Mr. President,Here Are The 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' You Promised But Never Delivered...

[GoldenSun]

Because there is strong evidence that the pipeline will kill more jobs than it will create. The Canadian portion of the pipeline has already proven to be a needless endeavor and has invaded the cost of doing business for oil refineries. That's going to be offset by higher pump prices which will in turn increase the cost of doing business for other businesses. Which will likely lead to layoffs. Currently there is no need for increased pipeline demand. Analysts predict that if the line is extended into the US, pipelines between Canada and here will operate at 50% capacity. Low capacity causes tolls per barrel to rise in order to cover construction and maintenance costs for the entire infrastructure.

I don't know that I've ever come across someone so entirely out to lunch. Do you think businessmen don't know how to do what's in their own financial best interest. 'Proven to be a needless endeavor'? How exactly? You're going to try to persuade us all that a multi-billion dollar oil company decided to invest a multi-billion dollar pipeline without determining whether or not it would be financially beneficial or cost effective for them? WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE YOU ON? How exactly do you lose jobs when people are going to be needed to build and maintain something that doesn't currenlty exist? How exactly do you lose jobs from receiving more product that needs to be refined. I thought you lefties wanted to reduce our dependence on oil from the middle east and south america. This will reduce it by nearly 10%. It's going to be underground so it will be clean and even the EPA is on record as saying, once completed, it will have little to no impact on the environment.

It's the environmentaltist wack jobs that have hijacked this and it certainly seems Obama is one of them or at least catering to them because this project has everything he claims to want. More jobs, less dependence on foreign oil, and environmentally friendly. Blocking this can only be about one thing. The fact that it's 'evil', 'dirty' oil.

Bernie80 - there's not doubt that so-called "businessmen" know how to make money - what they don't have is loyalty to the country or the American people and will do whatever it takes to pad their bottomline. This entire unrest across the nation and the world is because the poor and middle-class are being ignored for the PROFIT MAKING of BIG BUSINESS that care less about the working class.

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment for Big Oil and a foreign country? or rebuilding America?

 

[GoldenSun]

Do you have a Job? You keep scoffing at these jobs that will be created. You know,some people really need these jobs so they're nothing to scoff at. Even if the lowest estimates are accurate,which i highly doubt they are,20,000 Jobs are still nothing to just dismiss. And they're all Private-Sector jobs. No cost to the Taxpayers. So they need to quit playing politics and get this deal done. Many Americans are counting on these jobs. Time to get this done.

H that's better Mr. P - you've must of taken your meds and calmed down a bit Your still totally wrong but a bit more civil -LOL

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment? or rebuilding America?

None of us need an economist to tell us that if you take 500 billion dollars and use it to rebuild infrastructure, it would create jobs.

The question is....where do we get the money from?

And even better yet...who do you give the money to?

Gus Faucher of Moody’s:
Washington Post, Oct. 14: “Should we look at regulations and make sure they make sense from a cost benefit standpoint? Certainly. Should we reduce the budget deficit over the long run? Certainly,” Faucher said. “But in the short term, demand is weak, businesses aren’t hiring, and consumers aren’t spending. That’s the cause of the current weakness — *and Republican Senate proposals aren’t going to address that in the short term.”*

“In fact, they could be HARMFUL in the short run, if the focus is on cutting spending,” Faucher continued. “They don’t say explicitly when they would cut spending, but the Republican focus is on cutting spending sooner and later.”

Factcheck.org

 

[paulitician]

Because there is strong evidence that the pipeline will kill more jobs than it will create. The Canadian portion of the pipeline has already proven to be a needless endeavor and has invaded the cost of doing business for oil refineries. That's going to be offset by higher pump prices which will in turn increase the cost of doing business for other businesses. Which will likely lead to layoffs. Currently there is no need for increased pipeline demand. Analysts predict that if the line is extended into the US, pipelines between Canada and here will operate at 50% capacity. Low capacity causes tolls per barrel to rise in order to cover construction and maintenance costs for the entire infrastructure.

I don't know that I've ever come across someone so entirely out to lunch. Do you think businessmen don't know how to do what's in their own financial best interest. 'Proven to be a needless endeavor'? How exactly? You're going to try to persuade us all that a multi-billion dollar oil company decided to invest a multi-billion dollar pipeline without determining whether or not it would be financially beneficial or cost effective for them? WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE YOU ON? How exactly do you lose jobs when people are going to be needed to build and maintain something that doesn't currenlty exist? How exactly do you lose jobs from receiving more product that needs to be refined. I thought you lefties wanted to reduce our dependence on oil from the middle east and south america. This will reduce it by nearly 10%. It's going to be underground so it will be clean and even the EPA is on record as saying, once completed, it will have little to no impact on the environment.

