CDZ Muslim Terrorism versus Islamopohobes

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by saveliberty, May 20, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Carla_Danger
    Offline

    Carla_Danger Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Messages:
    17,914
    Thanks Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    390
    Location:
    A Red Welfare State
    Ratings:
    +18,366

    No, I asked a fair question and you refuse to debate what's in your OP. If you think I'm in violation of the rules, please hit the report button.

    You stated that you find Muslims as a whole to be intolerant, but since you're lumping them all together, aren't you guilty of being intolerant as well?
     
  2. saveliberty
    Offline

    saveliberty Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    50,539
    Thanks Received:
    7,385
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +31,369
    You asked about the third hate. Now you bait and switch to the first category, while ignoring I acknowledged the second as valid as well.

    Your logical fallacy really needs no comment.
     
  3. Carla_Danger
    Offline

    Carla_Danger Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Messages:
    17,914
    Thanks Received:
    5,363
    Trophy Points:
    390
    Location:
    A Red Welfare State
    Ratings:
    +18,366

    I'm still not clear on this 3rd form of hate you claimed we'd all see throughout the thread. I'm not seeing it, and you are refusing to debate what's in your OP.

    Again, my questions have been totally fair and on topic.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. Mac1958
    Offline

    Mac1958 Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    41,226
    Thanks Received:
    8,425
    Trophy Points:
    2,060
    Location:
    Independent Ave.
    Ratings:
    +32,441
    Yeah, funny how that works. Not unlike accidentally deleting the word "illegal" from the term "illegal aliens." It's impossible to communicate with people who refuse to be honest, and it's impossible to solve problems when there is no communication.
    I do believe that could be an element, as well. And part of that is the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" element, even though that friend is what it is.
    .
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. pillars
    Offline

    pillars BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2014
    Messages:
    36,485
    Thanks Received:
    7,278
    Trophy Points:
    1,470
    Location:
    UNC
    Ratings:
    +45,465
    Come to North Carolina. You will see something completely different.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. saveliberty
    Offline

    saveliberty Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    50,539
    Thanks Received:
    7,385
    Trophy Points:
    1,830
    Ratings:
    +31,369
    I think a good amount of honest discussion was had here. Not sure how making a confrontational statement promotes communication.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  7. Coyote
    Offline

    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    57,510
    Thanks Received:
    10,146
    Trophy Points:
    2,030
    Location:
    in between
    Ratings:
    +26,805
    Ok, your case was made by looking at what most American Muslim's believe (that Sharia is God's word) and extrapolating from that in order to claim that therefore, most American Muslims believe that Sharia should be the law of the land (ie overrule the Constitution). There's a big gap in there that needs to be jumped.

    Here's some of Pew's poll on American Muslims: Section 5: Political Opinions and Social Values

    None of the questions specifically ask about Sharia, however - there are a number of questions that ask about their views on topics that can be connected to Sharia (for example women's roles, homosexuality etc.):

    Muslim Americans hold more conservative views than the general public about gays and lesbians. However, they have become more accepting of homosexuality since 2007.

    Today, Muslim Americans are more divided on this question: 39% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 45% say it should be discouraged. Four years ago, far more said homosexuality should be discouraged (61%) than accepted (27%).


    The broader public has become more accepting of homosexuality as well. Currently, 58% say homosexuality should be accepted, while 33% say it should be discouraged. In 2006, about half (51%) said homosexuality should be accepted, while 38% said it should be discouraged.


    The changes since 2007 are evident across most demographic groups of Muslim Americans. One exception, though, is older Muslim Americans. Four years ago, 22% of this group said homosexuality should be accepted. Today, 21% say this. The next oldest age group – those 40 to 54 – are almost evenly divided (43% say homosexuality should be accepted; 47% say it should be discouraged). Four years ago, 69% of this group said homosexuality should be discouraged.


    Acceptance of homosexuality has risen significantly among those with high levels of religious commitment (from 16% in 2007 to 30% today) as well as those with medium levels of religious commitment (from 21% in 2007 to 37% today). However, those who express a low level of religious commitment continue to be more accepting (57%) than those with a high religious commitment (30%). Four years ago, 47% of those with low religious commitment said homosexuality should be accepted, compared with 16% among those who express a high commitment.


