my EZ plan to get US off of middle east oil & decrease unemployment

[JiggsCasey]

Oh...I understand. A majority of the peak religion wants the same thing, even if they have a different motivational basis. They really do want the world/society to be destroyed. Not necessarily so they can laugh at others about being right, but because of a massive inferiority complex. Their lives are disappointments...but they will just feel better if their imagined ability to grow a tomato will hold them in better stead in their post Apocalyptic vision of the future than a Hummer driving yuppy.

Something is missing with many of these people, some psychological component, and the only way to feel better about themselves is through the destruction of everything else.

Its Rapture, they are saved, the evil (everyone else who doesn't buy into their scenario of destruction) must die because they are not "Enlightened".

ROFLMAO!!!! FAIL!

Not even remotely accurate. But it is amusing watching you create a straw man that helps you feel better about your perpetual denial.

Project much?

 

[Zander]

After we are done giving the people all the free power they can use, we can give everyone $10,000,000 too!!
- it would be a massive anti- jobs program- nobody would have to work!!
-it would essentially be like giving everyone FREE money to sit around and fart all day thus killing all industry
- it would be a workers paradise where everyone is rich!!!

Voila, everyone's rich!! YIPPEE!!!!!

 

[frazzledgear]

it's a simple idea:

build enough new nuclear power plants per state to provide FREE POWER to all US citizens
-it would be a massive jobs program
-it would essentially be like giving everyone FREE 'GAS' to power an electric car thus killing the gas car industry

voila...problem solved

VOTE BEN MARBLE FOR PRESIDENT 2012!

'


If its FREE -who is paying the salaries of those who build it and those who keep it running? There is NO SUCH THING AS FREE. There is only sticking people with the tab upfront or in a convoluted, roundabout manner. When it is the latter, it will ALWAYS cost a hell of a lot more than sticking them with the bill up front.

 

[BenMarbleMD]

What you mean is someone else pays for it. Sticking the word free onto something is not free is a lie.

well a lie that gets us off of the middle eastern oil tit is better than one that keeps us on it ;-P

The lie does nothing but make you out to be uninformed. We are using their oil in order to startegically keep ours. WE have huge reserves.

no duh but that is no reason to want to GET OFF OF OIL bc oil is the fuel of the 20th century and this is the 21st...

 

[BenMarbleMD]

[/QUOTE]
If its FREE -who is paying the salaries of those who build it and those who keep it running? There is NO SUCH THING AS FREE. There is only sticking people with the tab upfront or in a convoluted, roundabout manner. When it is the latter, it will ALWAYS cost a hell of a lot more than sticking them with the bill up front.

all you naysayers lack vision...seriously use your imagination and know that if we build enough nuclear power plants (funded by the govt) then that is an instant economic boost bc it employs MILLIONS to build them so it is a JOBS PROGRAM. Then once built and we all get free power we have the long term benefit of no longer being dependent on the Islamic ahols for their oil. So yes our govt. would have to pay for it but I guess ya'll would rather them spend the $ bailing out Wall Street so the American citizens get NOTHING! Brilliant ideas run rampant around here....NOT!

 

[Old Rocks]

FREE energy from nuclear?

Yeah I remember that myth from my weekly reader back in the 1950s.

Still waiting for it.

Yep, I remember that, also. The promise was electricity to cheap to meter. And absolutely foolproof reactors. Nuclear accidents could not happen. Then came the real bill, and Three Mile Island.

I am for nuclear, but as a base only, until they can build them at a reasonable price per kw.

 

[BenMarbleMD]

FREE energy from nuclear?

Yeah I remember that myth from my weekly reader back in the 1950s.

Still waiting for it.

Yep, I remember that, also. The promise was electricity to cheap to meter. And absolutely foolproof reactors. Nuclear accidents could not happen. Then came the real bill, and Three Mile Island.

I am for nuclear, but as a base only, until they can build them at a reasonable price per kw.

50 years ago we didn't have the computer power to do it safely...now we do

 

[nraforlife]

it's a simple idea:

build enough new nuclear power plants per state to provide FREE POWER to all US citizens
-it would be a massive jobs program
-it would essentially be like giving everyone FREE 'GAS' to power an electric car thus killing the gas car industry

voila...problem solved

VOTE BEN MARBLE FOR PRESIDENT 2012!

you want a nuclear plant next to your house?

and do you have a way to safely dispose of nuclear waste?

i'll wait.

No problem for me. I live fairly close to one now.