It's the environmentaltist wack jobs that have hijacked this and it certainly seems Obama is one of them or at least catering to them because this project has everything he claims to want. More jobs, less dependence on foreign oil, and environmentally friendly. Blocking this can only be about one thing. The fact that it's 'evil', 'dirty' oil.

Bernie80 - there's not doubt that so-called "businessmen" know how to make money - what they don't have is loyalty to the country or the American people and will do whatever it takes to pad their bottomline. This entire unrest across the nation and the world is because the poor and middle-class are being ignored for the PROFIT MAKING of BIG BUSINESS that care less about the working class.

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment for Big Oil and a foreign country? or rebuilding America?

Yes just like all those other non-existent 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' Taxpayers paid a $Trillion for. Yea sure,lets do more of that. And the jobs they have claimed to create have cost the Taxpayers an average of $250,000 per job created. An enormous net-loss for Taxpayers. So i don't know which 'economists' you're consulting,but they sure are full of shit. More Government spending on 'Job-Creation' is just spinning your wheels in the mud. Only sinking deeper & deeper.

We're $16 Trillion and growing in Debt. The Public-Sector route has been exhausted. The Private-Sector will now have to pick up the slack. And this pipeline does that. These are the 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' he promised but never delivered. And the Taxpayer wont have to pay for them. Time to do this deal.

 

[Jarhead]

Because there is strong evidence that the pipeline will kill more jobs than it will create. The Canadian portion of the pipeline has already proven to be a needless endeavor and has invaded the cost of doing business for oil refineries. That's going to be offset by higher pump prices which will in turn increase the cost of doing business for other businesses. Which will likely lead to layoffs. Currently there is no need for increased pipeline demand. Analysts predict that if the line is extended into the US, pipelines between Canada and here will operate at 50% capacity. Low capacity causes tolls per barrel to rise in order to cover construction and maintenance costs for the entire infrastructure.

I don't know that I've ever come across someone so entirely out to lunch. Do you think businessmen don't know how to do what's in their own financial best interest. 'Proven to be a needless endeavor'? How exactly? You're going to try to persuade us all that a multi-billion dollar oil company decided to invest a multi-billion dollar pipeline without determining whether or not it would be financially beneficial or cost effective for them? WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE YOU ON? How exactly do you lose jobs when people are going to be needed to build and maintain something that doesn't currenlty exist? How exactly do you lose jobs from receiving more product that needs to be refined. I thought you lefties wanted to reduce our dependence on oil from the middle east and south america. This will reduce it by nearly 10%. It's going to be underground so it will be clean and even the EPA is on record as saying, once completed, it will have little to no impact on the environment.

It's the environmentaltist wack jobs that have hijacked this and it certainly seems Obama is one of them or at least catering to them because this project has everything he claims to want. More jobs, less dependence on foreign oil, and environmentally friendly. Blocking this can only be about one thing. The fact that it's 'evil', 'dirty' oil.

Bernie80 - there's not doubt that so-called "businessmen" know how to make money - what they don't have is loyalty to the country or the American people and will do whatever it takes to pad their bottomline. This entire unrest across the nation and the world is because the poor and middle-class are being ignored for the PROFIT MAKING of BIG BUSINESS that care less about the working class.

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment for Big Oil and a foreign country? or rebuilding America?

And I sort of answered that question with a more complete version of that question.

It makes sense to build the pipeline to create 20K jobs. It will not cost the taxpayer oney it does not have...it will reduce the dependence on oil from people that hate us...it will proive to be no more ecology unfriendly than any other major disaster with oil rigs and existing pipelines....we just need to concentrate on preventing the accidents or shut offs to minimize the damage oif there is an accident.

Borrowing 500 billion dollars to make America pretty is nice....but who in debt borrows money to rebuld a kitchen?

We can rebuild infrastructure when we can afford to do so.

Also..and something few on the left want to address...

The issue with government stimuli...like the one we had...

The government gives company A 1 billion dollars.
Comapny B gets nothing

A and B bid for a job.

A wins the bid becuase with a billion dollars it can underbid.

B loses the bid and has to lay off 100 people becuase it cant compete with A

A hires those 100 people becuase the billion dollars gave them the ability to win more biuds...

100 jobs lost

100 jobs gained

Net zero jobs

But when the report that comes out?

Stimulus created 100 jobs

That is why we kjeep hearing how the first stimulus created thousands of jobs but unemployment didnt budge.

 

[GoldenSun]

The facts:

Keystone XL is an export pipeline. The Port Arthur, Texas, refiners at the end of its route are focused on expanding exports to Europe, and Latin America. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.

Valero, the key customer for crude oil from Keystone XL, has explicitly detailed an export strategy to its investors. Because Valero’s Port Arthur refinery is in a Foreign Trade Zone, the company can carry out its strategy tax-free.

