CDZ Moses Was a Real Historical Person

[JimBowie1958]

Earth and plant life do not have the ability to transgress God’s will and thus were capable of being created via the higher spiritual power of primordial light.
God does not need condensed physical entities to carry out his will...angels are spiritual entities.

I agree that what you say is possible, but I don't hink it as plausible as simple recorded oral history from the Toba Cataclysm.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Johnny Appleseed was definitely a real person.

Lol, it is amazing how some people cannot distinguish between historical record and recorded mythology.

I just gave a plausible time line and naturalistic explanation for everything in Exodus.

But you are well within your right to remain uninformed if you wish.

 

[Indeependent]

Earth and plant life do not have the ability to transgress God’s will and thus were capable of being created via the higher spiritual power of primordial light.
God does not need condensed physical entities to carry out his will...angels are spiritual entities.

I agree that what you say is possible, but I don't hink it as plausible as simple recorded oral history from the Toba Cataclysm.

For me it’s Torah analysis.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

I am amazed at all the 'professional' historians who say ridiculous things like 'There is no record of the Plagues, the Exodus or of a man named Moses.'

1) The Egyptian literature is full of horrible descriptions of their society from the First and Second Intermediary Periods. Here is an example:

Nay, but the heart is violent. Plague stalks through the land and blood is everywhere. . . . Nay, but the river is blood. Does a man drink from it? As a human he rejects it. He thirsts for water. . . . Nay, but gates, columns and walls are consumed with fire. … Nay but men are few. He that lays his brother in the ground is everywhere. . . . Nay but the son of the high-born man is no longer to be recognized. . . . The stranger people from outside are come into Egypt. . . . Nay, but corn has perished everywhere. People are stripped of clothing, perfume, and oil. Everyone says “there is no more.” The storehouse is bare. . . . It has come to this. The king has been taken away by poor men. — Ipuwer Papyrus, Leiden Museum5​

What do these knucklehead historians want? A timed and dated stamped document that spells out the Exodus by verse and text?

The Thera eruption in 1575 BC or so probably produced effects exactly like those described in Exodus.

2) The mouth of the Gulf of Aqaba, AKA the straight of Tiron, is very shallow and narrow and would have been a perfect way to cross the Red Sea, in fact chariot wheels and other wreckage have been found there.

3) No one named Moses in Egypt? LOL, there were plenty of such people named Moses as it was a brief version of any number of nomens like Ahmose or Thutmose, etc, the first syllable being dropped and last syllable being converted to 'Moses'. There are recorded examples of this sort of thing. It is ridiculous to say there no examples of Moses, lolol. That is like saying we have had no Presidents named 'Ricky', lol.

4) Here is a plausible timeline for the Hebrew experience in Egypt.

a) Canaanite tribes migrate into Egypt: 1990 to 1800 BC - this wasn't just Israelites but all kinds of Canaanites. They settle into the area around the Eastern side of the Nile delta and east of it; the Land of Goshen.

b) Hyksos invade Egypt and take over the Canaanite area eastern Nile Delta, then expand to all of lower Egypt. 1650 BC

c) Hyksos king Khyan reigns powerfully over a wealthy Lower Egypt 1610–1580 BC (15th Dynasty)
.....Yanassi his son is mentioned, but no one knows what happened to him, he disappears

d) Thera Volcanic eruption 1575 - causes catastrophic events in Egypt and hastens the end of the Bronze Age civilizations. Egyptian records are full of short ruling kings and warfare in what is called the Second Intermediary Period. Chaos reigns.

e) Apepi reigns over a ruined Lower Egypt and is impoverished. Crowned 1575 BC dies childless in 1540 BC He cannot afford to have his own monuments built so he simply has his name copied over the monuments of other previous kings. Hebrews allowed to leave a ruined and impoverished Egypt.

f) Jericho falls in violent conquest, its walls collapsed outward and burned in fire in 1535 BC based on archeological evidence. The Hebrews had finished 40 years of wandering and arrived in Canaan.

g) The Merneptah Stele recording Israels defeat by Egypt in 1213-1203 BC, so this disproves any later dating after that range of dates.


Moses is referenced by dozens and dozens of ancient writings of many cultures.

To suggest he is purely myth requires the kind of 'thinking' one only finds in Academia.