As for the waste (which in weight & size is tiny) you reprocess the fuel rods to extract the still useable/valuable fuel (thats about 90 % of the problem) and the remainder you encapsulate in glass and bury in a salt dome.......BUT mark the location carefully because as science advances we will eventually find a use for the stuff.

 

[midcan5]

I solved this long ago.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/energy/56561-plowing-not-drilling.html


"Impossibility statements are the very foundation of science. It is impossible to: travel faster than the speed of light; create or destroy matter-energy; build a perpetual motion machine, etc. By respecting impossibility theorems we avoid wasting resources on projects that are bound to fail. Therefore economists should be very interested in impossibility theorems, especially the one to be demonstrated here, namely that it is impossible for the world economy to grow its way out of poverty and environmental degradation. In other words, sustainable growth is impossible." Herman E. Daly / Kenneth N. Townsend [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Valuing-Earth-Economics-Ecology-Ethics/dp/0262540681/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: Valuing the Earth: Economics, Ecology, Ethics (9780262540681): Herman E. Daly, Kenneth N. Townsend: Books[/ame]

 

[Catman]

Facts that I believe:
* Oil is finite, the longer we fail to plan not using it for our main energy source, the more costly it will
become.
* Money spent for oil that goes to the Middle East is insanity. We are giving our enemies the
means to spread terrorisim.
* Technology is far advanced from 'Three Mile Island'. Comparisons to Three Mile Island are
completely invalid.
* France is a net exporter of electrical energy produced primariarly by small prototype nuclear
plants. We need to learn from their decades of clean and safe nuclear use.
* Many small prototype nuclear plants with components that are on the same platform would be less
expensive than large one of a kind nuclear plant per KWH of energy produced.
* More than anything else, we must cut our dependency from the Middle East for Energy.

 

[mdn2000]

Of course we could recycle the spent nuclear fuel, in the process of recycling we will create electricity a second time from the same fuel, after the recycling we can then use the reprocessed fuel in a reactor to make more electricity, a third time with the same fuel.

LOL!!

The irony is that posters like RGR pretend it's US who don't understand the basic Laws of Thermodynamics. Then, allies of his post stuff like this above. Friggin classic.

Fuel "recycling" a myth, a French report involuntarily demonstrates - Fissile material

The irony is when I challenged you, Jiggs failed to provide any information other than links to graphs and you pretend to understand Nuclear.

I work inside Nuclear power plants, I have worked with the top names in the business, Westinghouse, Combustion Engineering, and Babcock and Wilcox, that is in the order according to the amount of reactors they built. The last company B&W is famous for Three Mile Island, you did not know this, I do.

I have been inside the containment building that encases the nuclear reactor at Three Mile Island, I have seen the fuel, not many people can say that. I have even inspected the Reactor head, less people can say this.

Jiggs, you dumb enough to not see when I am trolling, I was vague for a purpose, to see if anyone would bite with ignorance, in which you have.

Jiggs, you do not understand the basics of Nuclear Physics, that is the science of Nuclear power, if you want a discussion about Thermodynamics, great, but I was speaking of Breeder Reactors, the fact that you make a point about a different field of science indicates you are ignorant of Nuclear Science, Physics, whatever you wish to call Nuclear power.

I guess you believe the Manhatten Project was about Thermodynamics and not Nuclear Fission.

Nuclear Power, its easy, the entire supply of spent fuel can be recycled in Breeder Reactors, of course that is technology from the 1950's, imagine how much better that technology would be if our Energy Policy was to create energy, instead we invest in Geothermal, Wind, and Solar, complete failures.

Nuclear Waste, Recycle, Recycle, anything left over can be stored in one swimming pool on the site of the Nuclear Reactor. The entire life supply of fuel, a 100 years worth of spent nuclear fuel can be kept in one swimming pool.

Breeder Reactors, our energy failure.

 

[mdn2000]

Facts that I believe:
* Oil is finite, the longer we fail to plan not using it for our main energy source, the more costly it will
become.
* Money spent for oil that goes to the Middle East is insanity. We are giving our enemies the
means to spread terrorisim.
* Technology is far advanced from 'Three Mile Island'. Comparisons to Three Mile Island are
completely invalid.
* France is a net exporter of electrical energy produced primariarly by small prototype nuclear
plants. We need to learn from their decades of clean and safe nuclear use.
* Many small prototype nuclear plants with components that are on the same platform would be less
expensive than large one of a kind nuclear plant per KWH of energy produced.
* More than anything else, we must cut our dependency from the Middle East for Energy.

