Muslims are Prohibited to Pick Non Muslims as Leaders or Allies

[grbb]

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Recently Ahok, lost election in Indonesia.

Why?

During a campaign stop on the string of islands off Jakarta’s coast in September, Basuki joked with locals that Islamic conservatives were lying when they claimed that Muslims were forbidden from voting for non-believers. To many it was an innocuous quip. But hardliners insisted Basuki meant the Koran lied.

Jakarta’s ethnic Chinese leader is gone, is it Widodo next?


His approval rating was very high.

And that's obvious. Before Jokowi Ahok, rivers are dirty in Indonesia. Road are often broken. Why? Corruption is rampant. All the money goes to government officials. This is the way it used to be for years and years and years.

Then Ahok come.

Ahok does not care about politically correctness.

He's rude.

People at Jakarta love him. People think he's unbeatable in election. They are sick of corruption.

Then one day Ahok said, jokingly, well they would lie to you, using Almaidah 51 or whatever. The muslims that hear him laugh. Somebody, then eliminate some of the words put it out of context and spread that to people.

What Al Maidah 51 said, is basically that muslims must not pick christians leader.

Is it true?

One thing for sure is, it's not practiced, or even discussed in most cases. I mean Arab kings invest 800 billion dollars in China, obviously without giving fuck whether the managers.

But here is the catch.

Islam do prohibit picking non muslim leaders. I read a bunch of muslim sites. Their khalifah Omar, fired a christians book keeper. The other muslims protested. Those are good book keeper. If we fired him we will lost all of our money. Khalifah Omar fired the christians anyway.

Perhaps, a more "moderate" interpretation of Islam is not "true" islam. Perhaps MUI is right.

Well I am letting you know this.

That way when you manage your immigration policy, or hiring manager, or working for muslim boss, you can know before hand what quran truly teach. Or at least, how it is interpreted.

After election defeat, Jakarta’s ethnic-Chinese governor may escape jail

I am sick of this hypocrisy. Does islam allow picking non muslim managers, ceos, governors, or not? If yes, then why should we work with muslims at all knowing we will be discriminated against?

If no, then people that say that political elites use al maidah 51 to lie to people is right. So why is he being charged with blashpemy case?

This double face religions cannot defy the result. The result is we lost the one person that effectively eliminate corruptions?

What if Ahok’s loss in the Jakarta election wasn’t all about Islam and anti-Chinese feeling?

 

[irosie91]

for the record-----under the stench of Islamic law----a muslim CANNOT BE UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF A NON MUSLIM.
For further elucidation---review Adolf Hitler's Nuremburg laws.
Did anyone out there think that adolf INVENTED THEM.
Thus a non muslim cannot be a political leader nor can a non
muslim HIRE a muslim as his employee. Check Adolf's Nuremburg laws

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear irosie91 and grbb
Reminds me of a case that was actually supported in Texas, where
a Christian school argued that their religious tradition barred women from
being in a teaching position over men. The woman applicant had sued for
discrimination, but the court found that within the private school, they had
the religious freedom to put their beliefs before the secular laws requiring no discrimination based on gender.

NOTE:what I would have done is advise that the school offer an EQUIVALENT position
of the same status and rate that allows the women teachers to teach without violating their rules.
They might have to partner with a women's program to find the resources to offer this, but that is one
solution that could have been worked out through mediation, to meet both religious and civil standards without compromising either one.

As for Muslims, they are also called as Christians are to follow SECULAR CIVIL Authority and govt.
So if the SECULAR laws call for obedience to courts, that is part of the Biblical laws calling
for CIVIL OBEDIENCE that both Christians and Muslims are bound by. The Bible does say
that the courts will be given to SECULAR authority. And even if persecuted for their beliefs, believers will be called to witness before kings and must obey the civil process.

The Muslims also are called to higher standards than what secular laws allow legally,
such as no drinking. But under no circumstances are the laws to be misconstrued for
Muslims to follow LOWER standards, only HIGHER than what the laws call for.

So this is misinterpreted and abused if people are "misteaching" that Muslims have the right to break secular/civil laws if they are not enforced under Muslim authority.

The same God created natural laws, and civil govt is under that authority.

So as long as Muslims are submitting to God's laws, that includes
CIVIL OBEDIENCE to secular authority as part of law and order in peaceful society.

 

[irosie91]

I was referring to ISLAMIC LAW IN ISLAMIC LANDS----and, of course, in Islamic institutions like mosques and schools which are
under the control of Islamic authority. The situation does not affect you because you do not live in an Islamic land. Were you a DHIMMI in an Islamic land-----you could not be a in a position
of authority over muslims. Musims could be in a position of authority over you. In the US, businesses owned by muslims are
likely to follow Islamic custom, and schools run by muslims are likely to follow Islamic law. Problems can arise because of what americans perceive as unequal treatment but muslims see as
divine law. Feel free to ask questions----hubby was born a dhimmi in an Islamic cesspit------he is here. In the country in which he was born-----a non muslim cannot run for any public office (or ride on a horse or camel)

 

[emilynghiem]

I was referring to ISLAMIC LAW IN ISLAMIC LANDS----and, of course, in Islamic institutions like mosques and schools which are
under the control of Islamic authority. The situation does not affect you because you do not live in an Islamic land. Were you a DHIMMI in an Islamic land-----you could not be a in a position
of authority over muslims. Musims could be in a position of authority over you. In the US, businesses owned by muslims are
likely to follow Islamic custom, and schools run by muslims are likely to follow Islamic law. Problems can arise because of what americans perceive as unequal treatment but muslims see as
divine law. Feel free to ask questions----hubby was born a dhimmi in an Islamic cesspit------he is here. In the country in which he was born-----a non muslim cannot run for any public office (or ride on a horse or camel)

Thanks irosie91
Sounds like another major area that needs reform.

