Must See: President Obama gets Pwned by Rep. Paul Ryan at Health Care Summit. (Video)

[hboats]

You could play that game forever. Here's one that even better:

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late

"You guys killed my daughter," the diminutive San Fernando Valley real estate agent declared at the lobby security desk. "I want an apology." (17 year old daughter denied surgery - died)
What she got was something quite different.
Cigna employees, looking down into the atrium lobby from a balcony above, began heckling her, she said, with one of them giving her "the finger."

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late - Los Angeles Times

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Number one cause of bankruptcy - medical bills

----------------------------------------------------

Admit it. Republicans don't give a hoot about American citizens. They care more for insurance companies that stand between doctors and patients. Companies that made 12 billion last year by dropping 2.7 million Americans.

To defend that is just odious. Awful and odious. What kind of people are Republicans? They can't be real citizens. How is that possible?

"Play the game forever"? Really?

How many wealthy American's run to Canada for life saving surgery they can't get in the U.S. every year? Did you even read the link to see how many Canadian women died of cancer that did not have too?

I will "admit" this, tragic things happen in every system ever developed. They are all human creations after all.

However there are aspects of our health care (and more free economy in general) that sadly can not ever be measured in a tit for tat race. Every year American medical technology improves faster than anywhere else on earth. Every year America developes more life saving drugs than anyone. Every year America develops more life saving procedures than anywhere else on earth. Why? We know American's are not superior to other people, our educational system is not as good as most (pre-college... pre-mostly-free market) and we know there is no such thing as a superior "race" of people. It's our system and our freedoms and nothing more.

No one else can keep up with our level of research funding and inovation because no one else has the capital we have. Why? Because their taxes are too high and their regulation is too stringent. Way to much of their money goes to the wealfare statism of socialist policy. They are all equal in their home countries (not counting the political class) but they are all equaly inferior.

The tragedy is not that a handful of Americans die due to lack of public option or that many in other "Western" countries die due to excess of public options. The tragedy (to me) is what could Europe be developing (new drugs, methods, technology) that might save countless future lives if they were more free?

It's the classic "unseen hand" the "rising tide that lifts all boats". Look how far medicine has come in America in the last 50 years. What if Europe was running at our pace too? What if China was? The whole world even? The only thing holding the rest of the world back is their backwards-ass government philosophies. In light of all we know, how insane is it that half our government is now tyring to follow the lead of the backwards world rather than trying to lead everyone else toward our vastly better system?

Why should "wealthy Americans" run to Canada? They're "wealthy". They can afford health care.

So if you aren't wealthy, then what?

Average cost to an emergency room is over $1000. If you are between 45 and 65, it's over $1500. Average cost of one day in hospital is $4,700 and that doesn't include X-rays and other fees. Who pays for all that if someone doesn't have insurance? Come on now, think it through. How does that get paid for? Why won't Republicans answer these questions? Why?

And yet the answer is to fine anyone who doesn't want health insurance $5,000 a year? Not just a flat $5,000 and then you're done, no $5,000 a year. Do you know the statistics of how many people the Democrats are claiming in their uninsured numbers actually have access to health insurance, but don't take advantage of it?

Rick

 

[FireGod]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Yeah...we "fear" we are going to lose our Country through bankruptcy and the total meltdown that will follow. This Congress should be working on ideas to save us from all this; not trying to find more ways to push the national debt to $14 trillion and more.

if you don't want to be bankrupt...fix health care.

in 10 years, 50 cents of every dollar of our GDP will be spent on health coverage. Its costs increase at rates far above and beyond the rate of inflation, with less efficient delivery than in any other civilized country.

50% of bankruptcies filed in this country are due to unanticipated medical expenses.

And your point? If you get hurt pay for it WITH YOUR HOUSE IF YOU NEED TO. You don't have a house sell your car.

You don't have a house or car then do not get hurt or sick it is just that simple remember we have the best health care in the world that money can buy. If you can not afford it then feel free to die. NOBODY GIVES A FUCK about life changing circumstances, it is on you to plan for those.

Give it another 50 years or so under the current system and there will be no more Insurance companies because they will have killed off all their customers. Then maybe our kids can start the cycle all over again.

 

[Vel]

You could play that game forever. Here's one that even better:

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late

"You guys killed my daughter," the diminutive San Fernando Valley real estate agent declared at the lobby security desk. "I want an apology." (17 year old daughter denied surgery - died)
What she got was something quite different.
Cigna employees, looking down into the atrium lobby from a balcony above, began heckling her, she said, with one of them giving her "the finger."