In a shrinking U.S. market, Keystone XL is not needed. Since the project was announced, the oil industry acknowledges that higher fuel economy standards and slow economic growth mean declining U.S. oil demand, even as domestic production is booming. Oil from Keystone XL will therefore displace American crude from new, “unconventional” domestic fields in Texas or North Dakota.

Valero – the Texas independent behind last year’s attempt to overturn California’s clean fuel standards – is the ONLY U.S. company among the six customers who have jointly committed to purchase 76 percent of Keystone XL’s initial capacity. The other refiners are Motiva, a joint venture between Royal Dutch Shell and THE SAUDI government, and Total of France, both of which have newly upgraded facilities in Port Arthur tax-free trade zones. There are also two Canadian producers and one international oil-trading firm in the group of six customers.

“Oil is a fundamentally global market – the idea that the pipeline enhances our energy security is a scam.” said Kretzmann

 

[Jarhead]

H that's better Mr. P - you've must of taken your meds and calmed down a bit Your still totally wrong but a bit more civil -LOL

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment? or rebuilding America?

None of us need an economist to tell us that if you take 500 billion dollars and use it to rebuild infrastructure, it would create jobs.

The question is....where do we get the money from?

And even better yet...who do you give the money to?

Gus Faucher of Moody’s:
Washington Post, Oct. 14: “Should we look at regulations and make sure they make sense from a cost benefit standpoint? Certainly. Should we reduce the budget deficit over the long run? Certainly,” Faucher said. “But in the short term, demand is weak, businesses aren’t hiring, and consumers aren’t spending. That’s the cause of the current weakness — *and Republican Senate proposals aren’t going to address that in the short term.”*

“In fact, they could be HARMFUL in the short run, if the focus is on cutting spending,” Faucher continued. “They don’t say explicitly when they would cut spending, but the Republican focus is on cutting spending sooner and later.”

Factcheck.org

yes...that is true.

No one is denying that.

But what is NOT said is this...

if we spend money on infrastructure, jobs will be created temporarily......but sooner or later, those projects will end...and we will still have the debt...and we will still need to cut spending...

So sooner or later we will need to suffer when we cut our spending.

So exactly why should we simply kick the can down the road?

Who should suffer?

Us? The ones who reaped the rewards while we spent ourselves into oblivion...

Or generations down the raod...who had nothing to do with the spending into oblivion?

 

[GoldenSun]

I don't know that I've ever come across someone so entirely out to lunch. Do you think businessmen don't know how to do what's in their own financial best interest. 'Proven to be a needless endeavor'? How exactly? You're going to try to persuade us all that a multi-billion dollar oil company decided to invest a multi-billion dollar pipeline without determining whether or not it would be financially beneficial or cost effective for them? WHAT FUCKING PLANET ARE YOU ON? How exactly do you lose jobs when people are going to be needed to build and maintain something that doesn't currenlty exist? How exactly do you lose jobs from receiving more product that needs to be refined. I thought you lefties wanted to reduce our dependence on oil from the middle east and south america. This will reduce it by nearly 10%. It's going to be underground so it will be clean and even the EPA is on record as saying, once completed, it will have little to no impact on the environment.

It's the environmentaltist wack jobs that have hijacked this and it certainly seems Obama is one of them or at least catering to them because this project has everything he claims to want. More jobs, less dependence on foreign oil, and environmentally friendly. Blocking this can only be about one thing. The fact that it's 'evil', 'dirty' oil.

Bernie80 - there's not doubt that so-called "businessmen" know how to make money - what they don't have is loyalty to the country or the American people and will do whatever it takes to pad their bottomline. This entire unrest across the nation and the world is because the poor and middle-class are being ignored for the PROFIT MAKING of BIG BUSINESS that care less about the working class.

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment for Big Oil and a foreign country? or rebuilding America?

Yes just like all those other non-existent 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' Taxpayers paid a $Trillion for. Yea sure,lets do more of that. And the jobs they have claimed to create have cost the Taxpayers an average of $250,000 per job created. An enormous net-loss for Taxpayers. So i don't know which 'economists' you're consulting,but they sure are full of shit. More Government spending on 'Job-Creation' is just spinning your wheels in the mud. Only sinking deeper & deeper.

We're $16 Trillion and growing in Debt. The Public-Sector route has been exhausted. The Private-Sector will now have to pick up the slack. And this pipeline does that. These are the 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' he promised but never delivered. And the Taxpayer wont have to pay for them. Time to do this deal.