 

[Staidhup]

To embrace God or reject him is your personal choice, it has to come from the heart, you have no right to criticize or ridicule one for their religious beliefs.

 

[Syriusly]

I am amazed at all the 'professional' historians who say ridiculous things like 'There is no record of the Plagues, the Exodus or of a man named Moses.'

1) The Egyptian literature is full of horrible descriptions of their society from the First and Second Intermediary Periods. Here is an example:

Nay, but the heart is violent. Plague stalks through the land and blood is everywhere. . . . Nay, but the river is blood. Does a man drink from it? As a human he rejects it. He thirsts for water. . . . Nay, but gates, columns and walls are consumed with fire. … Nay but men are few. He that lays his brother in the ground is everywhere. . . . Nay but the son of the high-born man is no longer to be recognized. . . . The stranger people from outside are come into Egypt. . . . Nay, but corn has perished everywhere. People are stripped of clothing, perfume, and oil. Everyone says “there is no more.” The storehouse is bare. . . . It has come to this. The king has been taken away by poor men. — Ipuwer Papyrus, Leiden Museum5​

What do these knucklehead historians want? A timed and dated stamped document that spells out the Exodus by verse and text?

The Thera eruption in 1575 BC or so probably produced effects exactly like those described in Exodus.

2) The mouth of the Gulf of Aqaba, AKA the straight of Tiron, is very shallow and narrow and would have been a perfect way to cross the Red Sea, in fact chariot wheels and other wreckage have been found there.

3) No one named Moses in Egypt? LOL, there were plenty of such people named Moses as it was a brief version of any number of nomens like Ahmose or Thutmose, etc, the first syllable being dropped and last syllable being converted to 'Moses'. There are recorded examples of this sort of thing. It is ridiculous to say there no examples of Moses, lolol. That is like saying we have had no Presidents named 'Ricky', lol.

4) Here is a plausible timeline for the Hebrew experience in Egypt.

a) Canaanite tribes migrate into Egypt: 1990 to 1800 BC - this wasn't just Israelites but all kinds of Canaanites. They settle into the area around the Eastern side of the Nile delta and east of it; the Land of Goshen.

b) Hyksos invade Egypt and take over the Canaanite area eastern Nile Delta, then expand to all of lower Egypt. 1650 BC

c) Hyksos king Khyan reigns powerfully over a wealthy Lower Egypt 1610–1580 BC (15th Dynasty)
.....Yanassi his son is mentioned, but no one knows what happened to him, he disappears

d) Thera Volcanic eruption 1575 - causes catastrophic events in Egypt and hastens the end of the Bronze Age civilizations. Egyptian records are full of short ruling kings and warfare in what is called the Second Intermediary Period. Chaos reigns.

e) Apepi reigns over a ruined Lower Egypt and is impoverished. Crowned 1575 BC dies childless in 1540 BC He cannot afford to have his own monuments built so he simply has his name copied over the monuments of other previous kings. Hebrews allowed to leave a ruined and impoverished Egypt.

f) Jericho falls in violent conquest, its walls collapsed outward and burned in fire in 1535 BC based on archeological evidence. The Hebrews had finished 40 years of wandering and arrived in Canaan.

g) The Merneptah Stele recording Israels defeat by Egypt in 1213-1203 BC, so this disproves any later dating after that range of dates.


Moses is referenced by dozens and dozens of ancient writings of many cultures.

To suggest he is purely myth requires the kind of 'thinking' one only finds in Academia.

Who is saying that no plagues and no one named Moses in Egypt?

What we don't have is any evidence that the Moses of the Bible ever existed- but certainly he could have.
And we don't have any evidence that the Plague of the Bible happened- though certainly the Bible could be referencing one of the many, many plagues that hit Egypt.
And we don't have any evidence that the Red Sea was parted and swallowed an Egyptian army- even though there are those who have come up with convoluted ways it could have happened.

My personal opinion is that these myths are certainly inspired- in part at least- from real events. Which are real, which are just the imagined story telling of nomads telling stories under the desert stars I doubt we will ever know for certain.

But it is fun to speculate.

 

[ReinyDays]

Why would the Egyptians record what is clearly one of the most shameful event in their long history ... folks don't build monumental structures celebrating their defeats ... even if these events were recorded by Pharaoh's own scribes, these texts would have been destroyed after they hung the scribe ... and it's immaterial to the faithful, it's a tale with deeper spiritual meaning with some real insights into the human condition ... if you don't believe that "In the beginning, God created heaven and earth", don't bother reading any further, not much will make any sense ...