Insurer's agreement to cover surgery comes too late - Los Angeles Times

---------------------------------------------------

Number one cause of bankruptcy - medical bills

----------------------------------------------------

Admit it. Republicans don't give a hoot about American citizens. They care more for insurance companies that stand between doctors and patients. Companies that made 12 billion last year by dropping 2.7 million Americans.

To defend that is just odious. Awful and odious. What kind of people are Republicans? They can't be real citizens. How is that possible?

"Play the game forever"? Really?

How many wealthy American's run to Canada for life saving surgery they can't get in the U.S. every year? Did you even read the link to see how many Canadian women died of cancer that did not have too?

I will "admit" this, tragic things happen in every system ever developed. They are all human creations after all.

However there are aspects of our health care (and more free economy in general) that sadly can not ever be measured in a tit for tat race. Every year American medical technology improves faster than anywhere else on earth. Every year America developes more life saving drugs than anyone. Every year America develops more life saving procedures than anywhere else on earth. Why? We know American's are not superior to other people, our educational system is not as good as most (pre-college... pre-mostly-free market) and we know there is no such thing as a superior "race" of people. It's our system and our freedoms and nothing more.

No one else can keep up with our level of research funding and inovation because no one else has the capital we have. Why? Because their taxes are too high and their regulation is too stringent. Way to much of their money goes to the wealfare statism of socialist policy. They are all equal in their home countries (not counting the political class) but they are all equaly inferior.

The tragedy is not that a handful of Americans die due to lack of public option or that many in other "Western" countries die due to excess of public options. The tragedy (to me) is what could Europe be developing (new drugs, methods, technology) that might save countless future lives if they were more free?

It's the classic "unseen hand" the "rising tide that lifts all boats". Look how far medicine has come in America in the last 50 years. What if Europe was running at our pace too? What if China was? The whole world even? The only thing holding the rest of the world back is their backwards-ass government philosophies. In light of all we know, how insane is it that half our government is now tyring to follow the lead of the backwards world rather than trying to lead everyone else toward our vastly better system?

Why should "wealthy Americans" run to Canada? They're "wealthy". They can afford health care.

So if you aren't wealthy, then what?

Average cost to an emergency room is over $1000. If you are between 45 and 65, it's over $1500. Average cost of one day in hospital is $4,700 and that doesn't include X-rays and other fees. Who pays for all that if someone doesn't have insurance? Come on now, think it through. How does that get paid for? Why won't Republicans answer these questions? Why?

rdean.. why don't you tell the board exactly HOW the Obamacare bill will LOWER that $4,700 per day price. If you can't, then please just admit that the Dem bill isn't designed to lower costs but is just another way to redistribute wealth via "who pays" and is designed to allow the government a bigger hand in deciding who has to provide for whom.

 

[Bern80]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Then it will be easy for you to point for us exactly where he is wrong.

 

[slackjawed]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Then it will be easy for you to point for us exactly where he is wrong.

yes, I would be interested in hearing that as well. The fact is, during the meeting Ryan was reading from the president's proposals, as well as the senate bill. The president chided him for it, and accused him of bringing the bill for theatrical purposes. All that said to me was that the president didn't know what he was talking about, and came to the meeting unprepared.

 

[Vel]

Ryan demonstrated that he is a toady spouting pre-rehearsed talking points. He obviously has no clue over what is in the bill and is spouting Republican fear rhetoric

Then it will be easy for you to point for us exactly where he is wrong.

yes, I would be interested in hearing that as well. The fact is, during the meeting Ryan was reading from the president's proposals, as well as the senate bill. The president chided him for it, and accused him of bringing the bill for theatrical purposes. All that said to me was that the president didn't know what he was talking about, and came to the meeting unprepared.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the Obama supporters to come back to this thread with details. Details don't matter under the current Dem agenda.

 

[hboats]

Then it will be easy for you to point for us exactly where he is wrong.

yes, I would be interested in hearing that as well. The fact is, during the meeting Ryan was reading from the president's proposals, as well as the senate bill. The president chided him for it, and accused him of bringing the bill for theatrical purposes. All that said to me was that the president didn't know what he was talking about, and came to the meeting unprepared.

Don't hold your breath waiting for the Obama supporters to come back to this thread with details. Details don't matter under the current Dem agenda.

I agree, only I would substitute your use of the word "details" with "truth."

