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I don't see my life in that way. I don't think I should be going out of my way to harm others, but I don't think my only purpose in life is to help others. A world exists beyond other people.
This is the selfishness that is at the root of the modern conservative movement.
This is also the opposite of what Jesus taught.
All humans are selfish. It's part of the nature of being human.
still waiting for chris the total moron to answer this one ^^^^^^^he's not "bible boy"Nor is it Jesus, Bible-boy.
he hardly knows it
unless he can come up with the scripture where Jesus ever said for Christians to have the government do what Jesus commanded Christians to do
actually, there is A LOT wrong with itstill waiting for chris the total moron to answer this one ^^^^^^^he's not "bible boy"
he hardly knows it
unless he can come up with the scripture where Jesus ever said for Christians to have the government do what Jesus commanded Christians to do
Since you appear to know the Bible better than chris, Dive....can you please show us where in the Bible did Jesus say NOT to ever have our own government give aid to the neediest?
I was under the impression that we were to ''do good, in EVERY opportunity'' and THAT does not stop at giving to my church charity....
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT DIVE....you may differ and believe we are to do good in every opportunity only when it comes to your church, or with people you know, or only with other Christians, AND NOT with complete strangers, but i believe otherwise...AND my religion or Christian Faith believes otherwise and so do many, many, many other Christians and non Christians....
YOU and others do NOT STAND ON THE HIGHER GROUND ya know....you may think you do and all of your and your new found purported Christian friends comments can take that air, but you really don't in my book when it comes to the way many of you Christians talk on these threads about this topic !
I suppose this is where freedom of religion protects people like me, from people who believe as you do, in to FORCING what you believe, on to me....and giving respect to what my Christian faith believes regarding this topic of ravi's....
I know it seems like I an using you as a punching bag...and this is probably the case out of frustration with OTHER newer posters...you and I usually agree on most, when it comes to religion.....but not on this and not on how you have treated Chris on this, ( no matter how he frustrates you)...like you are saved and he is not, just because he doesn't believe or walk lock step with how ONLY those Christians in the right wing of politics think.
you get to believe what you and your church believes about Jesus on this topic and act according to your own conscience, and I get to do the same.
WE live in a beautiful country!
care
actually, there is A LOT wrong with itstill waiting for chris the total moron to answer this one ^^^^^^^
Since you appear to know the Bible better than chris, Dive....can you please show us where in the Bible did Jesus say NOT to ever have our own government give aid to the neediest?
I was under the impression that we were to ''do good, in EVERY opportunity'' and THAT does not stop at giving to my church charity....
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT DIVE....you may differ and believe we are to do good in every opportunity only when it comes to your church, or with people you know, or only with other Christians, AND NOT with complete strangers, but i believe otherwise...AND my religion or Christian Faith believes otherwise and so do many, many, many other Christians and non Christians....
YOU and others do NOT STAND ON THE HIGHER GROUND ya know....you may think you do and all of your and your new found purported Christian friends comments can take that air, but you really don't in my book when it comes to the way many of you Christians talk on these threads about this topic !
I suppose this is where freedom of religion protects people like me, from people who believe as you do, in to FORCING what you believe, on to me....and giving respect to what my Christian faith believes regarding this topic of ravi's....
I know it seems like I an using you as a punching bag...and this is probably the case out of frustration with OTHER newer posters...you and I usually agree on most, when it comes to religion.....but not on this and not on how you have treated Chris on this, ( no matter how he frustrates you)...like you are saved and he is not, just because he doesn't believe or walk lock step with how ONLY those Christians in the right wing of politics think.
you get to believe what you and your church believes about Jesus on this topic and act according to your own conscience, and I get to do the same.
WE live in a beautiful country!
care
Jesus told YOU(assuming you are a christian) to take care of the sick and the poor
if you then take from SOMEONE ELSE how is that YOU doing it
and it is the public option thread!!!! oh gosh!actually, there is A LOT wrong with itstill waiting for chris the total moron to answer this one ^^^^^^^
Since you appear to know the Bible better than chris, Dive....can you please show us where in the Bible did Jesus say NOT to ever have our own government give aid to the neediest?
I was under the impression that we were to ''do good, in EVERY opportunity'' and THAT does not stop at giving to my church charity....
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT DIVE....you may differ and believe we are to do good in every opportunity only when it comes to your church, or with people you know, or only with other Christians, AND NOT with complete strangers, but i believe otherwise...AND my religion or Christian Faith believes otherwise and so do many, many, many other Christians and non Christians....