 

[Hossfly]

Such is the human race in this day and age it often seems a pity that Noah didn't miss the boat.
~~~Anon

 

[beautress]

I am amazed at all the 'professional' historians who say ridiculous things like 'There is no record of the Plagues, the Exodus or of a man named Moses.'

1) The Egyptian literature is full of horrible descriptions of their society from the First and Second Intermediary Periods. Here is an example:

Nay, but the heart is violent. Plague stalks through the land and blood is everywhere. . . . Nay, but the river is blood. Does a man drink from it? As a human he rejects it. He thirsts for water. . . . Nay, but gates, columns and walls are consumed with fire. … Nay but men are few. He that lays his brother in the ground is everywhere. . . . Nay but the son of the high-born man is no longer to be recognized. . . . The stranger people from outside are come into Egypt. . . . Nay, but corn has perished everywhere. People are stripped of clothing, perfume, and oil. Everyone says “there is no more.” The storehouse is bare. . . . It has come to this. The king has been taken away by poor men. — Ipuwer Papyrus, Leiden Museum5​

What do these knucklehead historians want? A timed and dated stamped document that spells out the Exodus by verse and text?

The Thera eruption in 1575 BC or so probably produced effects exactly like those described in Exodus.

2) The mouth of the Gulf of Aqaba, AKA the straight of Tiron, is very shallow and narrow and would have been a perfect way to cross the Red Sea, in fact chariot wheels and other wreckage have been found there.

3) No one named Moses in Egypt? LOL, there were plenty of such people named Moses as it was a brief version of any number of nomens like Ahmose or Thutmose, etc, the first syllable being dropped and last syllable being converted to 'Moses'. There are recorded examples of this sort of thing. It is ridiculous to say there no examples of Moses, lolol. That is like saying we have had no Presidents named 'Ricky', lol.

4) Here is a plausible timeline for the Hebrew experience in Egypt.

a) Canaanite tribes migrate into Egypt: 1990 to 1800 BC - this wasn't just Israelites but all kinds of Canaanites. They settle into the area around the Eastern side of the Nile delta and east of it; the Land of Goshen.

b) Hyksos invade Egypt and take over the Canaanite area eastern Nile Delta, then expand to all of lower Egypt. 1650 BC

c) Hyksos king Khyan reigns powerfully over a wealthy Lower Egypt 1610–1580 BC (15th Dynasty)
.....Yanassi his son is mentioned, but no one knows what happened to him, he disappears

d) Thera Volcanic eruption 1575 - causes catastrophic events in Egypt and hastens the end of the Bronze Age civilizations. Egyptian records are full of short ruling kings and warfare in what is called the Second Intermediary Period. Chaos reigns.

e) Apepi reigns over a ruined Lower Egypt and is impoverished. Crowned 1575 BC dies childless in 1540 BC He cannot afford to have his own monuments built so he simply has his name copied over the monuments of other previous kings. Hebrews allowed to leave a ruined and impoverished Egypt.

f) Jericho falls in violent conquest, its walls collapsed outward and burned in fire in 1535 BC based on archeological evidence. The Hebrews had finished 40 years of wandering and arrived in Canaan.

g) The Merneptah Stele recording Israels defeat by Egypt in 1213-1203 BC, so this disproves any later dating after that range of dates.


Moses is referenced by dozens and dozens of ancient writings of many cultures.

To suggest he is purely myth requires the kind of 'thinking' one only finds in Academia.

View attachment 278776

Deplorable Yankee, your showing of the picture of Noah sent me to Youtube, where I found a movie on the Elijah story I'd been looking for for a long time. So thanks.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Of course you don't believe, you have no faith.

Which is worthy of respect.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I just gave a plausible time line and naturalistic explanation for everything in Exodus.

Right! And if you ignore all the ridiculous, magical parts and the historical errors, and squint real hard, it fits perfectly!

 

[beautress]

Such is the human race in this day and age it often seems a pity that Noah didn't miss the boat.
~~~Anon

I dunno. Noah was a weak-kneed alcoholic who fathered children with both of his daughters....