Rick

 

[Zander]

Please keep telling everyone that.

Yep !

The Obamarrhoidal Idiot feels that if he REPEATS something long enough......it will change.

I point out that your argument is factually incorrect, and I become an Obamarrhoidal Idiot. Gotta love it.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to fundamentally oppose the reform, but I never hear them. I could probably make a better argument for your side than you could.

It reduces the deficit. It does not fund abortions. It does not cover illegal aliens. It is not a "Government takeover" of healthcare, In fact it's far from it. I'm not 100% in love with the bill, much like about 1/2 of the people who "Oppose," I don't think it goes far enough! But yes, when you make arguments that are simply and provably false, I'm going to show my Obamarrhoidal side.

It does not reduce the deficit unless you are a willing to go without health care for 4 of every 10 years. The feds are going to collect taxes for 4 years before ANY benefits kick in. The feds will have collected 10 years of taxes to pay for only 6 years of benefits. It will create a massive entitlement that will ultimately bankrupt the country. Do some research and you'll understand the legislation, until then you are sounding silly. We can fix health care without creating a massive entitlement.

 

[Christopher]

See that? You're getting better. "I oppose the bill because it raises certain taxes." That's legitimate! But "It increases the deficit" is flatly false.

Seriously, I gotta go. See yas later.

Actually it's flatly false if you just look at the first sentence of that paragraph, but when you read the whole paragraph you find that it in fact is not flatly false. You find that they're trying to use smoke and mirrors to make it look like the deficit will be reduced, when in fact it will have the exact opposite effect. Which is in fact what Ryan was pointing out yesterday when Obama accused him of using "talking points." What Obama calls "talking points" is exactly what they were supposed to be there yesterday to do. Discuss the differences on either side of the aisle and try to find some kind of compromise, but did they? No, because Obama used the "talking points" argument to effectively shut down any discussion and turn the meeting back over to the Democrats who were there for no other reason than to read sob story letters and recite sob story phone calls from people who don't realize that there are already programs set up to get what they're complaining about.

I got it, instead of this health care reform, lets spend a fraction of what this bill will cost and educate these people about the programs that are already out there that they can take advantage of to get their dentures so that they can stop wearing the dentures that they took from their dead sister. (This was said in sarcasm, believe me, there is a need for reform, just not the kind of reform that this bill promotes.)

Rick

Exactly, using budget numbers only until 2019 is cherry-picking financial data to support a partisan point. Calling an objection to that a 'talking point' is simply SOP for Obama because he knows that the program would increase the deficit after that, and simply wanted to shut down the opposition. In my opinion, he not only did not look presidential engaging in such tactics, he shamed the presidency by doing so.
If the HC bill was a program that was going to end in 2019, then it would be legitimate in cutting the study off at that point. However, since it continues well past that date, then a real honest assessment would include a timeframe well past 2019. A real honest assessment would not cherry pick data from a time frame where taxes are collected for 4 years before any benefits are paid out.
For this simple reason the claim that the current bill is deficit neutral is false, simply because it is based on false premises. There are executives from enron that were prosecuted for engaging in the same type of financial accounting practices.

Yes, it is "smoke and mirrors", just as Ryan said.

 

[Liability]

I wasn't aware this was a sports match.

You're wrong, the dems had a 2 to 1 advantage in time of possession and still lost........

I blame the refs

Nah. Just the Canadian Ref. It's all his fault.

I mean, he DQ'd Ohno, too.

 

[sboyle24]

Summary of this board. YES NO YES NO YES NO YES YES NO NO YES NO

 

[Liability]

Wise men have observed that there is merit in the proposition, "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T 'FIX' IT."

But the liberal Democratics have a slight modification to that proposition. THEY contend that "if it ain't broke, claim it is 'broke,' then 'fix' it by making sure it doesn't work at all for anybody."

Studiously applying that proposition to American Health Care, the Obama Administration has supported, proposed or backed legislation that will do exactly that.

And they are mystified when the American people insist that they don't want what President Obama is selling.

 

[Ragnar]

Why should "wealthy Americans" run to Canada? They're "wealthy". They can afford health care.

So if you aren't wealthy, then what?

Average cost to an emergency room is over $1000. If you are between 45 and 65, it's over $1500. Average cost of one day in hospital is $4,700 and that doesn't include X-rays and other fees. Who pays for all that if someone doesn't have insurance? Come on now, think it through. How does that get paid for? Why won't Republicans answer these questions? Why?

