CDZ Mueller investigation. How will it pan out ?

[Tommy Tainant]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

 

[night_son]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

No American is above the law. That said, in a perfect world we could take to the bank the natural and universal punishment of the guilty, and live without fear as innocents of any criminal accusation. Unfortunately, sometimes the innocent are prosecuted, convicted; lives are ruined and freedom suspending sentences imposed. Other times the guilty get off without much interruption to the criminal sprees they call careers.

At present I am torn. Torn between complete acquittal and eventual conviction on bogus charges. From down here on the ground with the rest of my fellow human ants in the hill, craning my neck up to glimpse the rumblings in the American empyrean, it's quite a task not to be taken simply by the sensationalism of American political Titans locked in internal civil war of the mind and mundane. On every strata of intersubjectivity conceivable, powers are clashing at the highest level. Throughout the executive and legislative branches; with demigods of the intelligence and federal law enforcement agencies commanding their most elite shock cavalry to charge into the ideological and material breaches, we who are so low on the chessboard of American political power can only shrug our shoulders, pop more popcorn or run like hell to get out of the way of imminently falling colossi on either or both sides.

Get back to you when the curtain is closer to closing.

 

[Syriusly]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario 1- nightmare for America. Only worse scenario would be if it was true- and never uncovered.
I truly hope this doesn't turn out to be true- but if it were true- then it needs to come out.

Scenario 2- What everyone should be hoping for- that there is clear information that Trump and his campaign never conspired with Russia. What I hope for our countries sake is that Mueller completes his investigation and makes this conclusion.

Scenario 3- The muddled information- pretty much what we have now- with both sides digging in partisan heels and presuming that everyone is lying.

I would hope if Scenario #1 is true that Trump would be impeached or resign- but I don't know if Republicans could impeach Trump under any circumstances.

Under 2 and 3 Trump remains President until at least the next election or he gets bored.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario 1- nightmare for America. Only worse scenario would be if it was true- and never uncovered.
I truly hope this doesn't turn out to be true- but if it were true- then it needs to come out.

Scenario 2- What everyone should be hoping for- that there is clear information that Trump and his campaign never conspired with Russia. What I hope for our countries sake is that Mueller completes his investigation and makes this conclusion.

Scenario 3- The muddled information- pretty much what we have now- with both sides digging in partisan heels and presuming that everyone is lying.

I would hope if Scenario #1 is true that Trump would be impeached or resign- but I don't know if Republicans could impeach Trump under any circumstances.

Under 2 and 3 Trump remains President until at least the next election or he gets bored.

After today it looks like Mueller should have all of the evidence he needs. Maybe it will come to a conclusion very soon.

 

[FA_Q2]

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
No, its not. The very idea is problematic. There is a process here - should the evidence be there then the president is impeached and convicted. Then citizen Trump tried in a court of law with Pence (if he is not implicated with Trump in the findings) taking over the presidency. This assumes that Pence does not pardon him (the idea that Trump can pardon himself is asinine).

If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?
If 1 is then no. 3 then yes. If there is not enough evidence to convict then there is no crime and no grounds at all to impeach or remove him from office.

 

[sakinago]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario 1- nightmare for America. Only worse scenario would be if it was true- and never uncovered.
I truly hope this doesn't turn out to be true- but if it were true- then it needs to come out.

Scenario 2- What everyone should be hoping for- that there is clear information that Trump and his campaign never conspired with Russia. What I hope for our countries sake is that Mueller completes his investigation and makes this conclusion.

Scenario 3- The muddled information- pretty much what we have now- with both sides digging in partisan heels and presuming that everyone is lying.

I would hope if Scenario #1 is true that Trump would be impeached or resign- but I don't know if Republicans could impeach Trump under any circumstances.

Under 2 and 3 Trump remains President until at least the next election or he gets bored.

After today it looks like Mueller should have all of the evidence he needs. Maybe it will come to a conclusion very soon.

Non of that has anything to do with Trump/Russia collusion. Everything with manafort was prior to trump, during the whole Crimea annexation debacle a few years ago. He’s a slim bag, not so different from the rest of the slim bag lobbyist, just more incredibly stupid. Although whose stupider, him or the people that hire him?

Cohen has nothing to do with Russian collision, just paying hush money to porn stars. Few problems here with conviction/impeachment of trump. One is that trump has solid defenses against this, one is that he does this all the time (pay hush money) and that’s no different from non-political life. Another is that this is a personal matter, not a campaign matter, paying a porn star hush money so your wife doesn’t get pissed and name tarnished is not even hardley the same as purchasing tv ads or a tour bus for the campaign. This is the same defense I believe John Edwards used not too long ago and that worked for him. If it didn’t then things like getting a hair cut, or buying expensive makeup can be campaign expenditures. Yet another is that trump pays his lawyer so much because his lawyer has specialized knowledge on the law that trump (or any other lay person) doesn’t really know. Trump pays Cohen for that knowledge, to keep him out of legal trouble, it’s plausible enough that Cohens an idiot lawyer (he is), and is solely responsible for the violation (if there is one).

