Urban Institute, 2003.]

    The U.S.-born children of illegals, technically citizens by virtue of the current misinterpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment, could easily be twice that number (my conservative estimate, based on the overall ratio of children to immigrants—see table.) That’s another 2.2 million.

    At $8,745 per pupil (the average annual cost of K-12 public education in the U.S.) the cost of educating illegals and their children comes to $29 billion ($8,745 times 3.3 million children).

    ESL, bilingual, and other immigrant-oriented programs can raise per-pupil costs by 15 to 25 percent. That pushes the cost of educating illegals to $36 billion.


    To put it another way, illegal aliens are imposing an additional cost amounting to $900 per American child (i.e. child of American-born parents) in the public school system.

    What about the total impact of immigration on education? More than one in five K-12 students are immigrants (legal or illegal) or the children of immigrants. We know this thanks to the Current Population Survey, a sort of mini-census taken each month by the Census Bureau. The survey asks respondents if they are immigrants and if their parents were immigrants—legal status unspecified—thus allowing us to isolate the impact of immigration on school enrollment.

    The October 2001 Survey shows:

    51.355 million children enrolled in K-12

    2.299 million foreign born children enrolled in K-12

    10.596 million children of foreign born enrolled in K-12

    K-12 education now costs $415 billion, or 4% of GDP. Based on the enrollment figures, immigrants must account for at least one-fifth of this amount, or about $85 billion.

    More importantly, immigration (legal and illegal) is responsible for virtually all the recent growth in school-age population. We can see this by comparing the CPS reports for October 1998 and October 2001. In that period:

    The total number of school age children enrolled in K-12 grew by 621,000

    Foreign born children enrolled in K-12 grew by 96,000

    Children of foreign born enrolled in K-12 grew by 601,000

    http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/educating_illegals.htm
     
  3. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    its not the governments job to feed the students breakfeast. its parents.
     
  4. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    ding ding.
     
  5. Moi
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    Moi Active Member

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    I absolutely agree that if you expect children to learn you need to have them fed properly and get parental support and involvement.

    I do not believe, however, that the government can or should require or compel them.

    Parents who care are already involved. Parents who care already provide their children with the essential meals. It has nothing to do with rich or poor. I know plenty of people with enough money to feed their children who think that Fruit Loops are a nutritious breakfast and that soda should be given to children.
     
  6. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Breakfast:No

    Parental Involvement is a good idea, yet it is something that cannot be quantified. I don't want government deciding what constitutes positive parental involvement.

    Infrastructure. As long as it's not a safety hazard and too hot or too cold. It doesn't matter.

    Class size: I believe this factor has been trumpeted overly by the union.

    The real problem is the liberals in education who refuse to hold students to standards. For their various addled reasons. i.e. the standards are racially/socially/economically biased and therefore it's wrong to hold people to them.

    We also need to make it easier to be a teacher, but the union doesn't want to do this either. If you know something the kids don't and you can explain it, you should be able to teach.

    Teaching is a natural function of being a human, education courses are not necessary.
     
  7. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Also, people should be able to opt out of the system and get their money back to educate their children how they see fit.

    I just heard the other day we're number 17 on the planet with math and science. That's sad, considereing we spend more than anyone else.
     
  8. Merlin1047
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    Merlin1047 Senior Member

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    Your solutions are nothing new. They are the same tired mantras liberals have been chanting for the last thirty years. The problem many libs seem to have is the inability to think outside the box which they themselves have designed. Liberal solutions ALWAYS involve more government control and your's are no exception. What is it with you guys that you seem to feel that you need to use government as a tool to run the lives of everyone in this country?

    Okay, let's look at item 1: "Crumbling"? Well, if it is, by all means let's fix it. But your statement is too vague. How many schools are "crumbling"? If they are, they're a safety hazard and they should be closed. But after some research, I can't come up with any statistics that show this to be a problem. Your assertion that students cannot learn in a substandard facility is patently false. Students can learn in a tent if they are motivated and if they have a teacher capable of teaching.