Republican talking points all - of course the stimulus created jobs, that's documented fact - was it enough no, not to cover the millions of jobs lost during the 2008 crisis and after.
Over a decade..American taxpayers have given an estimated 4 TRILLION to so-called "job creators" to create jobs yet millions of Americans are still out of work while these "job creators have created new companies, jobs and trillions in profit IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES !
Failed Republican policies and their cost to the American Taxpayer (not included is the death of thousands of Americans lives because of these mistaken policies) -

War on Drugs ..................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Unnecessary War in Iraq.... TRILLION DOLLARS - and still rising
Afghanistan War................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Bush Tax Cuts...................... 3 TRILLION DOLLARS++ and still rising
Unfunded Medicare program... 2 TRILLION DOLLARS+ and still rising
Deregulation and other policies.......ECONOMIC CRISIS !!!!!

These are programs we are STILL paying for, THEY DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE BUSH IS NO LONGER PRESIDENT! There's more but you get the picture.

 

[paulitician]

The Taxpayers just can't afford more Government-created Jobs at $250,000 a pop. Their "Stimulus" was a monumental catastrophy. And i don't care how they spin it. The Taxpayers will be paying for it many many years from now. Forget the $Trillion number. They've added so many jobs to the Government payroll and Americans will be paying for them for several decades to come. So their "Stimulus" cost is really much much larger than that $Trillion number. It's time for Private-Sector job-creation. And this pipeline is a good start. So let's just hope they come to their senses and do this deal. Americans sure could use these jobs.

 

[GoldenSun]

None of us need an economist to tell us that if you take 500 billion dollars and use it to rebuild infrastructure, it would create jobs.

The question is....where do we get the money from?

And even better yet...who do you give the money to?

Gus Faucher of Moody’s:
Washington Post, Oct. 14: “Should we look at regulations and make sure they make sense from a cost benefit standpoint? Certainly. Should we reduce the budget deficit over the long run? Certainly,” Faucher said. “But in the short term, demand is weak, businesses aren’t hiring, and consumers aren’t spending. That’s the cause of the current weakness — *and Republican Senate proposals aren’t going to address that in the short term.”*

“In fact, they could be HARMFUL in the short run, if the focus is on cutting spending,” Faucher continued. “They don’t say explicitly when they would cut spending, but the Republican focus is on cutting spending sooner and later.”

Factcheck.org

yes...that is true.

No one is denying that.

But what is NOT said is this...

if we spend money on infrastructure, jobs will be created temporarily......but sooner or later, those projects will end...and we will still have the debt...and we will still need to cut spending...

So sooner or later we will need to suffer when we cut our spending.

So exactly why should we simply kick the can down the road?

Who should suffer?

Us? The ones who reaped the rewards while we spent ourselves into oblivion...

Or generations down the raod...who had nothing to do with the spending into oblivion?

Infrastructure building is a non-stop industry, the building of our country to compete with and to EXCEL that of our foreign competitors is the goal. Build it and the jobs and prosperity will come.
The pipeline is a temporary project - once it's built most of the jobs will be gone but Americans will forever live with the feeling of being violated by these massive intrusion on American property and the toxic and economic risks to our nation.
This is too drastic a project trade the permanent damage done for so little gain.

 

[paulitician]

Bernie80 - there's not doubt that so-called "businessmen" know how to make money - what they don't have is loyalty to the country or the American people and will do whatever it takes to pad their bottomline. This entire unrest across the nation and the world is because the poor and middle-class are being ignored for the PROFIT MAKING of BIG BUSINESS that care less about the working class.

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment for Big Oil and a foreign country? or rebuilding America?

Yes just like all those other non-existent 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' Taxpayers paid a $Trillion for. Yea sure,lets do more of that. And the jobs they have claimed to create have cost the Taxpayers an average of $250,000 per job created. An enormous net-loss for Taxpayers. So i don't know which 'economists' you're consulting,but they sure are full of shit. More Government spending on 'Job-Creation' is just spinning your wheels in the mud. Only sinking deeper & deeper.

We're $16 Trillion and growing in Debt. The Public-Sector route has been exhausted. The Private-Sector will now have to pick up the slack. And this pipeline does that. These are the 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' he promised but never delivered. And the Taxpayer wont have to pay for them. Time to do this deal.

Republican talking points all - of course the stimulus created jobs, that's documented fact - was it enough no, not to cover the millions of jobs lost during the 2008 crisis and after.
Over a decade..American taxpayers have given an estimated 4 TRILLION to so-called "job creators" to create jobs yet millions of Americans are still out of work while these "job creators have created new companies, jobs and trillions in profit IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES !
Failed Republican policies and their cost to the American Taxpayer (not included is the death of thousands of Americans lives because of these mistaken policies) -

War on Drugs ..................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Unnecessary War in Iraq.... TRILLION DOLLARS - and still rising
Afghanistan War................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Bush Tax Cuts...................... 3 TRILLION DOLLARS++ and still rising
Unfunded Medicare program... 2 TRILLION DOLLARS+ and still rising
Deregulation and other policies.......ECONOMIC CRISIS !!!!!

