Mouse Homosexuality Linked to Genes

[JBeukema]

Quick question for you people.....

Remember the African runner who ended up losing her medal? They thought she was on performance enhancers, as her testosterone levels were HUGE!

They then tested her genetically and found out that she's 60 percent male, the only thing female about her was her private parts.

Another example.........

Whenever someone goes to the sex change clinic, what is one of the first things they do? That's right......give them hormones of the gender that they want to become, resulting in dudes growing breasts and chicks getting facial hair.

What controls the hormones in the human body? That's right.....the glands that release them.

What causes those glands to form and find their right place? That's right......the DNA.

Yes, homosexuality is genetic, there are many places where it's been proven.

But, because we're more complicated physically than mice, we have more genes that determine how we're going to find a mate in life when we mature.

And the reason it scares all the homophobes? Most of 'em are closeted and are afraid that maybe they're really gay, which is why they react with such hate and fear to gays.

Straight males who are comfortable in their sexuality and know their sexual identity are RARELY ever homophobic.

Why? They know better, the homophobes are still wondering.

You were doing so well until you tried to insist that it has been proven that homosexuality is genetic in origin. This is one particualr study that I like to use to challenge that.

ScienceDirect - Journal of Theoretical Biology : Quantitative and theoretical analyses of the relation between older brothers and homosexuality in men

It seems that the more older brothers a male has, the more likely he is to be homosexual. How is that explained by genetics?

Who said genetics was responsible in all cases?

 

[JBeukema]

Twin studies conclusively prove that homosexuality is not genetic.

O rly? Care to back that up?

A portion of it might be genetic, but that is clearly not the only factor

Only you ever said it was the only factor.

 

[JBeukema]

So don't put the mice in jeans, and they won't turn gay....

How hard is that?

I've searched, in vain, for a pic of a mouse wearing jeans

You didn't try very hard

 

[LuckyDan]

"Then some of them..started..squeaking."

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkgSuQwcoE]YouTube - Monty Python: The problem with Men as Mice and Italian subs[/ame]

 

[Toome]

I guess for most simpletons, whenever a male animal is humping another male animal, it's assumed to be homosexual behavior. It's not. It's called: "domination." We do it, too. In the boardroom, the CEO does it when he stands up and looks down on subordinates, daring any one of them to say a word without his permission. In prisons, inmates do it when they rape each other.

But please do continue on with your fantasies. This is somewhat entertaining.

 

[Gadawg73]

See.......that's the problem........everyone on the Christian side (and mostly devoid of science) are looking for a single gene that causes it.

It's not that........it's more like looking Nordic, you've got to have blonde hair, blue eyes, certain other types of features, etc.

Get one of 'em wrong (brown hair and green eyes), you're no longer Nordic, which means there is more than 1 gene that causes you to look that way.

Same thing with homosexuality, there isn't just 1 gene, but a specific set of them that contributes to their behavior.

We just haven't investigated the genome enough to understand it.

But......like I said, the homophobes are gonna fight this tooth and nail.

Science is actually fighting this, and some homophobes are capitalizing on the science backing them up. The part that gets me is that people that claim they are comfortable with homosexuality insist that no one has a choice in their behavior. It does not matter to me what people choose to do in private, or even in public, as long as they do not infringe on anyone else's rights. Homosexuality only offends some people, their rights are not violated, so homosexuals can do whatever they want, as far as I am concerned.

Twin studies conclusively prove that homosexuality is not genetic. A portion of it might be genetic, but that is clearly not the only factor. Every previous study that tried to link homosexuality to a particular gene was flawed when it came to apply it to humans. We have no idea what causes a person to be homosexual, and the answer will probably not come anytime soon. It does not matter though, because they are still humans.

I tend to believe most,if not all, of that.
However, I have never known anyone that chooses to be persecuted and treated as a second class citizen as homosexuals were for centuries.
Accordingly, it may not be genetic but it is definitely not by choice. If it ain't genetic then what else is it when you are born that way?
Did you choose your sexual orientatation? No offense but I never did. I was born with mine.
That is how it works with sexual orientation. I know no one that chose so so how could it be choice?

 

[Samson]

I guess for most simpletons, whenever a male animal is humping another male animal, it's assumed to be homosexual behavior. It's not. It's called: "domination." We do it, too. In the boardroom, the CEO does it when he stands up and looks down on subordinates, daring any one of them to say a word without his permission. In prisons, inmates do it when they rape each other.

But please do continue on with your fantasies. This is somewhat entertaining.

On a message board its done by anyone using the word "Simpletons."

 

[ABikerSailor]

The brains that were examined to see if they were gay or not were examined after the person had died.