    Item 2: More government. Why don't we just have parents hand their children over to the public schools at age six and let the government feed them and raise them to age 18? A multitude of welfare assistance programs are available to families too poor to feed their children. PARENTS are responsible to see their children are fed. Government should step in only when it becomes obvious that parents are neglecting their offspring.

    Item 3: Throwing more money at the problem. The gross exaggeration you included regarding teachers making less than burger flippers is simply NEA math. They take the starting salary of a new teacher working for 8 - 9 months and compare it to the salary of a minimum wage worker working 8 hours a day all year long. Yes, a competitive wage is important, but without reforms to hold teachers accountable, higher wages simply serve to motivate incompetent teachers to stay on the job that much longer.

    Item 4: I almost fell out of my chair when I read this one. This statement, coming from someone with the nic of "acludem" is nothing short of hilarious. Good luck with this one. Let a teacher so much as say "boo" to some junior criminal in a classroom of a public school and a phalanx of aclu shysters will descend on that school to decry the abuse of the poor student's "rights". How do you think we have managed to get into this godawful mess that we currently enjoy? Two acronyms - ACLU and NAACP. The ACLU and the courts have tied teachers' hands regarding discipline. The NAACP ala Jesse Jackson, has proclaimed exams to be "racist" and that is largely how we have arrived at the social promotion standards that exist today.

    Item 5: And you libs have the balls to accuse conservatives of being fascists - HA!!!! Anyway, your premise doesn't wash with lib philisophy. Many schools are considering banning homework because the idiots who administer these institutions believe that students whose parents assist them with their school work have an "unfair" advantage over those students whose parents do not. When did school become a competitive event? I have been laboring under the misconception that students should learn the absolute maximum possible during their school years.

    The public school system is so corrupted by liberal adminstrators, the NEA, NAACP and ACLU that it is beyond redemption in its current form. The condition of public education is analagous to a gangrenous extremity. It must be amputated if the body is to be saved.

    SCHOOL VOUCHERS - that phrase abhorent to libs and the NEA is the way to save our education system. Private schools are currently proliferating as many parents see their children's education withering in the public school system. Private schools can impose rules like school uniforms and no students driving to school. Private schools can impose discipline by ejecting those students whose conduct is unacceptable. Private schools will have to pay their teachers a competitive wage in order to attract the best faculty. Private schools will have to produce what they claim or they will go out of business.

    That is not to say that public schools should be completely abandoned. They should become quasi disciplinary institutions for incorrigible students who have been expelled from private schools. The emphasis in public schools should be on discipline and education. The environment in public shools should resemble "boot camp". Public schools should be the last stop before prison for those unwilling to conduct themselves responsibly.

    So therein lies the fundamental philosophical difference between you libs and us conservatives. Libs always see more government as the first and last resort to any problem. Conservatives have faith in their fellow citizens and an unshakeable belief that the private sector at its worst produces better solutions than government at its best.
     
  9. Avatar4321
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    Avatar4321 Diamond Member Gold Supporting Member

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    Another point on the Breakfeast. Arent liberals attacking Americans for being too fat already? How is giving them more food going to fix the obesity problem?
     
  10. Big D
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    In l950, American schools were among the best in the world. However, vocal elements within our society demanded that the public schools take on a social engineering role as well as an educational one. Violent disruptions of American education were ordered by the Supreme Court for the purpose of breaking down racial barriers. For 30 years, American schools have diverted enormous resources into forced integration, quotas, and bussing operations. (Few people realize how expensive bussing is. Annual cost may run into tens of billions of dollars. In l990 California alone was spending $500 million per year on integration. Many school districts spend a quarter or more of their budgets on transportation. In Milwaukee alone and in a single school year, 30,000 staff hours were diverted into calculating the race of students to attend the various schools.) The results? Today's students rank at the very bottom worldwide in science and math, some 40% of American adults are functionally illiterate, and standardized test scores have declined steadily for both Whites and Blacks. Today the average White still scores 200 points higher on the combined SAT than the average Black. Americans spend more on education than any other country in the world and have the worst results. Massive White flight to escape racial zoning has reduced the tax base of every major American city. In l983, after nearly two generations of racial experimentation to promote equality, the research arm of the Dept. of Education could not produce a single study that showed Black children were learning appreciably better after desegregation.
     

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