My Feelings on the Swift Boat stuff...

[JIHADTHIS]

We live in a new era. The nineties aren't applicable. The Bush team lives in the Eighties, his team has a cold war approach to this problem. Even the reverse-domino theory they have about a free Iraq spreading democracy accross the Middle East is just another Cold War anachronism. We need fresh people, new ideas. We have a chance to get that with a Kerry Presidency. That isn't going to come from the Bush folks, that's guaranteed. Four more years of the last four years won't do any good. It may make you feel better when we're bombing more countries, but feeling good won't make the problem go away.

You know, I'm bored today. Otherwise I would stop banging my head against the wall (or replying to smirkinjesus, same thing). I like how you still have nothing to add about what this thread is about. Can you give 1 reason that Kerry is the man for the job that doesn't involve using Bush's name? Do you have anything to add about what the swiftvets have to say about your boy? Go vote for Kerry. That's your right. You're mind is closed.


I'm going to go pour another bloody therezza (a bloody mary with ketchup instead: Thanks LGF)

 

[smirkinjesus]

So what is the "root" cause?

The Islamic world is ignorant and backwards. Their governments are oppressive and they are taught to hate America from the day they are born. Because they are so ignorant and uneducated, their Religion fills the void with every increasing extremism that compounds the ignorance. They are poor, destitute people and extreme militant religion and terrorism offers hope to powerless people. And yes, we have exploited the hell out of them. I mean, your question is really unfair, there are many factors that cause this, not one.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

The Islamic world is ignorant and backwards. Their governments are oppressive and they are taught to hate America from the day they are born. Because they are so ignorant and uneducated, their Religion fills the void with every increasing extremism that compounds the ignorance. They are poor, destitute people and extreme militant religion and terrorism offers hope to powerless people.

I knew you weren't totally blind

And yes, we have exploited the hell out of them.

Uh, by buying their oil I suppose?

 

[smirkinjesus]

You know, I'm bored today. Otherwise I would stop banging my head against the wall (or replying to smirkinjesus, same thing). I like how you still have nothing to add about what this thread is about. Can you give 1 reason that Kerry is the man for the job that doesn't involve using Bush's name? Do you have anything to add about what the swiftvets have to say about your boy? Go vote for Kerry. That's your right. You're mind is closed.


I'm going to go pour another bloody therezza (a bloody mary with ketchup instead: Thanks LGF)

You want to make an issue out of the Swiftboat vets, led by Nixon's stooge O'Neill? Kerry served in Nam honorably, he came home and protested an evil war that he fought in. He spoke the truth at the Senate hearings. If Vietnam Veterans want to hate him for it, fine, they can vote for Bush.

Kerry was certainly an ambitous political creature back then too, and he played some politics with the anti-War movement. In my opinion, he was right to speak out against the war. I personally wouldn't have been running around with the anti-war hippies back then, but I see no problem with what Kerry did.

Their new cheeseball book from the Swiftboat Vets won't have an impact on the election, and if the fringe right groups keep pushing it with TV ads, it will most likely backfire. Why will it backfire? Because one man served and fought, the other did not. It's that simple. It's a mistake for Bush supporters to bring up Vietnam, even though Kerry's running on it. What else is there to say?

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

You want to make an issue out of the Swiftboat vets, led by Nixon's stooge O'Neill? Kerry served in Nam honorably, he came home and protested an evil war that he fought in. He spoke the truth at the Senate hearings. If Vietnam Veterans want to hate him for it, fine, they can vote for Bush.

Kerry was certainly an ambitous political creature back then too, and he played some politics with the anti-War movement. In my opinion, he was right to speak out against the war. I personally wouldn't have been running around with the anti-war hippies back then, but I see no problem with what Kerry did.

Their new cheeseball book from the Swiftboat Vets won't have an impact on the election, and if the fringe right groups keep pushing it with TV ads, it will most likely backfire. Why will it backfire? Because one man served and fought, the other did not. It's that simple. It's a mistake for Bush supporters to bring up Vietnam, even though Kerry's running on it. What else is there to say?

I see a big problem with what Kerry did and so do the vets who came home and were spit on and called war criminals. Kerry is about as much a war hero to me as Tokyo Rose. He's a waste of skin and will send this country straight down the toilet if he somehow manages to get elected.

 

[nbdysfu]

Originally Posted by smirkinjesus
The Islamic world is ignorant and backwards. Their governments are oppressive and they are taught to hate America from the day they are born. Because they are so ignorant and uneducated, their Religion fills the void with every increasing extremism that compounds the ignorance. They are poor, destitute people and extreme militant religion and terrorism offers hope to powerless people. And yes, we have exploited the hell out of them. I mean, your question is really unfair, there are many factors that cause this, not one.