Oil and everything else on Earth is finite, what is even more finite is all the natural resources used to build Solar and Wind power plants. We are better off using the World's oil supply before depleting our own. Our money and our control is not as insane as letting the thugs of the World take control of the Middle Eastern oil.

France, the only thing we can learn from France is that they only have Nuclear power, they had no choice. Technology, seems there are an awful lot of French reactors that are Westinghouse reactors, I do not know the number, I would bet its over 50% though. Technology wise we can learn nothing from French commercial reactors.

Three Mile Island, nice plant, not a Westinghouse plant, of a hundred reactors in the USA only Eight or Nine are B & W "Once Through" pressurized water reactors, less than ten percent, and considering Three Mile Island is still operating, I think its a great example of a great design. Its a great plant, I loved working there. Lots of good memories, except of course for the Nazi Union thug Foreman.

TMI, Three Mile Island Unit two is shut down, an accident caused by human error, Unit one is still operating, TMI happened under the Peanut Farmer's watch, Jimmy Carter. Despite Carter the design contained and stopped a disaster.

The only thing expensive in building a Nuclear reactor is the litigation brought on by fear mongering environmentalist lawyers, activisist, and over bearing government regulation. Something Wind and Solar are immune from due to the same government waiving the regulations.

The World has much to learn from of us, if we can get the government out of our way.

Above all else, we must continue to use the oil of the Middle East, its in our best interest, I am tired of the call for us to concede every technology we develop, I am tired of giving everything to the world, from Television to Computers, now we are told we must give up our leadership in World Wide Oil Production. It is short sighted to have a policy dictating we give our hard work in developing the worlds oil fields to foreign, state controlled-oil production. Whats next, shift our food producton to India and China and let us starve?

 

[mdn2000]

I was more right than I knew, I should known this off the top of my head, a hundred percent Westinghouse design. So the French learned and were helped by Westinghouse. Seems we could learn something from Westinghouse and not General Electric.

Differents types of nuclear reactors: light water reactor (REP or PWR), rapid neutron reactor (RNR) and heavy water reactor

All current French reactors are pressurised water reactors, (PWR, or REP in France), of American design (Westinghouse). In this type of reactor, water is used as the heat transport fluid and the moderator fluid. This technology (we speak of a line of reactors) represents 63% of world production capacity of nuclear electricity (80% in Europe).

 

[Catman]

MDN2000...we mostly agree on all points....the over riding factor is we have to build more small nuclear electrical energy producing plants. It is imperative for our future. Alternative energy is intersting, but it simply is not the answer.

 

[whitehall]

Nuclear energy is a good idea but it ain't free either. Oil runs the world and you lefties know it. The longer democrats keep the greatest Country in the world from being independent of foreign oil the closer we will come to the democrat/socialist dream of the collapse of capitalism and the US.

 

[mdn2000]

MDN2000...we mostly agree on all points....the over riding factor is we have to build more small nuclear electrical energy producing plants. It is imperative for our future. Alternative energy is intersting, but it simply is not the answer.

Small plants where needed, nuclear power for cities such as Los Angeles will require a dozen big Nuclear power plants.

California needs big Nuclear power plants to pump water and to extract oil from the ground.

The United States of America needs to quadruple our use of energy, we need energy to fuel large industry, like the steel industry, fiberglass production, you name the industry we need the energy.

It is pure stupidity not to allow this country of ours to grow.

One, its the only way out of debt.
Two, I am tired of junk made in China or any other third world hell hole.
Three, small business always fed off large industry.

The next financial collapse is because of going GREEN. Watch, California is bankrupt and what is our policy, expensive energy which drives up the cost of fresh produce, meat, anything brought through California. Everything is more expensive because our giant failing government is incompetent. The wind cannot even pump water, not even 1% of our energy used to pump water can be supplied with alternative energy.

How much more can we afford to pay, from taxes, to food costs, to energy costs. Its all related, they are all controlled by governments.

Our country needs a huge leap forward, which will take us to forty years ago, Detroit was the sixth largest economy in the world, today they could not supply the energy to supply a tenth of the industry that was once in Detroit.

The future could be here now, if our new congress made energy and no tax the priority.

The technology is our design, the components all made overseas. Westinghouse AP1000, being built in China as we speak, the world will teach China how to build and run Nuclear Power plants, four to begin.

The Energy Blog: Westinghouse/Shaw to Build $8 Billion in Nuclear Plants in China

China National Nuclear Corp. selected the Westinghouse/Shaw consortium to build four nuclear reactors for an estimated US$8 billion, the largest International nuclear contract in history. The 1.1 gigawatt plants will use Westinghouse's advanced AP1000 design, which was only fully certified by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission last year.