These are programs we are STILL paying for, THEY DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE BUSH IS NO LONGER PRESIDENT! There's more but you get the picture.

Yet you're proposing spending more money we don't have. Sorry,but Government-created jobs costing Taxpayers $250,000 a pop just isn't gonna cut it. $16 Trillion and growing in Debt isn't just gonna magically disappear. It's time for Private-Sector solutions. Let's start with these pipeline jobs.

 

[GoldenSun]

Yes just like all those other non-existent 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' Taxpayers paid a $Trillion for. Yea sure,lets do more of that. And the jobs they have claimed to create have cost the Taxpayers an average of $250,000 per job created. An enormous net-loss for Taxpayers. So i don't know which 'economists' you're consulting,but they sure are full of shit. More Government spending on 'Job-Creation' is just spinning your wheels in the mud. Only sinking deeper & deeper.

We're $16 Trillion and growing in Debt. The Public-Sector route has been exhausted. The Private-Sector will now have to pick up the slack. And this pipeline does that. These are the 'Shovel-Ready Jobs' he promised but never delivered. And the Taxpayer wont have to pay for them. Time to do this deal.

Republican talking points all - of course the stimulus created jobs, that's documented fact - was it enough no, not to cover the millions of jobs lost during the 2008 crisis and after.
Over a decade..American taxpayers have given an estimated 4 TRILLION to so-called "job creators" to create jobs yet millions of Americans are still out of work while these "job creators have created new companies, jobs and trillions in profit IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES !
Failed Republican policies and their cost to the American Taxpayer (not included is the death of thousands of Americans lives because of these mistaken policies) -

War on Drugs ..................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Unnecessary War in Iraq.... TRILLION DOLLARS - and still rising
Afghanistan War................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Bush Tax Cuts...................... 3 TRILLION DOLLARS++ and still rising
Unfunded Medicare program... 2 TRILLION DOLLARS+ and still rising
Deregulation and other policies.......ECONOMIC CRISIS !!!!!

These are programs we are STILL paying for, THEY DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE BUSH IS NO LONGER PRESIDENT! There's more but you get the picture.

Yet you're proposing spending more money we don't have. Sorry,but Government-created jobs costing Taxpayers $250,000 a pop just isn't gonna cut it. $16 Trillion and growing in Debt isn't just gonna magically disappear. It's time for Private-Sector solutions. Let's start with these pipeline jobs.

The KXL pipeline would make it easy and cost effective for oil producers in Canada to transport oil to the Gulf of Mexico where it could be shipped to customers -- not just in the United States -- but around the world.

More customers for Canadian oil means that Canadian producers can charge more for their oil, which then means that American businesses and consumers will pay more for oil.

That's a good deal for oil producers, not such a good deal for American families and businesses that need to pay for oil.

There is a Better Way:
According to Brookings, more than 2.7 million people are working in the U.S. clean energy economy right now – more than the entire fossil fuel industry put together.

Clean car manufacturers have created over 151,000 quality long term jobs in the United States while saving consumers billions of dollars at the pump.

Between 2003 and 2010, the clean energy sector grew nearly twice as fast as the overall economy.

Moreover, a recent study found the U.S. can gain as many as 1.9 million more jobs with a comprehensive energy policy.

These clean energy jobs are real, long term, and number in the millions.

WILL AMERICANS CONTINUE TO LET BIG OIL AND THEIR PAID POLITICIANS SELL OUR COUNTRY TO FOREIGN CORPORATIONS?

 

[Bern80]

Bernie80 - there's not doubt that so-called "businessmen" know how to make money - what they don't have is loyalty to the country or the American people and will do whatever it takes to pad their bottomline. This entire unrest across the nation and the world is because the poor and middle-class are being ignored for the PROFIT MAKING of BIG BUSINESS that care less about the working class.

I ask again - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment for Big Oil and a foreign country? or rebuilding America?

What is going to be toxic about it? That's the problem with you wack job environmentalists. You must have this vision in your head that an oil pipeline is some massive snake that weaves it's way through the country side, spitting oil at the seems along the way. The EPA has signed off on this Golden. And I say, since the pipeline isn't going to cost tax payers a dime, why not just approve both. It it isnt' tax dollars sitting in the way of this getting done, it's pure petty party politics.

 

[Bern80]

Republican talking points all - of course the stimulus created jobs, that's documented fact - was it enough no, not to cover the millions of jobs lost during the 2008 crisis and after.
Over a decade..American taxpayers have given an estimated 4 TRILLION to so-called "job creators" to create jobs yet millions of Americans are still out of work while these "job creators have created new companies, jobs and trillions in profit IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES !
Failed Republican policies and their cost to the American Taxpayer (not included is the death of thousands of Americans lives because of these mistaken policies) -

War on Drugs ..................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Unnecessary War in Iraq.... TRILLION DOLLARS - and still rising
Afghanistan War................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Bush Tax Cuts...................... 3 TRILLION DOLLARS++ and still rising
Unfunded Medicare program... 2 TRILLION DOLLARS+ and still rising
Deregulation and other policies.......ECONOMIC CRISIS !!!!!