Well, we weren't really in a position to deal with it until we were into the nineties. Bush Sr. started to remove the cold war alliances with GW1, but there were plenty of other pressing things with the USSR falling apart at an unsustainable rate and Democratic politicians at home blathering about a doomed economy. Slick Willie then ignored the oppression and continued to blather about budget defecits like he owned a Hardee's franchise.

You seem to be suggesting that we should turn our backs and let these people suffer under their rulers, which would be a return to cold war policy, and the policy of the clinton administration in regards to middle east oil relations.

That policy of nonaggression and treaties would do nothing to remove the environment you have so clearly pointed out as being the main culprit in creating terrorists. Perhaps it is in the U.S.s' short term oil interests, but it is not in the interest of the world.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

Admittedly, the whole Vietnam thing would NOT be an issue if KErry hadnt brought it up.

I agree. He's the one constantly mentioning it. If he's going to do that, he gets what he deserves when people mention some of the other stuff he had to say in 1971.

I draw the line on any questions of what he did in battle.

I don't. He said he committed atrocities and accused all veterans of doing the same. Now he says he's proud of his service. What am I supposed to believe?

 

[JIHADTHIS]

You want to make an issue out of the Swiftboat vets, led by Nixon's stooge O'Neill? Kerry served in Nam honorably, he came home and protested an evil war that he fought in. He spoke the truth at the Senate hearings. If Vietnam Veterans want to hate him for it, fine, they can vote for Bush.

Beautiful piece of spin, you are to be commended! His service is questionable at this point. If he wouldn't have kept harping over it, I'm sure it would have been a dead issue. I personally could give a shit about what he did or didn't do in some rice paddie in 1969. Since he has nothing else to run on, (like say his Senate record for the past 20 years) it is a testament to how useless he truly is. Oh wait I'm questioning his "patriotism" now HOW DARE I! Please keep drinking the DNC kool-ade, you wear it well.

Kerry was certainly an ambitous political creature back then too, and he played some politics with the anti-War movement. In my opinion, he was right to speak out against the war. I personally wouldn't have been running around with the anti-war hippies back then, but I see no problem with what Kerry did.

Speaking out against the war is his right. Testifying that US soldiers were commiting war crimes while "his band of brothers" were still "in country" is preposterous. No wonder their are many vets who are against him.

Their new cheeseball book from the Swiftboat Vets won't have an impact on the election, and if the fringe right groups keep pushing it with TV ads, it will most likely backfire. Why will it backfire? Because one man served and fought, the other did not. It's that simple. It's a mistake for Bush supporters to bring up Vietnam, even though Kerry's running on it. What else is there to say?

Again, the whole comparison of Bush to Kerry vis a vis military service is ridiculous. If service in the military is so cherished by you now, why was it a "non issue" when Clinton dodged the draft and Dole was a "war hero"?

Can't you see the blatant hypocrisy here? To say that "It's a mistake for Bush supporters to bring up Vietnam, even though Kerry's running on it." is assinine. KERRY IS THE ONE THAT BRINGS IT UP EVERY 5 MINUTES! The "fringe right" isn't running the ads, a group of vets are. Now you'll tell me that they are financed by some neocon, while overlooking the fact that Soros is pumping millions into 527's that do nothing but slander Bush. Your bullshit is apparent for all to see, so is Kerry's for that matter.

 

[tim_duncan2000]

Beautiful piece of spin, you are to be commended! His service is questionable at this point. If he wouldn't have kept harping over it, I'm sure it would have been a dead issue. I personally could give a shit about what he did or didn't do in some rice paddie in 1969. Since he has nothing else to run on, (like say his Senate record for the past 20 years) it is a testament to how useless he truly is. Oh wait I'm questioning his "patriotism" now HOW DARE I! Please keep drinking the DNC kool-ade, you wear it well.

I know what you mean. It pisses me off how some people are so quick to dismiss what is said by the veterans against Kerry (or worse, they call them names and make them out to be just a bunch of right-wing hatchet men), but then will turn around and gladly accept anything said by veterans who are not against Kerry.

Can't you see the blatant hypocrisy here? To say that "It's a mistake for Bush supporters to bring up Vietnam, even though Kerry's running on it." is assinine. KERRY IS THE ONE THAT BRINGS IT UP EVERY 5 MINUTES!

I don't know how so many people overlook this. Kerry is the one who keeps talking about it more than anyone.

 

[smirkinjesus]

I know what you mean. It pisses me off how some people are so quick to dismiss what is said by the veterans against Kerry (or worse, they call them names and make them out to be just a bunch of right-wing hatchet men), but then will turn around and gladly accept anything said by veterans who are not against Kerry.


I don't know how so many people overlook this. Kerry is the one who keeps talking about it more than anyone.

