Mr. Obama - "The Nation Is Waiting!"

[Baruch Menachem]

So, when Bush and McCain wanted to grant amnesty to all of the illegal aliens, just as REAGAN did, was it OK, because it was a GOP idea?

It was a dumb idea. It failed.

If you do something stupid once, and learn that it is stupid, you do not repeat the same stupid thing over again.

Not all ideas are good. The idea of conjugal furloughs for prisoners came from a Reagan appointee while he was Governor of CA. It failed and was rescinded in CA, it was tried again in OR and failed there (and resulted in OR restoring the death penalty) and why after repeated failures by Republican administrations Dukakis thought it might be a good idea for MA I have no idea.

Sometimes you have to make a mistake. But if you put your had on the stove and learn that it hurts to do that, don't keep doing it.

 

[Harry Dresden]

So, when Bush and McCain wanted to grant amnesty to all of the illegal aliens, just as REAGAN did, was it OK, because it was a GOP idea?

Reagan i believe admitted that was a blunder.....and show me any republicans,outside of politicians, that are for amnesty?......

 

[Claudette]

because they are here to cut your grass and build your pool house not take over the country moron.

What a typical left wing talking point.
They pick fruit and vegetables that are to be eaten by the less wealthy as well.
They work in factories that make clothes that are worn by all walks of life.

The problem is, they make their money and bring it back to Mexico.

Give them amnesty and they will still send it back home to Mexico.

Why do you think Mexico is all for amnesty? Why do you think the Presdient of Mexico is commenting on the Arizona law? Do you truly think that he cares that US citizens may be profiled?

Your so right.

All Calderon is concerned with is the billions of US dollars going into Mexico every year from those illegals.

He doesn't give a rats ass what it costs the US taxpayer to take care of HIS CITIZENS while they are in America. He doesn't care, period.

Of course he thinks the AZ law sucks. He would think the US sucked if we actually sealed the border. He'd lose those billions which Mexico desperatly needs.

Its all about the US dollars. Money baby.

 

[Flopper]

What a typical left wing talking point.
They pick fruit and vegetables that are to be eaten by the less wealthy as well.
They work in factories that make clothes that are worn by all walks of life.

The problem is, they make their money and bring it back to Mexico.

Give them amnesty and they will still send it back home to Mexico.

Why do you think Mexico is all for amnesty? Why do you think the Presdient of Mexico is commenting on the Arizona law? Do you truly think that he cares that US citizens may be profiled?

Keeping things in perspective...

The proposed path to citizenship is long and difficult. To become a “lawful prospective immigrant” requires registration, fingerprinting, a background check and payment of fines for having broken the law. Step two, “lawful permanent residency,” requires eight more years of residence, a crime-free record, an application for a green card, proficiency in English, the filing of tax returns and payment of back taxes. The plan was originally prepared by Senator Schumer and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a Republican.

America Magazine - A Path to Citizenship

So it would be required that they become US citizens, not just legal immigrants? That doesn't seem fair. Naturalized citizenship is a choice. No, what you are proposing be accepted is not citizenship, but amnesty. Only the first would be required, which is not fair to those that follow the rules.

I'm not proposing it. It's in the immigration bill.

Sealing the boarders and sending their ass back to Mexico has been the basis of immigration policy and it hasn't worked. Mass arrests and transportation of up to 20 million people back to their country of origin is just not going to happen. What is needed is a comprehensive practical plan which means dealing with those that are illegally living in this country.

The path to citizenship is the most controversial part of the bill and the least important. Few illegals will take advantage of it.

 

[VaYank5150]

Keeping things in perspective...

The proposed path to citizenship is long and difficult. To become a “lawful prospective immigrant” requires registration, fingerprinting, a background check and payment of fines for having broken the law. Step two, “lawful permanent residency,” requires eight more years of residence, a crime-free record, an application for a green card, proficiency in English, the filing of tax returns and payment of back taxes. The plan was originally prepared by Senator Schumer and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a Republican.

America Magazine - A Path to Citizenship

So it would be required that they become US citizens, not just legal immigrants? That doesn't seem fair. Naturalized citizenship is a choice. No, what you are proposing be accepted is not citizenship, but amnesty. Only the first would be required, which is not fair to those that follow the rules.

I'm not proposing it. It's in the immigration bill.

Sealing the boarders and sending their ass back to Mexico has been the basis of immigration policy and it hasn't worked. Mass arrests and transportation of up to 20 million people back to their country of origin is just not going to happen. What is needed is a comprehensive practical plan which means dealing with those that are illegally living in this country.

The path to citizenship is the most controversial part of the bill and the least important. Few illegals will take advantage of it.