There is a definite cause in environment, but I'd be willing to bet that most of it is physiological.

 

[Immanuel]

"Mouse Homosexuality Linked to Genes"

I wonder if that is why I use a Tracball.

Immie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

See.......that's the problem........everyone on the Christian side (and mostly devoid of science) are looking for a single gene that causes it.

It's not that........it's more like looking Nordic, you've got to have blonde hair, blue eyes, certain other types of features, etc.

Get one of 'em wrong (brown hair and green eyes), you're no longer Nordic, which means there is more than 1 gene that causes you to look that way.

Same thing with homosexuality, there isn't just 1 gene, but a specific set of them that contributes to their behavior.

We just haven't investigated the genome enough to understand it.

But......like I said, the homophobes are gonna fight this tooth and nail.

Science is actually fighting this, and some homophobes are capitalizing on the science backing them up. The part that gets me is that people that claim they are comfortable with homosexuality insist that no one has a choice in their behavior. It does not matter to me what people choose to do in private, or even in public, as long as they do not infringe on anyone else's rights. Homosexuality only offends some people, their rights are not violated, so homosexuals can do whatever they want, as far as I am concerned.

Twin studies conclusively prove that homosexuality is not genetic. A portion of it might be genetic, but that is clearly not the only factor. Every previous study that tried to link homosexuality to a particular gene was flawed when it came to apply it to humans. We have no idea what causes a person to be homosexual, and the answer will probably not come anytime soon. It does not matter though, because they are still humans.

I tend to believe most,if not all, of that.
However, I have never known anyone that chooses to be persecuted and treated as a second class citizen as homosexuals were for centuries.
Accordingly, it may not be genetic but it is definitely not by choice. If it ain't genetic then what else is it when you are born that way?
Did you choose your sexual orientatation? No offense but I never did. I was born with mine.
That is how it works with sexual orientation. I know no one that chose so so how could it be choice?

See, I never said it was a choice, although I believe that choice is part of it. Science is pretty split on the issue of free will, and I am now considering coming down somewhere in the middle, some people have free will, and some don't.

I know one homosexual who insist that he made the choice, despite the possibility of persecution, I also know more who insist that they did not have a choice. Thinking back myself I always liked what I like sexually, but I also believe I choose what I actually do. The debate about free will is one that is not going to be solved anytime soon.

Let us assume that sexuality is not a choice, and that it is not genetic. It could be a result of chemical reactions in the womb from the mothers diet, or something that happens after the child is born. It could be environmental and still not be choice, or it could simply be a random fact in child development and independent of environment or genetics. The latter seems unlikely though.

 

[Douger]

Don't you mean Gerbiliz ?

 

[geauxtohell]

Please describe how genes provide for a person to be born with blonde hair and become an adult with brown hair. Document all possible variables, and accurately chart the entire process.

Has anyone found a prion yet? Last time I looked prions were used to describe certain diseases and their effect on genes, but no one has actually found one, and proven how it works. Your insistence that genetics is advanced enough to accurately describe everything that happens is disingenuous. We will get there someday, but we are no there yet.

Prions are proteins that induce, through electromagnetic force, other proteins to go from the alpha helix configuration to b-pleated sheets that stack up and result in the holes in the brain. We know the etiology and pathology of them and we can sequence them through electrophoresis and a variety of other techniques.

Prions have nothing to do with DNA.

I am sorry, but I find the rest of your comments too banal to even respond too.

 

[geauxtohell]

You're going to give him a brain aneurysm...QW is clearly making this up as he goes along.

I am still trying to wrap my mind around the whole "That's an enzyme, it has nothing to do with genetics" line.

Lesch?Nyhan syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lesch–Nyhan syndrome (LNS), also known as Nyhan's syndrome, Kelley-Seegmiller syndrome and Juvenile gout[1]:546, is a rare inherited disorder caused by a deficiency of the enzyme hypoxanthine-guanine phosphoribosyltransferase (HGPRT), produced by mutations in the HPRT gene.

Yeah, clearly the two aren't linked whatsoever.

I do not deny a link between them, or even causality. I just differentiate between the genetic portion of the disease and the biochemical one. It is possible to have all the genetic markers needed to develop LNS and not develop a severe case of LNS. Indeed, since it is recessive and passed on through the mother I could argue that most women who have the genetic traits will never develop LNS.

You think that, just because genetics and biochem are separate classes in undergrad, that they are separate in nature? Everything is intricately linked. When you take pathology it's all in there. Genetic pathologies, environmental pathologies, biochemical pathologies, etc.