These are programs we are STILL paying for, THEY DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE BUSH IS NO LONGER PRESIDENT! There's more but you get the picture.

Yet you're proposing spending more money we don't have. Sorry,but Government-created jobs costing Taxpayers $250,000 a pop just isn't gonna cut it. $16 Trillion and growing in Debt isn't just gonna magically disappear. It's time for Private-Sector solutions. Let's start with these pipeline jobs.

The KXL pipeline would make it easy and cost effective for oil producers in Canada to transport oil to the Gulf of Mexico where it could be shipped to customers -- not just in the United States -- but around the world.

More customers for Canadian oil means that Canadian producers can charge more for their oil, which then means that American businesses and consumers will pay more for oil.

That's a good deal for oil producers, not such a good deal for American families and businesses that need to pay for oil.

There is a Better Way:
According to Brookings, more than 2.7 million people are working in the U.S. clean energy economy right now – more than the entire fossil fuel industry put together.

Clean car manufacturers have created over 151,000 quality long term jobs in the United States while saving consumers billions of dollars at the pump.

Between 2003 and 2010, the clean energy sector grew nearly twice as fast as the overall economy.

Moreover, a recent study found the U.S. can gain as many as 1.9 million more jobs with a comprehensive energy policy.

These clean energy jobs are real, long term, and number in the millions.

WILL AMERICANS CONTINUE TO LET BIG OIL AND THEIR PAID POLITICIANS SELL OUR COUNTRY TO FOREIGN CORPORATIONS?

You must have failed basic econ. Price goes DOWN when supply goes up smart guy. You people are so fucking transparent it's disgusting. You don't give two shits about american jobs. What you want is to be able to dictate to people the type of energy they have to consume. The fact is fossil fuels are the cheapest form of energy there is. It is alternative energy that is going to put the real screws to people because it simply isn't cost effective for the average consumer at this time.

 

[tinydancer]

Can any Repub explain why we need a pipeline from Canada to the Gulf Of Mexico - perhaps to make it easier to ship oil to China where Big Oil can make even MORE Profits?

People the purpose of The Keystone XL Pipeline is to make it possible for CANADA to sell oil to CHINA through the gulf of Mexico.

No one has been able to answer the question - How are working class Americans BENEFITING from this massive infringement on our Country, The Keystone XL Pipeline ?

The ones that will PROFIT immensely are two Foreign Countries, Big Oil and OUR Politicians - hardworking American people SCROOGED - Again !!

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN !!
You know if Republicans are for it, it'll benefit Corporations at the cost of the American working class !!

Boy I was trying to put this a nice way, but I can't.

You're a fucking retard!!!! And you don't know jack shit about geography.

You are saying that we, the canucks, instead of taking the pipleine south thru the middle of Alberta and then hanging a quick right and heading west thru the coast thru British Columbia and being able to ship from our ports on our west coast, we instead want to build a pipeline and deal with all your enviro whacko bullshit idiots like Darryl Hannah and build a pipeline to the Gulf of Mexico.

Where our freighters would be waiting to then sail thru the Gulf of Mexico and thru the Panama Canal to the Pacific Ocean and THEN and only then head off to China.

Freaking google a map before you type a reply. Good Grief!!

 

[GoldenSun]

Curious....would you say the majority of Americans are for less dependence on middle eastern oil than those that are not? Would you say more Americans would want to see the pipeline built than not? Would you say more Americans want those 20K jobs created than not?

I ask as you seem so willing to attack Fox News...lets see how willing you are to address the topic at hand......

Mr. Jarhead - Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers


Jobs: TransCanada’s jobs projections are vastly inflated.


A rupture in the Keystone XL pipeline could cause a BP style oil spill in America’s heartland, over the source of fresh drinking water for 2 million people. NASA’s top climate scientist says that fully developing the tar sands in Canada would mean “essentially game over” for the climate.

Keystone XL is the fuse to North America’s biggest carbon bomb.

Meanwhile - economists state the President's Jobs Bill will create a MINIMUM of 275,000 American jobs rebuilding our cities infrastructure - what is the obvious choice.......

A 1,700 mile toxic tar sands pipeline down the middle of our country and environment? or rebuilding America?

Why dont we ask that question without the spin and with some additional facts.....

What is the obvious choice...

Building a 1700 mile pipeline with certain safeguards in place to minimize damage if there is a spill as we do all the time with all projects creating 20K jobs and eliminatiuon the great depoendency oon oil from our enemies..

or spend a half a trillion dollars that we dont have to rebuild America at a time when we cant afford to rebuild America.

