Muslim Beheads wife in America

[Kalam]

Er..yes, the crusades were undertaken in response to MUSLIM oppression and the butchery of 3000 Christians in Jerusalem.

Please cite any writing contemporary with the beginning of the Crusades that cites this as a primary reason. Surely you aren't referring to pilgrims like those Germans who were attacked by Bedouins only to be defended and sheltered by the governor of Ramla. Furthermore, please cite anything claiming that the Fatimids -- who controlled Jerusalem at the time of the Crusaders' arrival -- had a policy of killing Christian pilgrims.


Lord, Allie, you aren't this stupid.

There's a reason that every site which promotes your version of history is either Christian or wholly unreliable like "answers.com."

But continue to bloviate and pretend we're saying different things, by all means. I'm sure it makes you feel important.

No; this makes me feel like I'm trying to explain something to a fussy young child. Your "history" was invented to create a false reality consistent with the puerile notion that Christians can do no evil. It has no basis in fact.

I never said Christians do no evil.

I said the crusades were a response to the butchery and empire building of the Muslims.

And I was right.

If only continuing to provide no evidence and hollowly claiming victory worked.

 

[AllieBaba]

Urban (certainly a contemporary):

"For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire."

Bongars, Gesta Dei per Francos, 1, pp. 382 f., trans in Oliver J. Thatcher, and Edgar Holmes McNeal, eds., A Source Book for Medieval History, (New York: Scribners, 1905), 513-17

 

[THE LIGHT]

Er..yes, the crusades were undertaken in response to MUSLIM oppression and the butchery of 3000 Christians in Jerusalem.

Please cite any writing contemporary with the beginning of the Crusades that cites this as a primary reason. Surely you aren't referring to pilgrims like those Germans who were attacked by Bedouins only to be defended and sheltered by the governor of Ramla. Furthermore, please cite anything claiming that the Fatimids -- who controlled Jerusalem at the time of the Crusaders' arrival -- had a policy of killing Christian pilgrims.

"The Crusades resulted as a reaction of Muslim aggression against the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantines). The Muslims were running constant aggressive conquest campaigns on Christian lands as part of their imperialistic expansion. In 638 the Muslims conquered Jerusalem - the holy land where Jews and Christians would pilgrimage to. The Christian pilgrims to there were persecuted by the Muslims greatly. Over 60 Christian pilgrims were crucified in one short period by the Muslims.

All the Christians and Jews of Jerusalem (and other Muslim territories) were forced to wear heavy crosses and wooden calves around their neck. It wasn't until 1021 that this persecution decreased.

In 1056 hundreds of Christians were expelled from Jerusalem and European Christians were blocked from the pilgrimage to the city. On entering Jerusalem in 1077 3000 Jews and Christians were murdered by the Muslim invaders.

Then we get to where the story you quoted began - in response to the calls for help by the Christians persecuted throughout the Middle East and former Byzantine Empire territories the Western Church sent help. Answers.com - What are the causes of Crusades

Even wiki knows it.

Lord, Allie, you aren't this stupid.

There's a reason that every site which promotes your version of history is either Christian or wholly unreliable like "answers.com."

But continue to bloviate and pretend we're saying different things, by all means. I'm sure it makes you feel important.

No; this makes me feel like I'm trying to explain something to a fussy young child. Your "history" was invented to create a false reality consistent with the puerile notion that Christians can do no evil. It has no basis in fact.

As if Muslims, deniers of the holacaust, have any room to lecture us on history revisions.

 

[THE LIGHT]

After all, this is the Kalam that tells us his view of the Jooos changed after he became a Muslim. Some objectve sources he's getting his history from.

 

[mattskramer]

The difference is that Christians don't commit the crimes at the behest of the bible.

People commit crimes based on their interpretation of what the Bible says too:

The Bible can be interpreted to advocate evil:

Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Matthew 19:29 can be interpreted to advocate child abandonment for it says:
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Luke 12:47 Jesus condones slave-beating: "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.”

Western Traditions Final Project: Christianity, Abortion and Terrorism

Yeah, provide the stats that show christian fundamentalists who murder and butcher are on the rise, and kill as many as Muslim fundamentalists.