You guys just don’t get it. Here’s the story: A war is raging overseas. People are getting killed in horrific ways. Young men of privilege have a choice. They can choose to fight or they can choose not to fight.
John Kerry made the decision to go to war. He chose one of the riskiest jobs in the War. It is absolutely undeniable, that took courage. The enemy saw him in the flesh and shot at him, attempting to snuff out his life. He could easily be worm food in his early twenties. He could easily be nothing but one of thousands of names on the Wall in D.C.
Bush could not have been because he chose to stay home.
Draw a line in the sand. On the left, John Kerry; volunteered to risk his life, could have been killed in combat. On the right, George Bush, could not have been killed in combat.
It’s a crystal clear distinction. It’s an immutable rule that the man who chose not to fight does not question the service of the man who was willing to lay down his life. That goes for his surrogates as well.
Criticizing Kerry’s Vietnam service is simply assine. Americans are not that stupid. When regular Americans see those ads, they’re going to say, “But wait a minute, Kerry fought, he was shot at by enemy soldiers. Bush didn’t. Why in the world is he running this ridiculously hypocritical ad?” They won’t make the distinction between Bush’s ads and third party organizations, they will associate it directly to Bush. Bottom line, is this is a non starter for the Bush folks. It is an issue you simply cannot win on. Stick with the flip flopping thing, you were getting somewhere with that.

 

[Avatar4321]

Criticizing Kerry’s Vietnam service is simply assine. Americans are not that stupid. When regular Americans see those ads, they’re going to say, “But wait a minute, Kerry fought, he was shot at by enemy soldiers. Bush didn’t. Why in the world is he running this ridiculously hypocritical ad?” They won’t make the distinction between Bush’s ads and third party organizations, they will associate it directly to Bush. Bottom line, is this is a non starter for the Bush folks. It is an issue you simply cannot win on. Stick with the flip flopping thing, you were getting somewhere with that.

You are right. The American people arent stupid. They are going to see 36+ war heros questioning John Kerry's claims. They are going to see John Kerry and the Democratic party trying to sue them into silence. The people are going to start thinking.."What are these guys saying that John kerry doesnt want them to say? What is it about what they say that makes John Kerry want to attack their freedom of speech?" John Kerry did invite this scrutiny in the convention.

Also, people will know that President Bush volenteered to fly one of the most dangerous aircrafts in the military. He may not have been sent over, but simply training in it can be life threatening.

The people are also going to notice that John Kerry's entire argument to be president consists of he went to vietnam and he isnt George Bush. People are going to question why he isnt running off the record he has accumulated with 20 years in the Senate and his time before then in public office. They are going to look into it and see why John Kerry's record is so poor, how he voted to rise taxes every time he had a chance to, how he voted against the weapons programs that one the cold war, how if he had had his way we would have lost the cold war. They will notice how he misses half the votes in the Senate and one of the few he decides to show up for is to vote against banning partial birth abortions.

You are right, the American people arent stupid. We are rather smart. Which is why Bush will win in a landslide.

 

[insein]

You guys just don’t get it. Here’s the story: A war is raging overseas. People are getting killed in horrific ways. Young men of privilege have a choice. They can choose to fight or they can choose not to fight.
John Kerry made the decision to go to war. He chose one of the riskiest jobs in the War. It is absolutely undeniable, that took courage. The enemy saw him in the flesh and shot at him, attempting to snuff out his life. He could easily be worm food in his early twenties. He could easily be nothing but one of thousands of names on the Wall in D.C.
Bush could not have been because he chose to stay home.
Draw a line in the sand. On the left, John Kerry; volunteered to risk his life, could have been killed in combat. On the right, George Bush, could not have been killed in combat.
It’s a crystal clear distinction. It’s an immutable rule that the man who chose not to fight does not question the service of the man who was willing to lay down his life. That goes for his surrogates as well.
Criticizing Kerry’s Vietnam service is simply assine. Americans are not that stupid. When regular Americans see those ads, they’re going to say, “But wait a minute, Kerry fought, he was shot at by enemy soldiers. Bush didn’t. Why in the world is he running this ridiculously hypocritical ad?” They won’t make the distinction between Bush’s ads and third party organizations, they will associate it directly to Bush. Bottom line, is this is a non starter for the Bush folks. It is an issue you simply cannot win on. Stick with the flip flopping thing, you were getting somewhere with that.

Notice that Bush has commended Kerry for his service to his country. Its independent groups like this soldiers from Vietnam that have a problem with Kerry. According to your assinine theory, only combatants can question combatants. Therefore this should stand up.

I don't question a persons actions during war. I leave that to the guys that were there. I just wish we could focus on Kerry's assinine senate record. Bush's record as president speaks for itself. Taking action against a terror threat instead of sitting back another 4 years. Issuing tax cuts to bring the economy out of recession. The case is pretty clear the Bush has the country's best interests at heart.