I mean....would you re-do your kitchen if you were in serious debt?

No but I don't think I would dig up my back yard for a foreign country either -

 

[GoldenSun]

Can any Repub explain why we need a pipeline from Canada to the Gulf Of Mexico - perhaps to make it easier to ship oil to China where Big Oil can make even MORE Profits?

People the purpose of The Keystone XL Pipeline is to make it possible for CANADA to sell oil to CHINA through the gulf of Mexico.

No one has been able to answer the question - How are working class Americans BENEFITING from this massive infringement on our Country, The Keystone XL Pipeline ?

The ones that will PROFIT immensely are two Foreign Countries, Big Oil and OUR Politicians - hardworking American people SCROOGED - Again !!

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN !!
You know if Republicans are for it, it'll benefit Corporations at the cost of the American working class !!

Boy I was trying to put this a nice way, but I can't.

You're a fucking retard!!!! And you don't know jack shit about geography.

You are saying that we, the canucks, instead of taking the pipleine south thru the middle of Alberta and then hanging a quick right and heading west thru the coast thru British Columbia and being able to ship from our ports on our west coast, we instead want to build a pipeline and deal with all your enviro whacko bullshit idiots like Darryl Hannah and build a pipeline to the Gulf of Mexico.

Where our freighters would be waiting to then sail thru the Gulf of Mexico and thru the Panama Canal to the Pacific Ocean and THEN and only then head off to China.

Freaking google a map before you type a reply. Good Grief!!

Good point eh? Then why isn't Canada doing it? It's because they have no refineries is my guess - plus why ruin their own country with toxic waste.
You Must be fresh from the Bob Seger concert at ScotiaBank Place couple weeks ago.

 

[tinydancer]

Help me understand why the people would rather have a toxic tar sand pipeline through the middle of our country and all expenses and risks for a mere "possible" 20,000 jobs and reject a plan for infrastructure building and other plans that would have produced a MINIMUM of 275 THOUSAND AMERICAN JOBS?

More importantly, both are at the high end of job-creation estimates. Bloomberg News surveyed 34 economists to gauge the impact of the president’s jobs bill. Of those, 28 economists estimated how many jobs would be created by the bill. The median estimate was 275,000 jobs in 2012 and 13,000 jobs in 2013 for a total of 288,000 jobs .

Bloomberg News, Sept. 28: The legislation, submitted to Congress this month, would increase gross domestic product by 0.6 percent next year and add or keep 275,000 workers on payrolls, the median estimates in the survey of 34 economists showed. The program would also lower the jobless rate by 0.2 percentage point in 2012, economists said. …

Some 13,000 jobs would be created in 2013, bringing the total to 288,000 over two years, according to the survey. Employers in the U.S. added 1.26 million workers in the past 12 months, Labor Department data show.

Toxic tar sands? You're spewing more garbage. You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

And by the way, grab some toilet paper so when I tell you Keystone Phase 1 already goes to Illinois and Oklahoma.

Go shit yourself now.

 

[GoldenSun]

Yet you're proposing spending more money we don't have. Sorry,but Government-created jobs costing Taxpayers $250,000 a pop just isn't gonna cut it. $16 Trillion and growing in Debt isn't just gonna magically disappear. It's time for Private-Sector solutions. Let's start with these pipeline jobs.

The KXL pipeline would make it easy and cost effective for oil producers in Canada to transport oil to the Gulf of Mexico where it could be shipped to customers -- not just in the United States -- but around the world.

More customers for Canadian oil means that Canadian producers can charge more for their oil, which then means that American businesses and consumers will pay more for oil.

That's a good deal for oil producers, not such a good deal for American families and businesses that need to pay for oil.

There is a Better Way:
According to Brookings, more than 2.7 million people are working in the U.S. clean energy economy right now – more than the entire fossil fuel industry put together.

Clean car manufacturers have created over 151,000 quality long term jobs in the United States while saving consumers billions of dollars at the pump.

Between 2003 and 2010, the clean energy sector grew nearly twice as fast as the overall economy.

Moreover, a recent study found the U.S. can gain as many as 1.9 million more jobs with a comprehensive energy policy.

These clean energy jobs are real, long term, and number in the millions.

WILL AMERICANS CONTINUE TO LET BIG OIL AND THEIR PAID POLITICIANS SELL OUR COUNTRY TO FOREIGN CORPORATIONS?

You must have failed basic econ. Price goes DOWN when supply goes up smart guy. You people are so fucking transparent it's disgusting. You don't give two shits about american jobs. What you want is to be able to dictate to people the type of energy they have to consume. The fact is fossil fuels are the cheapest form of energy there is. It is alternative energy that is going to put the real screws to people because it simply isn't cost effective for the average consumer at this time.