YOU and others do NOT STAND ON THE HIGHER GROUND ya know....you may think you do and all of your and your new found purported Christian friends comments can take that air, but you really don't in my book when it comes to the way many of you Christians talk on these threads about this topic !
I suppose this is where freedom of religion protects people like me, from people who believe as you do, in to FORCING what you believe, on to me....and giving respect to what my Christian faith believes regarding this topic of ravi's....
I know it seems like I an using you as a punching bag...and this is probably the case out of frustration with OTHER newer posters...you and I usually agree on most, when it comes to religion.....but not on this and not on how you have treated Chris on this, ( no matter how he frustrates you)...like you are saved and he is not, just because he doesn't believe or walk lock step with how ONLY those Christians in the right wing of politics think.
you get to believe what you and your church believes about Jesus on this topic and act according to your own conscience, and I get to do the same.
WE live in a beautiful country!
care
Jesus told YOU(assuming you are a christian) to take care of the sick and the poor
if you then take from SOMEONE ELSE how is that YOU doing it
well, no need to get all offendedactually, there is A LOT wrong with itSince you appear to know the Bible better than chris, Dive....can you please show us where in the Bible did Jesus say NOT to ever have our own government give aid to the neediest?
I was under the impression that we were to ''do good, in EVERY opportunity'' and THAT does not stop at giving to my church charity....
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT DIVE....you may differ and believe we are to do good in every opportunity only when it comes to your church, or with people you know, or only with other Christians, AND NOT with complete strangers, but i believe otherwise...AND my religion or Christian Faith believes otherwise and so do many, many, many other Christians and non Christians....
YOU and others do NOT STAND ON THE HIGHER GROUND ya know....you may think you do and all of your and your new found purported Christian friends comments can take that air, but you really don't in my book when it comes to the way many of you Christians talk on these threads about this topic !
I suppose this is where freedom of religion protects people like me, from people who believe as you do, in to FORCING what you believe, on to me....and giving respect to what my Christian faith believes regarding this topic of ravi's....
I know it seems like I an using you as a punching bag...and this is probably the case out of frustration with OTHER newer posters...you and I usually agree on most, when it comes to religion.....but not on this and not on how you have treated Chris on this, ( no matter how he frustrates you)...like you are saved and he is not, just because he doesn't believe or walk lock step with how ONLY those Christians in the right wing of politics think.
you get to believe what you and your church believes about Jesus on this topic and act according to your own conscience, and I get to do the same.
WE live in a beautiful country!
care
Jesus told YOU(assuming you are a christian) to take care of the sick and the poor
if you then take from SOMEONE ELSE how is that YOU doing it
assuming that i am a Christian? WHO ARE YOU? where is DIVECON? have you LOST your mind? do you even remember how many positive reps you have given me when i have argued with atheists, and you continually telling me i was wasting my time with debating them?
what are smoking?
care
now, show me where i said ANYTHING about Nukes?actually, there is A LOT wrong with itSince you appear to know the Bible better than chris, Dive....can you please show us where in the Bible did Jesus say NOT to ever have our own government give aid to the neediest?
I was under the impression that we were to ''do good, in EVERY opportunity'' and THAT does not stop at giving to my church charity....
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT DIVE....you may differ and believe we are to do good in every opportunity only when it comes to your church, or with people you know, or only with other Christians, AND NOT with complete strangers, but i believe otherwise...AND my religion or Christian Faith believes otherwise and so do many, many, many other Christians and non Christians....
YOU and others do NOT STAND ON THE HIGHER GROUND ya know....you may think you do and all of your and your new found purported Christian friends comments can take that air, but you really don't in my book when it comes to the way many of you Christians talk on these threads about this topic !
I suppose this is where freedom of religion protects people like me, from people who believe as you do, in to FORCING what you believe, on to me....and giving respect to what my Christian faith believes regarding this topic of ravi's....
I know it seems like I an using you as a punching bag...and this is probably the case out of frustration with OTHER newer posters...you and I usually agree on most, when it comes to religion.....but not on this and not on how you have treated Chris on this, ( no matter how he frustrates you)...like you are saved and he is not, just because he doesn't believe or walk lock step with how ONLY those Christians in the right wing of politics think.
you get to believe what you and your church believes about Jesus on this topic and act according to your own conscience, and I get to do the same.
WE live in a beautiful country!
care
Jesus told YOU(assuming you are a christian) to take care of the sick and the poor
if you then take from SOMEONE ELSE how is that YOU doing it
if you take money from me to pay for another, of the hundred thousand nukes we already have, then I have less money to give to the poor and needy in my own personal life.... IS THAT NOT THE SAME thing that you are saying?
