more totalitarian bullshit from the supreme court

Not sure how I feel about this yet.

Here's the html of the Court's opinion:

08-1498 Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project (06/21/2010)

Congress has prohibited the provision of “material support or resources” to certain foreign organizations that engage in terrorist activity. 18 U. S. C. ง2339B(a)(1).That prohibition is based on a finding that the specified organizations “are so tainted by their criminal conductthat any contribution to such an organization facilitates that conduct.” Antiterrorism and Effective Death PenaltyAct of 1996 (AEDPA), ง301(a)(7), 110 Stat. 1247, notefollowing 18 U. S. C. ง2339B (Findings and Purpose). The plaintiffs in this litigation seek to provide support to two such organizations.​

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Congress has amended the definition of “material support or resources” periodically, but at present it is defined as follows:“[T]he term ‘material support or resources’ means anyproperty, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities,weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who may be or include oneself),and transportation, except medicine or religious maญterials.” ง2339A(b)(1); see also ง2339B(g)(4)​

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The authority to designate an entity a “foreign terrorist organization” rests with the Secretary of State. 8 U. S. C.งง1189(a)(1), (d)(4). She may, in consultation with theSecretary of the Treasury and the Attorney General, so designate an organization upon finding that it is foreign,engages in “terrorist activity” or “terrorism,” and thereby“threatens the security of United States nationals or the national security of the United States.” งง1189(a)(1),(d)(4). “‘[N]ational security’ means the national defense,foreign relations, or economic interests of the UnitedStates.” ง1189(d)(2)​

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As relevant here, plaintiffs claimed that the material support statute was unconstitutional on two grounds:First, it violated their freedom of speech and freedom ofassociation under the First Amendment, because it crimiญnalized their provision of material support to the PKK andthe LTTE, without requiring the Government to provethat plaintiffs had a specific intent to further the unlawfulends of those organizations. Id., at 1184. Second, plainญtiffs argued that the statute was unconstitutionally vague.​

It seems weird that this is the same court that handed down the Citizens United case. Their reading of the First in that case showed a mistrust of restrictions on political speech, but they didn't seem to apply that same mistrust to this case. :confused:

Should an American citizen (or group of) be allowed to provide aid to groups on the government's list of terrorist groups? My first impression is to say that a categorical "no" wouldn't square with political speech and freedom of assembly protected by the First. And I'm with plaintiffs about their claim that "aid" is too vague. But there's probably more to this than meets the eye.
 
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.
 
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.
 
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

so you the trust the government with sole discretion on who is a terrorist group? and you realize this decision dealt with groups that posed no threat to the usa but were separatist groups in their own country that we decided to label terrorists? Also, I am sure you will be calling for all taxpayers to be charged with treason as we give money to hamas and they are a terrorist group as well by our list
 
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

so you the trust the government with sole discretion on who is a terrorist group? and you realize this decision dealt with groups that posed no threat to the usa but were separatist groups in their own country that we decided to label terrorists? Also, I am sure you will be calling for all taxpayers to be charged with treason as we give money to hamas and they are a terrorist group as well by our list

Do you realize that their is a federal law which the President MUST adhere to when defining a group as a terrorist organization? He can't just say "you're a terror group now buddy" :lol:

U.S. Code Title 18, Section 2331

As used in this chapter -
(1) the term "international terrorism" means activities that -
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that
are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of
any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed
within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended -
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by
intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass
destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of
the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they
appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which
their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;
(2) the term "national of the United States" has the meaning
given such term in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and
Nationality Act;
(3) the term "person" means any individual or entity capable of
holding a legal or beneficial interest in property;
(4) the term "act of war" means any act occurring in the course
of -
(A) declared war;
(B) armed conflict, whether or not war has been declared,
between two or more nations; or
(C) armed conflict between military forces of any origin; and
(5) the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that -
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation
of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended -
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by
intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass
destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States.