I wonder if this was brought up in the book by a Muslim author criticizing Islam:
The Trouble with Islam Today - Wikipedia

The Bahai also teach that the focus on education should be on women and girls
in order to make society sustainable. So this runs against the hardlined discrimination
against educating women and girls in schools. As I understand, in Afghanistan or Pakistan, there was a region that ran into this problem with a Muslim leader OPPOSED to a school that was going to educate girls. But the community united and addressed this man, and convinced him otherwise.

How can we support more Christian, Jewish and Muslim women in their
role of changing attitudes so this education and reform can take place more widespread?

[Added note: In China, there was a different Tibetan monk (not the Dalai Lama who is blacklisted) who managed to convince the Chinese govt to work WITH the Tibetan community to support education for the girls as necessary for the need of the population. Can this approach of education be used to bridge political gaps and barriers? Or is education too politicized itself?]

 

[irosie91]

I was referring to ISLAMIC LAW IN ISLAMIC LANDS----and, of course, in Islamic institutions like mosques and schools which are
under the control of Islamic authority. The situation does not affect you because you do not live in an Islamic land. Were you a DHIMMI in an Islamic land-----you could not be a in a position
of authority over muslims. Musims could be in a position of authority over you. In the US, businesses owned by muslims are
likely to follow Islamic custom, and schools run by muslims are likely to follow Islamic law. Problems can arise because of what americans perceive as unequal treatment but muslims see as
divine law. Feel free to ask questions----hubby was born a dhimmi in an Islamic cesspit------he is here. In the country in which he was born-----a non muslim cannot run for any public office (or ride on a horse or camel)

Thanks irosie91
Sounds like another major area that needs reform.

I wonder if this was brought up in the book by a Muslim author criticizing Islam:
The Trouble with Islam Today - Wikipedia

The Bahai also teach that the focus on education should be on women and girls
in order to make society sustainable. So this runs against the hardlined discrimination
against educating women and girls in schools. As I understand, in Afghanistan or Pakistan, there was a region that ran into this problem with a Muslim leader OPPOSED to a school that was going to educate girls. But the community united and addressed this man, and convinced him otherwise.

How can we support more Christian, Jewish and Muslim women in their
role of changing attitudes so this education and reform can take place more widespread?

[Added note: In China, there was a different Tibetan monk (not the Dalai Lama who is blacklisted) who managed to convince the Chinese govt to work WITH the Tibetan community to support education for the girls as necessary for the need of the population. Can this approach of education be used to bridge political gaps and barriers? Or is education too politicized itself?]

why did you jump into gender issues The issue was
muslim vs kaffir

 

[emilynghiem]

I was referring to ISLAMIC LAW IN ISLAMIC LANDS----and, of course, in Islamic institutions like mosques and schools which are
under the control of Islamic authority. The situation does not affect you because you do not live in an Islamic land. Were you a DHIMMI in an Islamic land-----you could not be a in a position
of authority over muslims. Musims could be in a position of authority over you. In the US, businesses owned by muslims are
likely to follow Islamic custom, and schools run by muslims are likely to follow Islamic law. Problems can arise because of what americans perceive as unequal treatment but muslims see as
divine law. Feel free to ask questions----hubby was born a dhimmi in an Islamic cesspit------he is here. In the country in which he was born-----a non muslim cannot run for any public office (or ride on a horse or camel)

Thanks irosie91
Sounds like another major area that needs reform.

I wonder if this was brought up in the book by a Muslim author criticizing Islam:
The Trouble with Islam Today - Wikipedia

The Bahai also teach that the focus on education should be on women and girls
in order to make society sustainable. So this runs against the hardlined discrimination
against educating women and girls in schools. As I understand, in Afghanistan or Pakistan, there was a region that ran into this problem with a Muslim leader OPPOSED to a school that was going to educate girls. But the community united and addressed this man, and convinced him otherwise.

How can we support more Christian, Jewish and Muslim women in their
role of changing attitudes so this education and reform can take place more widespread?

[Added note: In China, there was a different Tibetan monk (not the Dalai Lama who is blacklisted) who managed to convince the Chinese govt to work WITH the Tibetan community to support education for the girls as necessary for the need of the population. Can this approach of education be used to bridge political gaps and barriers? Or is education too politicized itself?]

why did you jump into gender issues The issue was
muslim vs kaffir

Sorry I see this reform as connected.
That by the time one is reformed, the other issues will also be included.

Sorry if that counts as two different topics. Thanks irosie91 !

 

[grbb]

Actually 30% of muslims pick Ahok.

My concern is these muslims reject clean candidates just over religions.

Many people says that most muslims are "moderate"

I am not sure how true it is, but it's misleading.

Muslim religious leaders have far more influences on their constituents.

And religious leaders are much more easily appeased than large number of people.