If it is stealing from me, or forcing me to pay for something i vehemently disagree with and which also does not make us one ounce safer....?
Is it stealing from me when my tax dollars go towards funding the research and development for PHARMA while they then in turn charge me for the drug i funded the creation for, at a 400% markup?
Is it stealing from me when my tax dollars, goes to ENRON in $250 million tax credits, where over a 5 year period they not only paid zero in taxes but also got tax monies from all of us as subsidies?
is it stealing when several trillion in my and your tax dollars go to bail the mortgage and banking and insurance industry CROOKS out?
anyway, i just realized this is not ravi's thread!
well, no need to get all offendedactually, there is A LOT wrong with it
Jesus told YOU(assuming you are a christian) to take care of the sick and the poor
if you then take from SOMEONE ELSE how is that YOU doing it
assuming that i am a Christian? WHO ARE YOU? where is DIVECON? have you LOST your mind? do you even remember how many positive reps you have given me when i have argued with atheists, and you continually telling me i was wasting my time with debating them?
what are smoking?
care
it was not meant in that way at allwell, no need to get all offendedassuming that i am a Christian? WHO ARE YOU? where is DIVECON? have you LOST your mind? do you even remember how many positive reps you have given me when i have argued with atheists, and you continually telling me i was wasting my time with debating them?
what are smoking?
care
it was MEANT to offend me Dive, why else say it?
regardless, you are FORGIVEN!
care
you'll need to post the scripture for THAT oneChrist does not speak against society taking care of the neediest, as best as they can...
Christ does not speak against individuals taking care of the neediest, the best as they can...
Christ does speak against the Church itself taking care of the needy, because it takes away from the church spreading the Gospel and the Word.
All I know is that our government does make certain the neediest are taken care of for the most part already with means tested food credits, emergency health care, and welfare monies if need be...and i don't think that we the people specifically chose to do this because of Christ, or Buddha or Thor worship, but inside us, we for the most part, just know and want to do good under every opportunity.
care
A great example of how the left takes a phrase and re-creates it.
Personal responsibility means RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF.
Good grief.
Personal responsibility. It's self explanatory but is still beyond the comprehension of some.
keep proving me rightA great example of how the left takes a phrase and re-creates it.
Personal responsibility means RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF.
Good grief.
Personal responsibility. It's self explanatory but is still beyond the comprehension of some.
Taking care of the sick.
It's self explanatory but is still beyond the comprehension of some.
Ah. I see your problem. You think that government should not be a tool when in fact, that is exactly all that it is. A tool of the people. It does not exist to level playing fields or guarantee equal outcomes.That capitalism has weathered the all out assault upon it by a mob of small minded authoritarians pleases me to no end. But every system has its breaking point ,insofar as how many parasites it can withstand.Yeaaaaah, except that Socialism worked quite well during the 40's, 50's and 60's, the largest period of productivity growth in the history of our country.
And there was MUCH more Socialism in place during that period than in the 50 years since.
Besides, the closest thing to an historical example of your Libertarian paradise is the late 1800's when Monopolies owned everything and the worth of a human life amounted next to nil.
And those eeeeeviiilll monopolies couldn't have existed without the aid of those who have the monopoly on the use of force, to keep them going.
But hey....Seems you swallowed all of the all-that-is-great-in-America-came-from-gubmint propaganda they fed you in the gubmint schools, so your childlike naivete is understandable.
There is a difference between Capitalism and Corporatism.
One implies an equal playing field where anyone can thrive and create businesses from the ground up. The other is a world ruled by giant Conglomerates that stifle competition and will do anything to make a buck. Where government is a paid tool of the all-encompassing Corporation.
This is a battle between the ideals of Socialist Democracy and Corporate Oligarchy. Not between Socialism and Capitalism.
And Political Anarchist/Corporate Oligarchs like yourself have no idea what the world would become if we let your ideology rule.
Christians give more to the poor to any other group in history.
There is not one Christian that would turn a poor person away if that person asked for something to eat.
I help poor people on a regular basis, I send money to a family in Piaui.
Most the jobs poor people get are jobs created by Capitalism and Christians.
Christ was pretty adamant that people leave governing to the politicians. He was also adamant that people, no matter how poor, put their faith in God and give whatever they have to the church, and in return, they would be cared for. Not by the church,but by God.
Christ also advised us to be good citizens and hard workers, as long as we weren't working against God in doing so. That means if you live in South Korea, or Afghanistan, you do your best to abide by the law...provided that law doesn't fly in the face of God's laws.