SOURCE

(Added Pub. L. 102-572, title X, Sec. 1003(a)(3), Oct. 29, 1992,
106 Stat. 4521; amended Pub. L. 107-56, title VIII, Sec. 802(a),
Oct. 26, 2001, 115 Stat. 376.)

REFERENCES IN TEXT

Section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act,
referred to in par. (2), is classified to section 1101(a)(22) of
Title 8, Aliens and Nationality.

PRIOR PROVISIONS

A prior section 2331 was renumbered 2332 of this title.
AMENDMENTS
2001 - Par. (1)(B)(iii). Pub. L. 107-56, Sec. 802(a)(1),
substituted "by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping" for
"by assassination or kidnapping".
Par. (5). Pub. L. 107-56, Sec. 802(a)(2)-(4), added par. (5).
EFFECTIVE DATE
Section 1003(c) of Pub. L. 102-572 provided that: "This section
[enacting this section and sections 2333 to 2338 of this title,
amending former section 2331 of this title, and renumbering former
section 2331 of this title as 2332] and the amendments made by this
section shall apply to any pending case or any cause of action
arising on or after 4 years before the date of enactment of this
Act [Oct. 29, 1992]."
SHORT TITLE OF 2004 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 108-458, title VI, Sec. 6601, Dec. 17, 2004, 118 Stat.
3761, provided that: "This subtitle [subtitle G (Secs. 6601-6604)
of title VI of Pub. L. 108-458, enacting section 2339D of this
title, amending sections 2332b and 2339A to 2339C of this title,
and enacting provisions set out as a note under section 2332b of
this title] may be cited as the 'Material Support to Terrorism
Prohibition Enhancement Act of 2004'."
SHORT TITLE OF 2002 AMENDMENT
Pub. L. 107-197, title I, Sec. 101, June 25, 2002, 116 Stat. 721,
provided that: "This title [enacting section 2332f of this title
and provisions set out as notes under section 2332f of this title]
may be cited as the 'Terrorist Bombings Convention Implementation
Act of 2002'."
Pub. L. 107-197, title II, Sec. 201, June 25, 2002, 116 Stat.
724, provided that: "This title [enacting section 2339C of this
title and provisions set out as notes under section 2339C of this
title] may be cited as the 'Suppression of the Financing of
Terrorism Convention Implementation Act of 2002'."
 
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

so you the trust the government with sole discretion on who is a terrorist group? and you realize this decision dealt with groups that posed no threat to the usa but were separatist groups in their own country that we decided to label terrorists? Also, I am sure you will be calling for all taxpayers to be charged with treason as we give money to hamas and they are a terrorist group as well by our list
Redacto in absurdum

You are a loon to basically try and translate the "If Al Quaeda isn't free to commit mass murder, none of us is free" argument. You damn well know that all aid that goes to these places is immedeately used to support the terrorists effort if only to free up funds elsewhere. To deny that makes you a bigger idiot than I estimated you to be.

Right now I don't trust our government to sit the right way on a shitter. They've deemed the middle class their enemy, have embraced radical socialism as rational thought and have put us on a collision course for national insolvency all for a quest of personal power, hoping to be one of the few that get off in a lifeboat before the nation sinks like a stone.

That being said the American people elected them to BE the authority that makes these decisions. You don't have an individual right to fund terrorists. Besides, what do you collective relativists know of individual rights and responsibilities? You just want to do what you want and have say in what other people do. Collectivism is great for other people but not for you.

I should amend my base statement about those who worship the alter of Liberalism/Marxism/Socialism/Progressivism/Communism/Fascism. It is the codification of hate, revenge, jealousy AND hypocrisy... for ultimately, they wish to be exempted from the world they create.
 
If you are correct that free speech does not include anti government speech, then you should be able to point to the fact that every justice agrees with your position, and the decision is unanimous. Unfortunately for you, you cannot. This is one of the dumbest decisions ever handed down by the court.