Bern80 - Big Oil doesn't lower prices because supply goes up - the price is carefully controlled by people on Wall Street, Opec and other moguls - do you really think they will sell oil cheaper just to please gullibles like you and forsake their profit line ?

Did you forget they were selling gasoline at $5 a gallon during the crisis while they reaped the highest profit margins in history?

Someone's delusional and his initials are Bern80

 

[GoldenSun]

Help me understand why the people would rather have a toxic tar sand pipeline through the middle of our country and all expenses and risks for a mere "possible" 20,000 jobs and reject a plan for infrastructure building and other plans that would have produced a MINIMUM of 275 THOUSAND AMERICAN JOBS?

More importantly, both are at the high end of job-creation estimates. Bloomberg News surveyed 34 economists to gauge the impact of the president’s jobs bill. Of those, 28 economists estimated how many jobs would be created by the bill. The median estimate was 275,000 jobs in 2012 and 13,000 jobs in 2013 for a total of 288,000 jobs .

Bloomberg News, Sept. 28: The legislation, submitted to Congress this month, would increase gross domestic product by 0.6 percent next year and add or keep 275,000 workers on payrolls, the median estimates in the survey of 34 economists showed. The program would also lower the jobless rate by 0.2 percentage point in 2012, economists said. …

Some 13,000 jobs would be created in 2013, bringing the total to 288,000 over two years, according to the survey. Employers in the U.S. added 1.26 million workers in the past 12 months, Labor Department data show.

Toxic tar sands? You're spewing more garbage. You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

And by the way, grab some toilet paper so when I tell you Keystone Phase 1 already goes to Illinois and Oklahoma.

Go shit yourself now.

How many Failed Republican policies can this country withstand before it is totally destroyed?
Failed Republican policies and their cost to the American Taxpayer (not included is the death of thousands of Americans lives because of these mistaken policies) -

War on Drugs ..................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Unnecessary War in Iraq.... TRILLION DOLLARS - and still rising
Afghanistan War................... TRILLION DOLLARS - and rising
Bush Tax Cuts...................... 3 TRILLION DOLLARS++ and still rising
Unfunded Medicare program... 2 TRILLION DOLLARS+ and still rising
Deregulation and other policies.......ECONOMIC CRISIS !!!!!

These are programs we are STILL paying for, THEY DON'T GO AWAY BECAUSE BUSH IS NO LONGER PRESIDENT! There's more but you get the picture.

Pipeline - very bad idea !!!

 

[tinydancer]

Can any Repub explain why we need a pipeline from Canada to the Gulf Of Mexico - perhaps to make it easier to ship oil to China where Big Oil can make even MORE Profits?

People the purpose of The Keystone XL Pipeline is to make it possible for CANADA to sell oil to CHINA through the gulf of Mexico.

No one has been able to answer the question - How are working class Americans BENEFITING from this massive infringement on our Country, The Keystone XL Pipeline ?

The ones that will PROFIT immensely are two Foreign Countries, Big Oil and OUR Politicians - hardworking American people SCROOGED - Again !!

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN !!
You know if Republicans are for it, it'll benefit Corporations at the cost of the American working class !!

Boy I was trying to put this a nice way, but I can't.

You're a fucking retard!!!! And you don't know jack shit about geography.

You are saying that we, the canucks, instead of taking the pipleine south thru the middle of Alberta and then hanging a quick right and heading west thru the coast thru British Columbia and being able to ship from our ports on our west coast, we instead want to build a pipeline and deal with all your enviro whacko bullshit idiots like Darryl Hannah and build a pipeline to the Gulf of Mexico.

Where our freighters would be waiting to then sail thru the Gulf of Mexico and thru the Panama Canal to the Pacific Ocean and THEN and only then head off to China.

Freaking google a map before you type a reply. Good Grief!!

Good point eh? Then why isn't Canada doing it? It's because they have no refineries is my guess - plus why ruin their own country with toxic waste.
You Must be fresh from the Bob Seger concert at ScotiaBank Place couple weeks ago.

Oh go blow dead bears that we don't have any refineries you fool.

Oil Refineries in Canada

A

Alberta's Industrial Heartland

B

Burnaby Refinery

C

CCRL Refinery Complex

Come By Chance Refinery

D

Dartmouth Refinery

H

Husky Lloydminster Refinery

I

Irving Oil Refinery

M

Montreal East Refinery (Gulf Oil Canada)

Montreal East Refinery (Shell Canada)

Montreal Refinery

N

Nanticoke Refinery

O

Oakville Refinery (Petro-Canada)

Oakville Refinery (Shell Canada)

P

Prince George Refinery

R

Refinery Row (Edmonton)

S

Scotford Upgrader

Strathcona Refinery