A problem with impeachment here is precedent, with Edwards getting off, as well as the Obama campaign actually committing a violation (not reporting like 2 million in campaign donatations), and only getting a relatively small fine for that. So far all of this is very weak. Unless there is a tape of trump telling Cohen, go ahead, break the law, I don’t care, this needs to go away for the sake of the campaign. Even then, you’re still in murky waters with is that even a campaign expendarure? And I doubt Cohen has that tape, or else he would’ve been offered full immunity to turn it over. He hasn’t done so so far, so I’m gonna say probably not.

 

[MarathonMike]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

They finally realize that Collusion is not a crime and that they've been wasting everyone's time and money for 2 years. They call off the sham investigation and grovel for forgiveness from Donald Trump. He of course forgives them, being the magnanimous and great leader of America that he is.

 

[sealybobo]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario 1- nightmare for America. Only worse scenario would be if it was true- and never uncovered.
I truly hope this doesn't turn out to be true- but if it were true- then it needs to come out.

Scenario 2- What everyone should be hoping for- that there is clear information that Trump and his campaign never conspired with Russia. What I hope for our countries sake is that Mueller completes his investigation and makes this conclusion.

Scenario 3- The muddled information- pretty much what we have now- with both sides digging in partisan heels and presuming that everyone is lying.

I would hope if Scenario #1 is true that Trump would be impeached or resign- but I don't know if Republicans could impeach Trump under any circumstances.

Under 2 and 3 Trump remains President until at least the next election or he gets bored.

Or dementia

 

[skye]

I hope it will pan out with Mueller piece of s**t ,going to jail.

 

[sakinago]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

They finally realize that Collusion is not a crime and that they've been wasting everyone's time and money for 2 years. They call off the sham investigation and grovel for forgiveness from Donald Trump. He of course forgives them, being the magnanimous and great leader of America that he is.

So many things wrong with this perception...

 

[candycorn]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Trump will be accused of several things by the Mueller investigation.
Nothing will happen after that.
Politics will set in and nobody from his own party will say a word.

 

[sealybobo]

I hope it will pan out with Mueller piece of s**t ,going to jail.

Did ken Starr ever get what was coming to him?

 

[joaquinmiller]

I think Mueller will conclude - erring on the side of generosity - any collusion was out of ignorance and over-eagerness,and doesn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense. In the process, he'll uncover enough corruption that the stench will cling to anything Trump.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I think Mueller will conclude - erring on the side of generosity - any collusion was out of ignorance and over-eagerness,and doesn't rise to the level of an impeachable offense. In the process, he'll uncover enough corruption that the stench will cling to anything Trump.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller has on Trump but he seems to be a sober sort of fellow and I cant envisage him embarking on a 2 year fishing trip.

My gut feeling is that he has something and that he is working through these characters looking for enough evidence to make his case.The convictions so far are just a bonus.

But my interest in this thread is about what will happen and it looks like there is a consensus that not a lot will actually happen unless............................

 

[forkup]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario one: I'm not sure anything would happen. At the moment the Republican party is joined a the hip. No Republican politician can win a primary without attaching himself to Trump. This would mean that voting for impeachment regardless of evidence is political suicide.
Scenario two: Pretty unlikely. What is available in the public realm is more then enough to conclude that Trump will never be completely vindicated. Even if it's shown that Trump didn't coordinate with Russia directly. We know the people in his campaign tried on his behalf and we know that Trump was/is actively trying to hamper the investigation. Something that could very well be construed as being a crime in itself.
Not to mention this new charge of campaign finance violations.
As to what would happen, well if I'm not convinced him being guilty would prompt the Republican party then him being as clean as this wouldn't either.
Scenario three: I don't think stupidity is a valid defense in criminal cases, nor do I think guilty pleas and sometimes pretty lengthy prison sentences can be described as dishonesty. I get what you are saying but it seems a bit light.
- Anyways a president can be charged and convicted, for sure after he leaves office. Probably while still in office. The United States v Nixon established that the president does have to comply with a subpoena for instance, something that suggests that he can be charged too, although this would most certainly go before the supreme court. The most likely outcome would be that impeachment procedures would follow, procedures by the way that don't need an actual crime to be successful
-As a side note most European countries have similar procedures of removing people from office. Berlusconi was forced to resign for instance. Willy Claes in Belgium Willy Claes - Wikipedia
John Profumo in the UK Profumo affair - Wikipedia