If we can successfully put a man on the moon, win wars on multiple continents at the same time, do not tell me we can't ship these illegal aliens home....

 

[Annie]

So it would be required that they become US citizens, not just legal immigrants? That doesn't seem fair. Naturalized citizenship is a choice. No, what you are proposing be accepted is not citizenship, but amnesty. Only the first would be required, which is not fair to those that follow the rules.

I'm not proposing it. It's in the immigration bill.

Sealing the boarders and sending their ass back to Mexico has been the basis of immigration policy and it hasn't worked. Mass arrests and transportation of up to 20 million people back to their country of origin is just not going to happen. What is needed is a comprehensive practical plan which means dealing with those that are illegally living in this country.

The path to citizenship is the most controversial part of the bill and the least important. Few illegals will take advantage of it.

If we can successfully put a man on the moon, win wars on multiple continents at the same time, do not tell me we can't ship these illegal aliens home....

We do not 'round them up and ship them back.' Perhaps if done so when? Then again, if they stay off the radar of police, I don't really get worked up. Seems to me though if committed a crime, they should be sent back-whether to Mexico, China, wherever. I'd settle for no amnesty and for securing the borders and enforcing visas.

 

[Flopper]

So it would be required that they become US citizens, not just legal immigrants? That doesn't seem fair. Naturalized citizenship is a choice. No, what you are proposing be accepted is not citizenship, but amnesty. Only the first would be required, which is not fair to those that follow the rules.

I'm not proposing it. It's in the immigration bill.

Sealing the boarders and sending their ass back to Mexico has been the basis of immigration policy and it hasn't worked. Mass arrests and transportation of up to 20 million people back to their country of origin is just not going to happen. What is needed is a comprehensive practical plan which means dealing with those that are illegally living in this country.

The path to citizenship is the most controversial part of the bill and the least important. Few illegals will take advantage of it.

If we can successfully put a man on the moon, win wars on multiple continents at the same time, do not tell me we can't ship these illegal aliens home....

Imagine communities where up to 90% of the families are housing one or more illegals. Law enforcement will get no cooperation from the community. Thousands of families would be waiting in deportation camps. The media would have a field day telling the sad stories of broken families and comparing deportation camps with concentration camps. Immigration lawyers would be filling the courts with cases. Local agriculture will be faced with paying higher wages to get legal workers which meanings higher prices. The cost would be in the billions and take years. You know and I know this is not going to happen. Pretending it will is not constructive.

We need to deport those that are committing crimes, other than just being here. Document and assimilate the rest. Enforce green card and visa laws. Do a much better job of screening at the border.

 

[VaYank5150]

I'm not proposing it. It's in the immigration bill.

Sealing the boarders and sending their ass back to Mexico has been the basis of immigration policy and it hasn't worked. Mass arrests and transportation of up to 20 million people back to their country of origin is just not going to happen. What is needed is a comprehensive practical plan which means dealing with those that are illegally living in this country.

The path to citizenship is the most controversial part of the bill and the least important. Few illegals will take advantage of it.

If we can successfully put a man on the moon, win wars on multiple continents at the same time, do not tell me we can't ship these illegal aliens home....

Imagine communities where up to 90% of the families are housing one or more illegals. Law enforcement will get no cooperation from the community. Thousands of families would be waiting in deportation camps. The media would have a field day telling the sad stories of broken families and comparing deportation camps with concentration camps. Immigration lawyers would be filling the courts with cases. Local agriculture will be faced with paying higher wages to get legal workers which meanings higher prices. The cost would be in the billions and take years. You know and I know this is not going to happen. Pretending it will is not constructive.

We need to deport those that are committing crimes, other than just being here. Document and assimilate the rest. Enforce green card and visa laws. Do a much better job of screening at the border.

You tell THAT sap story to my friends who have been in this country on work permit for over 10 years, have had tens of thousands of dollars in lawyer fees just attempting to get citizenship the RIGHT way. You will get NO sympathy from those who have chosen to obey our laws.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Jan Brewer and Chris Christie are the real future of the Republican Party

 

[saveliberty]

the KKK does not give POTUS marching orders, AZ sit down and shut the fuck up!!!

When did the Supreme Court revoke freedom of speech for the people of Arizona?

Better idea: topspin, sit down and STFU.

 

[jswiftproposal]

This is the same argument that has been generated over every new wave of immigrants. Germans, Irish, Italians, Polish, etc... "They are stealing US dollars and sending them back home!!!"... because thats not what happened with the Ellis Island immigrants right!! Wrong. 60% of the immigrants who arrived in Ellis Island returned to their home country within 10 years, after sending much money back home, and bringing more with them. I would find it excruciating to find someone try to prove that that immigration was "harmful" to the U.S.