The lefties of this generation just go into jive talk when they look at President Trump's father-daughter pictures in which he smiles so proudly to be with his grown up baby girl. That's what's hard for me to figure. Reading into a picture activity that just isn't there.

People are still human beings, which is something that can quite easily be chisled into a false narrative, apparently.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The lefties of this generation just go into jive talk when they look at President Trump's father-daughter pictures in which he smiles so proudly to be with his grown up baby girl. That's what's hard for me to figure. Reading into a picture activity that just isn't there.

Right! Because she is his daughter. Trump made that clear. He made it clear that would totally fuck her, were she not his daughter. That's on the record. So people would be silly to think otherwise.

 

[JoeB131]

I dunno. Noah was a weak-kneed alcoholic who fathered children with both of his daughters....

Again, where does it say that in the Bible? In fact, the bible doesn't mention Noah having any daughters, just three sons, Shem, Ham and Japeth.

The lefties of this generation just go into jive talk when they look at President Trump's father-daughter pictures in which he smiles so proudly to be with his grown up baby girl. That's what's hard for me to figure. Reading into a picture activity that just isn't there.

Yes, nothing creepy about this at all.

 

[fncceo]

This kid comes home from Hebrew school and his father asks him, "What did you learn in shul today, son?"

The son says, "We learned how when the army of General Pharaoh was attacking the army of General Moses, General Moses used a tactical nuclear weapon to vaporize the Red Sea so his army could retreat over the temporarily dry sea. The fallout and blast destroyed the army of General Pharaoh."

The father says, "Is that what they taught you in Hebrew school?!"

The son says, "No ... but you would never believe the story they did tell us."

 

[The European with joy]

Its Moses and Allah we love.

 

[JoeMoma]

Where are the links? I want proof as I do not believe the story of Moses or the story of the exodus.

Jerusalem Talmud | religious text
Jerusalem Talmud, also called Palestinian Talmud or in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Yiddish Talmud Yerushalmi, byname Yerushalmi, one of two compilations of Jewish religious teachings and commentary that was transmitted orally for centuries prior to its compilation by Jewish scholars in Palestine. The other such compilation, produced in Babylon, is called the Babylonian Talmud, or Talmud Bavli.

If Moses isn't a real person, then who is the author of the Torah? Who went to Sinai to chat with Almighty God and bring down the 10 commandments?

Who led the Jewish people through the desert for 40 years? Who parted the waters of the Red Sea to allow them to pass.

Moe did a lot of tremendous things, libs should really offer an alternative theory

Firstly you would have to demonstrate that any of those events actually happened. The idea that thousands upon thousands of people were “lost” in the desert for 40 years, within such a small geographic region, as is between Egypt, and Israel is fucking hilarious to the point of absurdity. It’s 265 miles between Cairo, and Jerusalem for fucks sake!!!
The same lack of evidence, and the absurdity of the claims made; make the Biblical account a cheeky fable. Nothing more...

They were not "lost" in the desert for 40 years. God made them wander the desert for 40 years because they did not trust God to deliver the promise land unto them. At least that's how the bible story goes. They had to wander for 40 years so that the older generation would die off before the next generation got to cross the Jordan River into the promised land. They were not lost.

 

[JoeB131]

They were not "lost" in the desert for 40 years. God made them wander the desert for 40 years because they did not trust God to deliver the promise land unto them. At least that's how the bible story goes. They had to wander for 40 years so that the older generation would die off before the next generation got to cross the Jordan River into the promised land. They were not lost.

That's kind of dumb, too. On foot, that trip would have only taken a couple of weeks.

 

[Syriusly]

Why would the Egyptians record what is clearly one of the most shameful event in their long history ... folks don't build monumental structures celebrating their defeats ... even if these events were recorded by Pharaoh's own scribes, these texts would have been destroyed after they hung the scribe ... and it's immaterial to the faithful, it's a tale with deeper spiritual meaning with some real insights into the human condition ... if you don't believe that "In the beginning, God created heaven and earth", don't bother reading any further, not much will make any sense ...

Or it never happened.

 

[Blackrook]

Moses got a lot accomplished for a person that didn't exist. Perhaps if he had existed, we'd have Twenty Commandments instead of only Ten. We'd have ten books in the Torah instead of just five. We'd have three Israels instead of just one.