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario one: I'm not sure anything would happen. At the moment the Republican party is joined a the hip. No Republican politician can win a primary without attaching himself to Trump. This would mean that voting for impeachment regardless of evidence is political suicide.
Scenario two: Pretty unlikely. What is available in the public realm is more then enough to conclude that Trump will never be completely vindicated. Even if it's shown that Trump didn't coordinate with Russia directly. We know the people in his campaign tried on his behalf and we know that Trump was/is actively trying to hamper the investigation. Something that could very well be construed as being a crime in itself.
Not to mention this new charge of campaign finance violations.
As to what would happen, well if I'm not convinced him being guilty would prompt the Republican party then him being as clean as this wouldn't either.
Scenario three: I don't think stupidity is a valid defense in criminal cases, nor do I think guilty pleas and sometimes pretty lengthy prison sentences can be described as dishonesty. I get what you are saying but it seems a bit light.
- Anyways a president can be charged and convicted, for sure after he leaves office. Probably while still in office. The United States v Nixon established that the president does have to comply with a subpoena for instance, something that suggests that he can be charged too, although this would most certainly go before the supreme court. The most likely outcome would be that impeachment procedures would follow, procedures by the way that don't need an actual crime to be successful
-As a side note most European countries have similar procedures of removing people from office. Berlusconi was forced to resign for instance. Willy Claes in Belgium Willy Claes - Wikipedia
John Profumo in the UK Profumo affair - Wikipedia

Do you think that Mueller is in a tug of love for Manafort ? As in he could give him a deal but trump could pardon him ?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario one: I'm not sure anything would happen. At the moment the Republican party is joined a the hip. No Republican politician can win a primary without attaching himself to Trump. This would mean that voting for impeachment regardless of evidence is political suicide.
Scenario two: Pretty unlikely. What is available in the public realm is more then enough to conclude that Trump will never be completely vindicated. Even if it's shown that Trump didn't coordinate with Russia directly. We know the people in his campaign tried on his behalf and we know that Trump was/is actively trying to hamper the investigation. Something that could very well be construed as being a crime in itself.
Not to mention this new charge of campaign finance violations.
As to what would happen, well if I'm not convinced him being guilty would prompt the Republican party then him being as clean as this wouldn't either.
Scenario three: I don't think stupidity is a valid defense in criminal cases, nor do I think guilty pleas and sometimes pretty lengthy prison sentences can be described as dishonesty. I get what you are saying but it seems a bit light.
- Anyways a president can be charged and convicted, for sure after he leaves office. Probably while still in office. The United States v Nixon established that the president does have to comply with a subpoena for instance, something that suggests that he can be charged too, although this would most certainly go before the supreme court. The most likely outcome would be that impeachment procedures would follow, procedures by the way that don't need an actual crime to be successful
-As a side note most European countries have similar procedures of removing people from office. Berlusconi was forced to resign for instance. Willy Claes in Belgium Willy Claes - Wikipedia
John Profumo in the UK Profumo affair - Wikipedia

Do you think that Mueller is in a tug of love for Manafort ? As in he could give him a deal but trump could pardon him ?

"As in he could give him a deal but trump could pardon him ?"

The Donald should not Pardon Manafort this would be a very double edge sword decision, if they get a Federal Pardon this forfeits their right to say the Fifth Amendment ie. not saying something they might think will incriminate them. Also a President can only Pardon for Federal Offences not State Offences. So they can force Manafort to answer questions about The Donald under Oath and he must answer he cannot say the Fifth Amendment and so if not answer then they will charge him and if answer incorrect then they can charge him with Perjury.

"The Fifth Amendment only protects you against self-incrimination in an undiscovered or incomplete criminal matter. If you cannot face further criminal consequences for your testimony, then you may be compelled to provide such testimony by the court.

A pardon completely removes criminal accountability for the named or described crimes, thus assuming that there are not other, related crimes that one could be charged with (such as a state crime if a Federal pardon were granted, or vice-versa), the person cannot refuse to answer questions as there is no effect of self-incrimination."

https://www.quora.com/If-a-person-r...till-have-to-testify-within-the-5th-amendment

 