For the sake of argument, I grant you that Muslim atrocities compared to Christian atrocities. My point is just in demonstrating that Islam can be compared to Christianity. It is like comparing apples to apples. They are in the same category.

 

[mattskramer]

Er..yes, the crusades were undertaken in response to MUSLIM oppression and the butchery of 3000 Christians in Jerusalem.

Please cite any writing contemporary with the beginning of the Crusades that cites this as a primary reason. Surely you aren't referring to pilgrims like those Germans who were attacked by Bedouins only to be defended and sheltered by the governor of Ramla. Furthermore, please cite anything claiming that the Fatimids -- who controlled Jerusalem at the time of the Crusaders' arrival -- had a policy of killing Christian pilgrims.


Lord, Allie, you aren't this stupid.

There's a reason that every site which promotes your version of history is either Christian or wholly unreliable like "answers.com."

But continue to bloviate and pretend we're saying different things, by all means. I'm sure it makes you feel important.

No; this makes me feel like I'm trying to explain something to a fussy young child. Your "history" was invented to create a false reality consistent with the puerile notion that Christians can do no evil. It has no basis in fact.

I never said Christians do no evil.

I said the crusades were a response to the butchery and empire building of the Muslims.

And I was right.

The Crusades went beyond that.

 

[Kalam]

Urban (certainly a contemporary):

"For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire."

Bongars, Gesta Dei per Francos, 1, pp. 382 f., trans in Oliver J. Thatcher, and Edgar Holmes McNeal, eds., A Source Book for Medieval History, (New York: Scribners, 1905), 513-17

That's a reference to the conquest of Anatolia. We have already agreed that the response to this was "self defense." I asked you to cite a contemporary source that identified attacking pilgrims as a primary reason for invading the Levant.

No luck?

 

[Kalam]

As if Muslims, deniers of the holacaust, have any room to lecture us on history revisions.

I deny the Holocaust? Please point to a post of mine saying as much. I'll now direct your attention to the website in my signature.

 

[Jack Fate]

People commit crimes based on their interpretation of what the Bible says too:

The Bible can be interpreted to advocate evil:

Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

Matthew 19:29 can be interpreted to advocate child abandonment for it says:
And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Luke 12:47 Jesus condones slave-beating: "That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.”

Western Traditions Final Project: Christianity, Abortion and Terrorism

Yeah, provide the stats that show christian fundamentalists who murder and butcher are on the rise, and kill as many as Muslim fundamentalists.

For the sake of argument, I grant you that Muslim atrocities compared to Christian atrocities. My point is just in demonstrating that Islam can be compared to Christianity. It is like comparing apples to apples. They are in the same category.

I disagree they are in the same category. If you have studied both then you can't say that.

 

[Kalam]

After all, this is the Kalam that tells us his view of the Jooos changed after he became a Muslim.

I said that?

Let's see where. I've said that my views of Israel changed; are you one of those who claims that "Israel=Jews"?

 

[Jack Fate]

As if Muslims, deniers of the holacaust, have any room to lecture us on history revisions.

I deny the Holocaust? Please point to a post of mine saying as much. I'll now direct your attention to the website in my signature.

Do you believe the Holocaust was responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews?

 

[Jack Fate]

After all, this is the Kalam that tells us his view of the Jooos changed after he became a Muslim.

I said that?

Let's see where. I've said that my views of Israel changed; are you one of those who claims that "Israel=Jews"?

So your views of Israel changed when you became a muslim. Gee, what a coincidence.

 

[Kalam]

As if Muslims, deniers of the holacaust, have any room to lecture us on history revisions.

I deny the Holocaust? Please point to a post of mine saying as much. I'll now direct your attention to the website in my signature.

Do you believe the Holocaust was responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews?

I believe that the government of Nazi Germany systematically exterminated a large number of people, mostly Jews. The people who were exterminated included those who espoused political ideologies that were at odds with Nazism, prisoners of war, homosexuals, those with genetic defects, and members of minority populations -- like Gypsies and Jews - that were deemed "inferior" to the "Master race." The number of people exterminated may or may not be six million. It doesn't matter because the exact number of people killed is only a small part of what made this crime so horrific.