The only real difference in past immigration and current immigration is that there is a huge surge of illegal immigration. Why? Because we have imposed quotas and there is no ocean separating us from the country of origin. And if you are so upset with money going to Mexico, don't buy Ford, or Hershey's, or Colgate toothpaste, or the long list of cell phone companies that get parts made in Mexico. The average citizen of the U.S. "looses" WAAAY more money to "Mexico" in what they buy in the department stores than what legal and illegal immigrants send back home

The only reasonable argument is that they are committing a crime by coming into this country. All sane liberals do not deny that this is true, and that if they are caught, they need to be deported for breaking the law. The problem we have is that they shouldn't be forced to be here illegally. We should allow more legal immigrants, which would cut down on the number of criminally active illegals, and we could tax them on what they earn!

But no. The far right is consistently pushing to hunt illegals in a rat-terrier fashion, and wants to all but close off immigration to the U.S. Are we really arrogant enough to say "The United States is the land of opportunity for MY parents/grand-parents/previous generations, but I am not going to let it be so for YOU, because you are not me".

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

This is the same argument that has been generated over every new wave of immigrants. Germans, Irish, Italians, Polish, etc... "They are stealing US dollars and sending them back home!!!"... because thats not what happened with the Ellis Island immigrants right!! Wrong. 60% of the immigrants who arrived in Ellis Island returned to their home country within 10 years, after sending much money back home, and bringing more with them. I would find it excruciating to find someone try to prove that that immigration was "harmful" to the U.S.

The only real difference in past immigration and current immigration is that there is a huge surge of illegal immigration. Why? Because we have imposed quotas and there is no ocean separating us from the country of origin. And if you are so upset with money going to Mexico, don't buy Ford, or Hershey's, or Colgate toothpaste, or the long list of cell phone companies that get parts made in Mexico. The average citizen of the U.S. "looses" WAAAY more money to "Mexico" in what they buy in the department stores than what legal and illegal immigrants send back home

The only reasonable argument is that they are committing a crime by coming into this country. All sane liberals do not deny that this is true, and that if they are caught, they need to be deported for breaking the law. The problem we have is that they shouldn't be forced to be here illegally. We should allow more legal immigrants, which would cut down on the number of criminally active illegals, and we could tax them on what they earn!

But no. The far right is consistently pushing to hunt illegals in a rat-terrier fashion, and wants to all but close off immigration to the U.S. Are we really arrogant enough to say "The United States is the land of opportunity for MY parents/grand-parents/previous generations, but I am not going to let it be so for YOU, because you are not me".

You obviously don't know what the hell you ae talking about. Nobody save a few idiots is saying anything like this... except YOU of course.

 

[WillowTree]

So, when Bush and McCain wanted to grant amnesty to all of the illegal aliens, just as REAGAN did, was it OK, because it was a GOP idea?

Fuck no! Don't you remember a damn thing? We shut the fucking switchboards down at the WH and blew out their email boxes you dumbbie.

 

[WillowTree]

This is the same argument that has been generated over every new wave of immigrants. Germans, Irish, Italians, Polish, etc... "They are stealing US dollars and sending them back home!!!"... because thats not what happened with the Ellis Island immigrants right!! Wrong. 60% of the immigrants who arrived in Ellis Island returned to their home country within 10 years, after sending much money back home, and bringing more with them. I would find it excruciating to find someone try to prove that that immigration was "harmful" to the U.S.

The only real difference in past immigration and current immigration is that there is a huge surge of illegal immigration. Why? Because we have imposed quotas and there is no ocean separating us from the country of origin. And if you are so upset with money going to Mexico, don't buy Ford, or Hershey's, or Colgate toothpaste, or the long list of cell phone companies that get parts made in Mexico. The average citizen of the U.S. "looses" WAAAY more money to "Mexico" in what they buy in the department stores than what legal and illegal immigrants send back home

The only reasonable argument is that they are committing a crime by coming into this country. All sane liberals do not deny that this is true, and that if they are caught, they need to be deported for breaking the law. The problem we have is that they shouldn't be forced to be here illegally. We should allow more legal immigrants, which would cut down on the number of criminally active illegals, and we could tax them on what they earn!

But no. The far right is consistently pushing to hunt illegals in a rat-terrier fashion, and wants to all but close off immigration to the U.S. Are we really arrogant enough to say "The United States is the land of opportunity for MY parents/grand-parents/previous generations, but I am not going to let it be so for YOU, because you are not me".

How come you conveniently left out GM and Chrysler? You a union thug?