Well the answer to your first question lies in the link I provided for context. (Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams who skipped out on Canada's system) I think you should reread your own question. "Why should "wealthy Americans" run to Canada?" Indeed. The point is when you can afford the best, you seek out the best care possible and that care is in America. (not Canada, Cuba, China or Catmandu. someone que Neil Diamond... 'everywhere around the world, they come into America')

"So if you aren't wealthy, then what?" Short answer is this, your need is not a claim on my life. But no one is so cold as you like to suggest. We already have programs for the poor that some don't even bother to sign up for. There is private charity as well.

Also we need to fight for rules and regulations that make sense and lower cost for everyone. We can do that. It's simple and cheap and I explained some ideas here:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-scrap-the-bill-start-over-if-you-will-7.html
(near top of page 7 in that thread... it's too big to bring over here)

We know "who pays" when folks walk in off the street for free emergency care sans insurence. We all do in the form of higher prices. It's built in to the current system of cost for insurence companies. Help those companies with some sensable deregulation but also force them to compete nationwide. And help the doctors with reasonable tort reform. (I provided a link for some good ideas on that at the other USMB thread above) I think everyone should be eligable for tax excemptions for buying health insurence for those who can't afford it, 100 cents on the dollar.

Empower individuals not government.

 

[WillowTree]

Rep Ryan, a young Conservative really gets under the Presidents skin as you can see in the video when he calls out Obamas Health Care Plan as "a Ponzi Scheme that would make Bernie Madoff proud". He lays out the numbers of what it will cost the American people and how it will rob social security from seniors in just 6 minutes. This is a must see.

YouTube - Paul Ryan slams the Democratic Health Care Bill


Average trip to the doctor’s office: $100

President Obama’s new healthcare plan: $1 Trillion

Watching Rep. Paul Ryan pwn President Obama at his own healthcare summit: Priceless



Today it became painfully obvious President Obama does not play chess. Pwned by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) at the President’s own healthcare summit, Obama was forced to just sit there and take it. This bright, young conservative exposed the Democrat’s healthcare gimmicks, and took Obama and Biden to task over whether Congress was “qualified” to know what the American people want.
Proving himself incapable of engaging on any level in response to Ryan, Obama was left to whine that he didn’t “want to get bogged down.”

Televising was a brilliant idea. I hope they do it some more.

 

[boedicca]

It's very telling that Obama did not address any of the major points covered by Ryan - instead he tried to deflect the discussion to solely Medicare Advantage.

 

[Liability]

Rep Ryan, a young Conservative really gets under the Presidents skin as you can see in the video when he calls out Obamas Health Care Plan as "a Ponzi Scheme that would make Bernie Madoff proud". He lays out the numbers of what it will cost the American people and how it will rob social security from seniors in just 6 minutes. This is a must see.

YouTube - Paul Ryan slams the Democratic Health Care Bill


Average trip to the doctor’s office: $100

President Obama’s new healthcare plan: $1 Trillion

Watching Rep. Paul Ryan pwn President Obama at his own healthcare summit: Priceless



Today it became painfully obvious President Obama does not play chess. Pwned by Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) at the President’s own healthcare summit, Obama was forced to just sit there and take it. This bright, young conservative exposed the Democrat’s healthcare gimmicks, and took Obama and Biden to task over whether Congress was “qualified” to know what the American people want.
Proving himself incapable of engaging on any level in response to Ryan, Obama was left to whine that he didn’t “want to get bogged down.”

Televising was a brilliant idea. I hope they do it some more.

Between the pounding the liberal Democratics got despite the massive time difference they enjoyed and the on-camera Presidential booger search, this was indeed AWESOME.

Whoever is advising the President deserves a raise!

 

[PixieStix]

Ryan was concise and factual. Democrats hate that. They need emotional blackmail and lies to sell their policies. They want to collect taxes for 10 years to pay for 6 years of benefits so that they can say it's "budget neutral". What happens in the second 10 years? We go belly up.......

Exactly
It works kind of like the smoking ban in Ohio Now the Ohio nutjobs are thinking of overturning the ban and requiring a license to allow restaurants and bars to allow smoking again


Newly released Ohio Department of Health figures show the state has spent $3.2 million to impose $1.2 million in fines on violators of Ohio's smoking ban.

Way to go idiots. My taxes went up because of these types of decisions.

Geez liberal politicians are really dumb aren't they? Amazing, how the voters voted in these bafoons

This health care bill is a scam