LNS is X-linked recessive, not simply "recessive". X linked recessive diseases almost always affect boys since they only have one X chromosome. Girls have one functional HPRT gene to cover for the deficiency. Depending on the degree and percentage of X inactivation, women would express a variable phenotype for the disease. However, to have the true form of the disease, a male who is affected with LNS would have to mate with a female character. Since men with LNS are severely disabled and generally don't make it to adulthood, that's not likely.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Please describe how genes provide for a person to be born with blonde hair and become an adult with brown hair. Document all possible variables, and accurately chart the entire process.

Has anyone found a prion yet? Last time I looked prions were used to describe certain diseases and their effect on genes, but no one has actually found one, and proven how it works. Your insistence that genetics is advanced enough to accurately describe everything that happens is disingenuous. We will get there someday, but we are no there yet.

Prions are proteins that induce, through electromagnetic force, other proteins to go from the alpha helix configuration to b-pleated sheets that stack up and result in the holes in the brain. We know the etiology and pathology of them and we can sequence them through electrophoresis and a variety of other techniques.

Prions have nothing to do with DNA.

I am sorry, but I find the rest of your comments too banal to even respond too.

Has anyone actually found a prion?

 

[AllieBaba]

Prion!

They're apparently found near the Scotia Sea.

http://www.oceanlight.com/spotlight.php?img=24709

 

[AllieBaba]

I've never heard of the Scotia Sea before just now.

 

[txlonghorn]

It might make people feel better to lie to themselves and others and pretend as if they have no choice over what they do in life. But no one will ever truly be free until they can stop lying about it and take responsibility for their choices.

You can go on choosing your skin color, your family, your hometown, and your orientation, then.

I'll watch in bemused wonder.

How does skin color, family, hometown and orientation effect what you decide to do in life?

 

[txlonghorn]

gay mice...(snicker)

There's got to be a Pixie and Dixie parallel. LOL

 

[JBeukema]

It might make people feel better to lie to themselves and others and pretend as if they have no choice over what they do in life. But no one will ever truly be free until they can stop lying about it and take responsibility for their choices.

You can go on choosing your skin color, your family, your hometown, and your orientation, then.

I'll watch in bemused wonder.

How does skin color, family, hometown and orientation effect what you decide to do in life?

Well, I'd imagine your sexual orientation would influence whom you decide to marry or have intercourse with. Your skin colour decides whether you need to work (or whether you can just cry 'racism and reparations' until you get given free stuff and they let you intro college regardless of your test scores). Your hometown determines a lot- a man born in New York might decide to become a stylist, but that's not much of an option for someone born in a village in Sudan. Family plays a major role in forming one's mind when one is young and can determine what opportunities you have (Daddy went to Yale and was a member of Skull in Bones- you're legacy, you don't have to do shit).

 

[Gadawg73]

Science is actually fighting this, and some homophobes are capitalizing on the science backing them up. The part that gets me is that people that claim they are comfortable with homosexuality insist that no one has a choice in their behavior. It does not matter to me what people choose to do in private, or even in public, as long as they do not infringe on anyone else's rights. Homosexuality only offends some people, their rights are not violated, so homosexuals can do whatever they want, as far as I am concerned.

Twin studies conclusively prove that homosexuality is not genetic. A portion of it might be genetic, but that is clearly not the only factor. Every previous study that tried to link homosexuality to a particular gene was flawed when it came to apply it to humans. We have no idea what causes a person to be homosexual, and the answer will probably not come anytime soon. It does not matter though, because they are still humans.

I tend to believe most,if not all, of that.
However, I have never known anyone that chooses to be persecuted and treated as a second class citizen as homosexuals were for centuries.
Accordingly, it may not be genetic but it is definitely not by choice. If it ain't genetic then what else is it when you are born that way?
Did you choose your sexual orientatation? No offense but I never did. I was born with mine.
That is how it works with sexual orientation. I know no one that chose so so how could it be choice?

See, I never said it was a choice, although I believe that choice is part of it. Science is pretty split on the issue of free will, and I am now considering coming down somewhere in the middle, some people have free will, and some don't.

I know one homosexual who insist that he made the choice, despite the possibility of persecution, I also know more who insist that they did not have a choice. Thinking back myself I always liked what I like sexually, but I also believe I choose what I actually do. The debate about free will is one that is not going to be solved anytime soon.

Let us assume that sexuality is not a choice, and that it is not genetic. It could be a result of chemical reactions in the womb from the mothers diet, or something that happens after the child is born. It could be environmental and still not be choice, or it could simply be a random fact in child development and independent of environment or genetics. The latter seems unlikely though.

No, what you claim is the unlikely.
What is likely is that they are born that way. I was and you were.
No one chooses sexual orientation.