Anything else brought up regarding politics is just mere supposition. YOu can be a good Christian and legally contest changes in the government in this country. But the idea that Jesus would WANT us to pursue a certain political agenda is asinine. Jesus wanted us to focus on God, not on politics.
Why one should not neglect serving the poor
Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”
Isaiah 10:1-3 " Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?”
Jeremiah 5:28 “‘Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor. ‘Should I not punish them for this?’ declares the LORD. ‘Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?’”
Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”
Ezekiel 22:29, 31 "The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice. So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD."
Amos 5:12 “For I know how many are your offenses and how great your sins. You oppress the righteous and take bribes and you deprive the poor of justice in the courts.”
Luke 6:24 " But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort."
Luke 16:19-25 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.'"
1 John 3:17 “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?”
James 5:1-6 “Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.”
Blessings on those who serve the poor
Deuteronomy 15:10 “Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.”
Psalm 41:1 “Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble.”
Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”
Proverbs 22:9 “A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.”
Isaiah 58:10 "And if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday."
Jeremiah 7:5-7 "If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever."
Matthew 19:20 “‘All these I have kept,’ the young man said. ‘What do I still lack?’ Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’"
Luke 14:12-14 "Then Jesus said to his host, ‘When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.’"
Luke 12:33-34 "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
Christ was pretty adamant that people leave governing to the politicians. He was also adamant that people, no matter how poor, put their faith in God and give whatever they have to the church, and in return, they would be cared for. Not by the church,but by God.
Christ also advised us to be good citizens and hard workers, as long as we weren't working against God in doing so. That means if you live in South Korea, or Afghanistan, you do your best to abide by the law...provided that law doesn't fly in the face of God's laws.
Anything else brought up regarding politics is just mere supposition. YOu can be a good Christian and legally contest changes in the government in this country. But the idea that Jesus would WANT us to pursue a certain political agenda is asinine. Jesus wanted us to focus on God, not on politics.
allie...
can you show us with scripture, Christ being ''pretty adamant'' that people leave governing to the politicians? And can you tell us what ''governing'' means? Not taking care of the neediest, helping the neediest??? basically, what are you saying christ was adamant about that relates to the poor and our government, and this thread?
oh, and where in scripture does it tell Christians to give what they have to THE CHURCH????? PLEASE be specific....
I believe church is NOT MENTION for the most part in every passage on how we are to treat the poor or help the poor.....
Why one should not neglect serving the poor
Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”
Isaiah 10:1-3 " Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar? To whom will you run for help? Where will you leave your riches?”
Jeremiah 5:28 “‘Their evil deeds have no limit; they do not plead the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor. ‘Should I not punish them for this?’ declares the LORD. ‘Should I not avenge myself on such a nation as this?’”
Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”
Ezekiel 22:29, 31 "The people of the land practice extortion and commit robbery; they oppress the poor and needy and mistreat the alien, denying them justice. So I will pour out my wrath on them and consume them with my fiery anger, bringing down on their own heads all they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD."
Amos 5:12 “For I know how many are your offenses and how great your sins. You oppress the righteous and take bribes and you deprive the poor of justice in the courts.”
Luke 6:24 " But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort."
Luke 16:19-25 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.'"
1 John 3:17 “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?”
James 5:1-6 “Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.”
Blessings on those who serve the poor
Deuteronomy 15:10 “Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.”
Psalm 41:1 “Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble.”
Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”
Proverbs 22:9 “A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.”
Isaiah 58:10 "And if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry and satisfy the needs of the oppressed, then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday."
Jeremiah 7:5-7 "If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your forefathers for ever and ever."
Matthew 19:20 “‘All these I have kept,’ the young man said. ‘What do I still lack?’ Jesus answered, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’"
Luke 14:12-14 "Then Jesus said to his host, ‘When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.’"
Luke 12:33-34 "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."
i don't see church mentioned...it is WITHIN SOCIETY, secular things that are spoken about....national things as well...
wowChrist was pretty adamant that people leave governing to the politicians. He was also adamant that people, no matter how poor, put their faith in God and give whatever they have to the church, and in return, they would be cared for. Not by the church,but by God.
Christ also advised us to be good citizens and hard workers, as long as we weren't working against God in doing so. That means if you live in South Korea, or Afghanistan, you do your best to abide by the law...provided that law doesn't fly in the face of God's laws.
Anything else brought up regarding politics is just mere supposition. YOu can be a good Christian and legally contest changes in the government in this country. But the idea that Jesus would WANT us to pursue a certain political agenda is asinine. Jesus wanted us to focus on God, not on politics.