That's just bullshit. give these millions amnesty and you'll have millions more coming illegally and demanding guess what? amnesty.. what a buncha crap.

 

[jswiftproposal]

You obviously don't know what the hell you ae talking about. Nobody save a few idiots is saying anything like this... except YOU of course.

hmmm its called exaggeration... I just kind of noticed that that is the tone of this thread. Just pushing the same ball as everyone else.

And to the aspect of me not "know[ing] what the hell you a[r]e talking about"... what part are you so flawlessly debating? Is it the historical immigration facts? Any high school student with a U.S. history textbook could tell you the same... The companies that have factories in Mexico? Their home pages admit as much. The right wing wanting to restrict immigration even further? DUH!!! Thats what this thread is! So what do I not know what I am talking about?!!!

 

[jswiftproposal]

How come you conveniently left out GM and Chrysler? You a union thug?

That's just bullshit. give these millions amnesty and you'll have millions more coming illegally and demanding guess what? amnesty.. what a buncha crap.

I left out GM and Chrysler because I didn't know for sure that they had factories in Mexico, and I didn't feel like reasserting more examples. I am far from a union thug. The turn that Unions have taken in the past 20 years leaves a sour taste in my mouth (What!!!??! A liberal who thinks that unions aren't AWSOME???!!!). They need to shape up and learn to bend or break. That doesn't mean that they are bad, they just need to bend (and not endanger patients at hospitals like what is going on in my city of Minneapolis right now).

To your second point, I am not arguing for amnesty. The opposite actually! Anyone who came into this country illegally committed a crime. That is undeniable. I am arguing for an expansion of LEGAL immigration, so that less immigrants would have to come here illegally.

P.S. How come you so "conveniently" decided that Ford doesn't have unions? They do... so your assumption makes no sense even if I was a "union thug"

 

[peach174]

So, when Bush and McCain wanted to grant amnesty to all of the illegal aliens, just as REAGAN did, was it OK, because it was a GOP idea?

You realize we burned down the White House phone banks in 2007 protesting Amnesty, right?

So, when Bush and McCain WANTED to do it, and Reagan DID it, were they simply trying to lock up the hispanic vote as well?

No that was about the MONEY!
Repubs - money Dems - votes

 

[WillowTree]

How come you conveniently left out GM and Chrysler? You a union thug?

That's just bullshit. give these millions amnesty and you'll have millions more coming illegally and demanding guess what? amnesty.. what a buncha crap.

I left out GM and Chrysler because I didn't know for sure that they had factories in Mexico, and I didn't feel like reasserting more examples. I am far from a union thug. The turn that Unions have taken in the past 20 years leaves a sour taste in my mouth (What!!!??! A liberal who thinks that unions aren't AWSOME???!!!). They need to shape up and learn to bend or break. That doesn't mean that they are bad, they just need to bend (and not endanger patients at hospitals like what is going on in my city of Minneapolis right now).

To your second point, I am not arguing for amnesty. The opposite actually! Anyone who came into this country illegally committed a crime. That is undeniable. I am arguing for an expansion of LEGAL immigration, so that less immigrants would have to come here illegally.

P.S. How come you so "conveniently" decided that Ford doesn't have unions? They do... so your assumption makes no sense even if I was a "union thug"

Because Ford is the only AMerican car company that didn't have it's hand out for obie wan to grease their palms.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Any high school student with a U.S. history textbook could tell you the same...

no they could not....its either written not to show any negative parts...or they dont give a shit and have never read it....

 

[Flopper]

If we can successfully put a man on the moon, win wars on multiple continents at the same time, do not tell me we can't ship these illegal aliens home....

Imagine communities where up to 90% of the families are housing one or more illegals. Law enforcement will get no cooperation from the community. Thousands of families would be waiting in deportation camps. The media would have a field day telling the sad stories of broken families and comparing deportation camps with concentration camps. Immigration lawyers would be filling the courts with cases. Local agriculture will be faced with paying higher wages to get legal workers which meanings higher prices. The cost would be in the billions and take years. You know and I know this is not going to happen. Pretending it will is not constructive.

We need to deport those that are committing crimes, other than just being here. Document and assimilate the rest. Enforce green card and visa laws. Do a much better job of screening at the border.

You tell THAT sap story to my friends who have been in this country on work permit for over 10 years, have had tens of thousands of dollars in lawyer fees just attempting to get citizenship the RIGHT way. You will get NO sympathy from those who have chosen to obey our laws.

I think the way the bill is written anyone residing in the country as of Dec 2009 providing they meet the other requirement could apply for lawful permanent resident then after 8 years they can apply for citizenship. The whole process would probably take about 10 years.