China's order is part of more than $200 billion forecast to be spent worldwide on nuclear power by 2030, according to the Paris-based International Energy Agency, an adviser to 26 of the world's largest energy users. A surge in oil and natural-gas prices and concern that the carbon dioxide released by burning fossil fuels leads to global warming are driving the revival. Beijing plans to spend some 400 billion yuan ($50 billion) on building around 30 new nuclear reactors by 2020, raising its installed nuclear capacity to 40 gigawatts -- nearly enough to power Spain.

This reactor incorporates the incorporates the following features:

• Passive reactor core cooling system
• Modular construction to reduce costs and delivery time
• Major reduction in safety related pumps, valves, piping and
electrical components
• Duplication of many components from existing power plants
• 60 year operating life

The AP1000 design uses passive safety systems to enhance the safety of the plant and to satisfy the Nuclear Regulatory Commission’s (NRC) safety criteria. These systems use only natural forces, such as gravity, natural circulation and compressed gas. No pumps, fans, diesels, chillers, or other rotating machinery are used in the passive safety sub-systems. These passive safety systems result in increased plant safety and can also significantly simplify plant systems, equipment and operation.

Simplification of plant systems, combined with increased plant operating margins, reduces the actions required by the operator. The AP1000 has 50 percent fewer valves, 83 percent less piping, 87 percent less control cable, 35 percent fewer pumps and 50 percent less seismic building volume than a similarly sized conventional plant. These reductions in equipment and bulk quantities lead to major savings in plant costs and construction schedules

 

[mdn2000]

it's a simple idea:

build enough new nuclear power plants per state to provide FREE POWER to all US citizens
-it would be a massive jobs program
-it would essentially be like giving everyone FREE 'GAS' to power an electric car thus killing the gas car industry

voila...problem solved

VOTE BEN MARBLE FOR PRESIDENT 2012!

TANSTAAFL

Who is supposed to pay for all those free power plants and the free maintenance and refueling needed to keep them running?

Industry, which until we shipped manufacturing overseas was the number one consumer of energy, may still be the largest consumer. Large customers pay big bills for power. That is why big power plants are profitable to build. Industry will not make electricity free but having large amounts of power available will reduce the cost of everything, even electricity.

 

[signelect]

It is amazing that people still believe that things are free. Nothing if free, someone has to pay for it. That has been the problem for the past two years and unemployment has doubled and the debt tripled. So much for free. the way we get of middle east oil is to use our own, we have plenty but we do have to drill for it on land and the ocean. We can't wish it out of the ground. Wake up Mr Free, what a bubble you live in.

 

[mdn2000]

It is amazing that people still believe that things are free. Nothing if free, someone has to pay for it. That has been the problem for the past two years and unemployment has doubled and the debt tripled. So much for free. the way we get of middle east oil is to use our own, we have plenty but we do have to drill for it on land and the ocean. We can't wish it out of the ground. Wake up Mr Free, what a bubble you live in.

The Oil we get from the Middle East is great oil we should use to the last drop. In the short term its much cheaper. We should pressure and overthrow the tyrants which is pretty much all the leaders in the Middle East but that aside Middle Eastern oil cost less to refine.

Middle Eastern offers the greatest profit because its the best oil, that is the hard fact. We should use the best oil in the world, it produces the greatest benifit and we are the fairest when it comes to use this resource.

I say we double our Middle Eastern imports. Force Canada to consume thier heavy sulpher laden crude.

I say lets get us off the Canadian addiction, quite buying Honda Civics, that is foreign addiction that is hurting us.

Chevy Impala, another Canadian foriegn addiction that we do not benifit from.

I would like to end our addiction to products from China.

I would like to end our addiction of electronic components made overseas like in Taiwan or Japan.

So many addiction that hurt us and people focus on the most benificial, Oil.

 

[georgeob1]

FREE energy from nuclear?

Yeah I remember that myth from my weekly reader back in the 1950s.

Still waiting for it.

Yep, I remember that, also. The promise was electricity to cheap to meter. And absolutely foolproof reactors. Nuclear accidents could not happen. Then came the real bill, and Three Mile Island.

I am for nuclear, but as a base only, until they can build them at a reasonable price per kw.

The capital cost of new nuclear powerplants is, per KW Hr of power produced about half that of wind turbine stations. Todays 30+ year old nuclear powerplants are, apart from hydroelectric plants, our cheapest sources of electrical power - about 20% less than coal plants.