    Whether Muslim Americans were born in the U.S. or immigrated here seems to make little difference in views toward homosexuality. Currently, 41% of the native born say homosexuality should be accepted, about the same as the 38% of foreign born who say this. In both cases, the numbers are up since 2007 (30% among the native born, 26% among the foreign born).

    Though overall Islam remains more conservative on this issue, it reflects the same trends as the general population over all, and the gap isn't huge and is closing. Compare this with countries, like Egypt or Afghanistan where there is a strong belief in that Sharia should be law of the land and a high intolerance for homosexuality.

    The second area where adherence to a strict model of Sharia exerts an influence that is antithetical to western values is in the role of women, and here again we see distinct differences between Muslims in America and Muslims in the Middle East.

    Nearly seven-in-ten U.S. Muslims (68%) say gender makes no difference in the quality of political leaders. Still, about a quarter (27%) say men make better political leaders. Very few (4%) say women make better leaders. There are only slight differences in views on this between men and women and among various age groups.

    Among the U.S. public, 72% say gender does not determine who will be the better political leader. About one-in-ten each say men (12%) or women (13%) make better leaders.
    On women working outside the home:
    Muslim Americans show strong support for allowing women to join the workforce. Nine-in-ten either completely (72%) or mostly agree (18%) that women should be able to work outside the home. Among the U.S. general public, almost all either completely (81%) or mostly (16%) agree with this.

    Attitudes among Muslim Americans are similar to attitudes among Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey. But support for women working outside the home is considerably smaller in many other Muslim nations. For example, in Egypt, only about six-in-ten say they either completely agree (23%) or mostly agree (39%) that women should be allowed to work outside the home. About four-in-ten (39%) disagree.


    A few other takeaways from the poll:
    • Support for Islamic extremism is negligable.
    • Muslim Americans are religious, but not dogmatic (Many Muslim Americans are highly religious: 69% say that religion is very important in their lives; 70% of Christians say that religion is very important in their lives)

    Overwhelming numbers of Muslim Americans believe in Allah (96%), the Prophet Muhammad (96%) and the Day of Judgment (92%). Yet the survey finds that most reject a dogmatic approach to religion. Most Muslim Americans (57%) say there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of Islam; far fewer (37%) say that there is only one true interpretation of Islam. Similarly, 56% of Muslim Americans say that many different religions can lead to eternal life; just 35% say that Islam is the one true faith that leads to eternal life.

    In this respect, Muslim Americans differ from many of their counterparts in the Muslim world and are similar to U.S. Christians. In the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life’s 2007 U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, 28% of Christians said that there was only one way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

    • On wearing a hijab:
    About a third of Muslim American women (36%) report always wearing the headcover or hijab whenever they are out in public, and an additional 24% say they wear the hijab most or some of the time. Four-in-ten (40%) say they never wear the headcover.

    • On assimilation:
    A majority of Muslim Americans (56%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. today want to adopt American customs and ways of life. Far fewer (20%) say that most Muslims coming to the U.S. want to be distinct from the larger American society, with a similar number (16%) volunteering that Muslim immigrants want to do both. Native-born and foreign-born Muslims give similar answers to this question.

    More than six-in-ten American Muslims (63%) see no conflict between being a devout Muslim and living in a modern society, twice the number who do see such a conflict (31%). A 2006 Pew Research survey found a nearly identical pattern among American Christians who were asked about a possible conflict between modernity and their own faith. Nearly two-thirds of Christians (64%) said there is no conflict between being a devout Christian and living in a modern society, compared with 31% who did perceive a conflict.


    When ask, who you are:
    [​IMG]

    When you look at all this, as one big picture - two things stand out. There isn't a huge difference between American Muslims and American Christians (ie - the mainstream majority in the US).

    The second thing is - it's impossible to reconcile these views with a desire to have Sharia be the law of the land by even a significant minority much less a majority.
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 2
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page