Section 3
Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make or convey false reports...with intent to interfere with the operation...of the military or naval forces of the United States...
or say or do anything...to an investor...with intent to obstruct the sale by the United States of bonds or other securities...
and whoever when the United States is at war, shall willfully cause or attempt to cause...insubordination... in the military or naval forces of the United States,
or shall willfully obstruct or attempt to obstruct the recruiting or enlistment services of the United States
and whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully utter, print, write or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States or the Constitution...or the military or naval forces of the United States, or the flag...
or shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any language intended to incite, provoke, or encourage resistance to the United States...
or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign enemy
or shall willfully by utterance, writing, printing, publication, or language spoken, urge...any curtailment of production in this country of any thing...necessary...to the prosecution of the war...
and whoever shall willfully advocate...the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated...or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war...
shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or the imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both....
Section 4
When the United States is at war, the Postmaster General may, upon evidence...that any person...is using the mails in violation...of this Act, instruct the postmaster at any post office at which mail is received addressed to such person..to return to the postmaster at the office at which they were originally mailed all letters or other matter so addressed...

Sedition Act of 1918

Are you seriously trying to trump me with the Sedition Act? Get real.

I'm seriously trying to tell you that free speech has its limitations.
 
how come the wimps who start these threads never answer the questions?

"do you think it's okay to aid terrorist"?
 
fuck marshall

High Court: Americans Can’t Help Terrorists Liveshots

now we can't send non-violent etc aid to some group just because some asshole in DC calls them a terrorist group?

So you think it should be ok to help terrorist?

I don't trust the US government to be able to choose arbitary groups as terrorists. when gun control laws are put into effect and the NRA becomes a terrorist group I will see how you feel.

How much do you know about PKK or LTTE?

Are you seriously trying to equate the two groups I mentioned with the NRA?
 
If you are correct that free speech does not include anti government speech, then you should be able to point to the fact that every justice agrees with your position, and the decision is unanimous. Unfortunately for you, you cannot. This is one of the dumbest decisions ever handed down by the court.

Section 3
Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make or convey false reports...with intent to interfere with the operation...of the military or naval forces of the United States...
or say or do anything...to an investor...with intent to obstruct the sale by the United States of bonds or other securities...
and whoever when the United States is at war, shall willfully cause or attempt to cause...insubordination... in the military or naval forces of the United States,
or shall willfully obstruct or attempt to obstruct the recruiting or enlistment services of the United States
and whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully utter, print, write or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States or the Constitution...or the military or naval forces of the United States, or the flag...
or shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any language intended to incite, provoke, or encourage resistance to the United States...
or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign enemy
or shall willfully by utterance, writing, printing, publication, or language spoken, urge...any curtailment of production in this country of any thing...necessary...to the prosecution of the war...
and whoever shall willfully advocate...the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated...or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war...
shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or the imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both....
Section 4
When the United States is at war, the Postmaster General may, upon evidence...that any person...is using the mails in violation...of this Act, instruct the postmaster at any post office at which mail is received addressed to such person..to return to the postmaster at the office at which they were originally mailed all letters or other matter so addressed...

Sedition Act of 1918

Well, here I am correcting you again.............


Brandenburg v. Ohio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do some research

However, t here is nothing prevented those who send money to known terrorist groups from being prosecuted for treason.

Correcting me? I simply pasted part of the Sedition Act of 1918. What was incorrect with that?


From the link you provided:

Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a United States Supreme Court case based on the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action.
 
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Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.

You think it is fine that the government can effectively prohibit someone from giving legal advice to another person simply because that second person is a terrorist? This actually makes it impossible for groups that specialize in talking to organizations and teaching them that they have the option to pursue their greivances in court, instead of doing something crazy like killing people, from telling them how to do this. Yet you think it is a good idea and a solid ruling.
 
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Reactions: blu
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.