[forkup]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario one: I'm not sure anything would happen. At the moment the Republican party is joined a the hip. No Republican politician can win a primary without attaching himself to Trump. This would mean that voting for impeachment regardless of evidence is political suicide.
Scenario two: Pretty unlikely. What is available in the public realm is more then enough to conclude that Trump will never be completely vindicated. Even if it's shown that Trump didn't coordinate with Russia directly. We know the people in his campaign tried on his behalf and we know that Trump was/is actively trying to hamper the investigation. Something that could very well be construed as being a crime in itself.
Not to mention this new charge of campaign finance violations.
As to what would happen, well if I'm not convinced him being guilty would prompt the Republican party then him being as clean as this wouldn't either.
Scenario three: I don't think stupidity is a valid defense in criminal cases, nor do I think guilty pleas and sometimes pretty lengthy prison sentences can be described as dishonesty. I get what you are saying but it seems a bit light.
- Anyways a president can be charged and convicted, for sure after he leaves office. Probably while still in office. The United States v Nixon established that the president does have to comply with a subpoena for instance, something that suggests that he can be charged too, although this would most certainly go before the supreme court. The most likely outcome would be that impeachment procedures would follow, procedures by the way that don't need an actual crime to be successful
-As a side note most European countries have similar procedures of removing people from office. Berlusconi was forced to resign for instance. Willy Claes in Belgium Willy Claes - Wikipedia
John Profumo in the UK Profumo affair - Wikipedia

Do you think that Mueller is in a tug of love for Manafort ? As in he could give him a deal but trump could pardon him ?

You have to ask what deal Manafort can take? He's in his sixties, any deal he takes that doesn't include him beating the rap completely might very well mean he would die in prison. At the moment the way I see it, unless Manafort has a "smoking Gun" type of evidence holding out for a pardon seems his best bet.

 

[Crepitus]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Things have changed a bit since you wrote this haven't they.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I have to say it is hugely entertaining and a credit to the US that it is taking place. Not many countries would allow this and if you are looking for an example of greatness in a nation then look no further.

Obviously we dont know what Mueller knows and so we dont know what the end results would be. But lets get ur pipes out and sketch in what migh thappen.

Scenario 1.
Democrats dream. Trump found to have colluded with Russia. Cash trail from Moscow to Mar e Lago, money owed to zillionaires linked to Putin and many,many tapes that Donny would prefer Melania not to see.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 2
Republicans dream. Trump completely vindicated. There is nothing to see here.

What would happen here ?

Scenario 3
Bit of a mixed bag. Trump shown as naive and some associates as dishonest. Doesnt look good but not enough to convict.

What would happen here ?

Is it possible to charge and convict a President ?
If 1 or 3 was the outcome could Trump continue as President ?

What is going to happen ?

Scenario one: I'm not sure anything would happen. At the moment the Republican party is joined a the hip. No Republican politician can win a primary without attaching himself to Trump. This would mean that voting for impeachment regardless of evidence is political suicide.
Scenario two: Pretty unlikely. What is available in the public realm is more then enough to conclude that Trump will never be completely vindicated. Even if it's shown that Trump didn't coordinate with Russia directly. We know the people in his campaign tried on his behalf and we know that Trump was/is actively trying to hamper the investigation. Something that could very well be construed as being a crime in itself.
Not to mention this new charge of campaign finance violations.
As to what would happen, well if I'm not convinced him being guilty would prompt the Republican party then him being as clean as this wouldn't either.
Scenario three: I don't think stupidity is a valid defense in criminal cases, nor do I think guilty pleas and sometimes pretty lengthy prison sentences can be described as dishonesty. I get what you are saying but it seems a bit light.
- Anyways a president can be charged and convicted, for sure after he leaves office. Probably while still in office. The United States v Nixon established that the president does have to comply with a subpoena for instance, something that suggests that he can be charged too, although this would most certainly go before the supreme court. The most likely outcome would be that impeachment procedures would follow, procedures by the way that don't need an actual crime to be successful
-As a side note most European countries have similar procedures of removing people from office. Berlusconi was forced to resign for instance. Willy Claes in Belgium Willy Claes - Wikipedia
John Profumo in the UK Profumo affair - Wikipedia

Do you think that Mueller is in a tug of love for Manafort ? As in he could give him a deal but trump could pardon him ?

You have to ask what deal Manafort can take? He's in his sixties, any deal he takes that doesn't include him beating the rap completely might very well mean he would die in prison. At the moment the way I see it, unless Manafort has a "smoking Gun" type of evidence holding out for a pardon seems his best bet.

"unless Manafort has a "smoking Gun" type of evidence holding out for a pardon seems his best bet."

Yes and if he has a smoking Gun type of evidence and they think he has and if The Donald Pardons him then he forfeits the Fifth Amendment and then they can force him to answer questions and testify against The Donald. If I was advising Trump I would advise him NOT to Pardon Manafort as it ONLY refer to Federal and not State so eg. if they get Manafort in a State situation then he will be FORCED to answer questions and testify he CANNOT say no and do the Fifth Amendment anymore.