 

[mattskramer]

Yeah, provide the stats that show christian fundamentalists who murder and butcher are on the rise, and kill as many as Muslim fundamentalists.

For the sake of argument, I grant you that Muslim atrocities compared to Christian atrocities. My point is just in demonstrating that Islam can be compared to Christianity. It is like comparing apples to apples. They are in the same category.

I disagree they are in the same category. If you have studied both then you can't say that.

They are both monotheistic religions. Both have blemished pasts. Both have members who have done evil things. There are and were bad Christians and good Christians and bad Muslims and good Muslims. Each of their religious texts has strange passages that seem somewhat cruel by today’s standards. They each have good passages.

 

[Kalam]

After all, this is the Kalam that tells us his view of the Jooos changed after he became a Muslim.

I said that?

Let's see where. I've said that my views of Israel changed; are you one of those who claims that "Israel=Jews"?

So your views of Israel changed when you became a muslim. Gee, what a coincidence.

Nope. They changed because I didn't know much about the conflict before I became religious. My views are the result of familiarizing myself with the circumstances and nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; this happened independently of my decision to become a more devoted Muslim.

 

[Jack Fate]

I deny the Holocaust? Please point to a post of mine saying as much. I'll now direct your attention to the website in my signature.

Do you believe the Holocaust was responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews?

I believe that the government of Nazi Germany systematically exterminated a large number of people, mostly Jews. The people who were exterminated included those who espoused political ideologies that were at odds with Nazism, prisoners of war, homosexuals, those with genetic defects, and members of minority populations -- like Gypsies and Jews - that were deemed "inferior" to the "Master race." The number of people exterminated may or may not be six million. It doesn't matter because the exact number of people killed is only a small part of what made this crime so horrific.

Muftism and Nazism: World War II Collaboration Documents

 

[Jack Fate]

I said that?

Let's see where. I've said that my views of Israel changed; are you one of those who claims that "Israel=Jews"?

So your views of Israel changed when you became a muslim. Gee, what a coincidence.

Nope. They changed because I didn't know much about the conflict before I became religious. My views are the result of familiarizing myself with the circumstances and nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; this happened independently of my decision to become a more devoted Muslim.

How have you "familiarized" yourself. What kind of studies? Where? Instructors?

 

[mattskramer]

So your views of Israel changed when you became a muslim. Gee, what a coincidence.

Nope. They changed because I didn't know much about the conflict before I became religious. My views are the result of familiarizing myself with the circumstances and nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; this happened independently of my decision to become a more devoted Muslim.

How have you "familiarized" yourself. What kind of studies? Where? Instructors?

Wow. Is this the Spanish Inquisition?

 

[Kalam]

Do you believe the Holocaust was responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews?

I believe that the government of Nazi Germany systematically exterminated a large number of people, mostly Jews. The people who were exterminated included those who espoused political ideologies that were at odds with Nazism, prisoners of war, homosexuals, those with genetic defects, and members of minority populations -- like Gypsies and Jews - that were deemed "inferior" to the "Master race." The number of people exterminated may or may not be six million. It doesn't matter because the exact number of people killed is only a small part of what made this crime so horrific.

Muftism and Nazism: World War II Collaboration Documents

And?

 

[Kalam]

So your views of Israel changed when you became a muslim. Gee, what a coincidence.

Nope. They changed because I didn't know much about the conflict before I became religious. My views are the result of familiarizing myself with the circumstances and nature of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; this happened independently of my decision to become a more devoted Muslim.

How have you "familiarized" yourself. What kind of studies? Where? Instructors?

Instructors? Myself. Nothing incredibly in-depth, but I've read through or skimmed Israeli Government reports, news reports from Israeli and Arab sources, reports from Israeli and international human rights agencies, and informative articles from websites like this:

Middle East: MidEastWeb

It's based in Israel and run by Jews, Christians, and Muslims. It takes no side in the conflict and is generally a good source for objective information.

When you're correct, you don't need to rely on biased information to support your position.