You think it is fine that the government can effectively prohibit someone from giving legal advice to another person simply because that second person is a terrorist? This actually makes it impossible for groups that specialize in talking to organizations and teaching them that they have the option to pursue their greivances in court, instead of doing something crazy like killing people, from telling them how to do this. Yet you think it is a good idea and a solid ruling.

rulings like this show you how much some people love and trust their government
 
Are you seriously trying to trump me with the Sedition Act? Get real.

I'm seriously trying to tell you that free speech has its limitations.

The Sedition Act is not the way to prove your point. I love it myself because it has a very rare status as being a law that was repealed before SCOTUS ever ruled on it, yet still cited by SCOTUS as an example of a law that is unconstitutional. It may be unique in that respect, but I am not enough of a law geek to know that for sure.

Please, keep trying to prove your point by using the Sedition Act, it is amusing.
 
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.

You think it is fine that the government can effectively prohibit someone from giving legal advice to another person simply because that second person is a terrorist? This actually makes it impossible for groups that specialize in talking to organizations and teaching them that they have the option to pursue their greivances in court, instead of doing something crazy like killing people, from telling them how to do this. Yet you think it is a good idea and a solid ruling.

Foreign groups like the PKK or LTTE have no constitutional right to our court system.
 
Oh you're fucking kidding me! Blu's whining about no longer being able to commit treason????

Fucking figures.

I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.

You think it is fine that the government can effectively prohibit someone from giving legal advice to another person simply because that second person is a terrorist? This actually makes it impossible for groups that specialize in talking to organizations and teaching them that they have the option to pursue their greivances in court, instead of doing something crazy like killing people, from telling them how to do this. Yet you think it is a good idea and a solid ruling.

No I don't believe that the government should take legal rights away from even terrorists. But you do understand that those rights are only applicable to US citizens, and even then US citizens who are in a war zone are no longer afforded CON protections. This ruling didn't change that at all.
 
I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.

You think it is fine that the government can effectively prohibit someone from giving legal advice to another person simply because that second person is a terrorist? This actually makes it impossible for groups that specialize in talking to organizations and teaching them that they have the option to pursue their greivances in court, instead of doing something crazy like killing people, from telling them how to do this. Yet you think it is a good idea and a solid ruling.

No I don't believe that the government should take legal rights away from even terrorists. But you do understand that those rights are only applicable to US citizens, and even then US citizens who are in a war zone are no longer afforded CON protections. This ruling didn't change that at all.

what should happen to american red cross workers who treat soldiers from hezbollah, taliban, etc ?

Red Cross defends helping Taliban treat casualties - CNN.com
FOXNews.com - Red Cross Gives First Aid Training to Afghanistan's Taliban, Report Says
 
I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.

You think it is fine that the government can effectively prohibit someone from giving legal advice to another person simply because that second person is a terrorist? This actually makes it impossible for groups that specialize in talking to organizations and teaching them that they have the option to pursue their greivances in court, instead of doing something crazy like killing people, from telling them how to do this. Yet you think it is a good idea and a solid ruling.

Foreign groups like the PKK or LTTE have no constitutional right to our court system.

How do you jump to that conclusion?
 
I seriously doubt blu has any idea what blu is whining about. He should put a fucking ruck on his back and head to the desert and then whine that he has a right to fund terrorists.

The Sedition Act is the wrong thing to use to defend this ruling, but it is a solid ruling.

You think it is fine that the government can effectively prohibit someone from giving legal advice to another person simply because that second person is a terrorist? This actually makes it impossible for groups that specialize in talking to organizations and teaching them that they have the option to pursue their greivances in court, instead of doing something crazy like killing people, from telling them how to do this. Yet you think it is a good idea and a solid ruling.

No I don't believe that the government should take legal rights away from even terrorists. But you do understand that those rights are only applicable to US citizens, and even then US citizens who are in a war zone are no longer afforded CON protections. This ruling didn't change that at all.

Yes it did. It has said that US citizens who are living and working in the US cannot talk to these groups and educate them in alternatives to violence, because by doing so they will somehow free up other resources to be used for violence.
 

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