more than just conspiracy

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by DKSuddeth, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. DKSuddeth
    Offline

    DKSuddeth Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    5,175
    Thanks Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Texas
    Ratings:
    +62
    A long time ago I said that the power problems in california were not Gray Davis' fault, that it was a deliberate act against the state for political and financial purposes and now it appears that I've been vindicated. cbs news

    Four years after California's disastrous experiment with energy deregulation, Enron energy traders can be heard – on audiotapes obtained by CBS News – gloating and praising each other as they helped bring on, and cash-in on, the Western power crisis.

    "He just f---s California," says one Enron employee. "He steals money from California to the tune of about a million."

    "Will you rephrase that?" asks a second employee.

    "OK, he, um, he arbitrages the California market to the tune of a million bucks or two a day," replies the first.

    The tapes, from Enron's West Coast trading desk, also confirm what CBS reported years ago: that in secret deals with power producers, traders deliberately drove up prices by ordering power plants shut down.

    "If you took down the steamer, how long would it take to get it back up?" an Enron worker is heard saying.

    "Oh, it's not something you want to just be turning on and off every hour. Let's put it that way," another says.

    "Well, why don't you just go ahead and shut her down."

    Officials with the Snohomish Public Utility District near Seattle received the tapes from the Justice Department.

    And the tapes appear to link top Enron officials Ken Lay and Jeffrey Skilling to schemes that fueled the crisis.

    "Government Affairs has to prove how valuable it is to Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling," says one trader.

    "Ok."

    "Do you know when you started over-scheduling load and making buckets of money on that?

    Before the 2000 election, Enron employees pondered the possibilities of a Bush win.

    "It'd be great. I'd love to see Ken Lay Secretary of Energy," says one Enron worker.

    That didn't happen, but they were sure President Bush would fight any limits on sky-high energy prices.

    "When this election comes Bush will f------g whack this s--t, man. He won't play this price-cap b------t."

    Crude, but true.

    "We will not take any action that makes California's problems worse and that's why I oppose price caps," said Mr. Bush on May 29, 2001.

    Both the Justice Department and Enron tried to prevent the release of these tapes. Enron's lawyers argued they merely prove "that people at Enron sometimes talked like Barnacle Bill the Sailor."
     
  2. DKSuddeth
    Offline

    DKSuddeth Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    5,175
    Thanks Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Texas
    Ratings:
    +62
    nobody has anything to chime in on this?
     
  3. HGROKIT
    Offline

    HGROKIT Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,398
    Thanks Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Federal Way WA, USA
    Ratings:
    +19
    I do as I used to live in CA during this crap. I never thought it was Davis' fault per se; but the deregulation.

    What I find more disturbing is the comment about Justice not wanting to release the tapes citing the "Barnacle Bill the Sailor" bit.

    I know this is rhetorical and probably gonna get me some tinfoil but - JUST WHAT THE HELL IS THE FUNCTION OF JUSTICE SUPPOSED TO BE!

    Whew - I feel better.

    When I read stuff like this, I just don't know what to say.
     
  4. DKSuddeth
    Offline

    DKSuddeth Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    5,175
    Thanks Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Texas
    Ratings:
    +62
    It makes one wonder, how close would Ken Lay have come to being the energy secretary had enron not failed?
     
  5. NewGuy
    Online

    NewGuy Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    If you look up when CalISO was created, and why, and how it works, you will see Davis on the other side of the extortion table.

    They were both equally bad doing the same thing and DAVIS had the master power switch.
     
  6. 5stringJeff
    Offline

    5stringJeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    9,990
    Thanks Received:
    536
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings:
    +540
    Certainly Davis' policies were not helping the crisis. But with this new evidence, Enron certainly looks to share a good part of the blame as well. I'm not ready to absolve Davis yet, but the more I read about Enron's practices, the more I think they were pretty crooked.

    So how does California ensure that they don't face this situation again? My solution is for California to build more power plants. But the environmental lobby out there is absolutely opposed to building anything except maybe wind and/or hydro power plants, and thus are also partially to blame for these events.
     
  7. DKSuddeth
    Offline

    DKSuddeth Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Messages:
    5,175
    Thanks Received:
    61
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Texas
    Ratings:
    +62
    would wind be a bad idea? it may be expensive but look at the long term gains.
     
  8. HGROKIT
    Offline

    HGROKIT Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,398
    Thanks Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Federal Way WA, USA
    Ratings:
    +19
    When I lived in Palm Springs, I was a windmill mechanic. The aoumnot of power they generated then was unbelieveable; the towers they have now are twice as big and produce twice as much electricity.

    At the time, all the power produced was sent up to L.A. and then sold while we in the Coachella Valley continued to pay higher rates (as opposed to the metro areas) in an area where you absolutely had to have A/C from about April through October.

    IMNSHO( :) ), unless appropriate regulatory measures are in place, any energy source will be subject to corruption. Jaded ? Cynical ? Yep!
     
  9. 5stringJeff
    Offline

    5stringJeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    9,990
    Thanks Received:
    536
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings:
    +540
    I'd love it if wind power were used all over the place. Unfortunately, it's not as cost-effective as other forms of power, nor is it reliable.

    BTW, Hgrokit, where in WA are you?
     
  10. HGROKIT
    Offline

    HGROKIT Active Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,398
    Thanks Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Federal Way WA, USA
    Ratings:
    +19
    Federal Way/Auburn

    And your statement about the costs of windmills is right on. The start up to payoff at the time was about six years. You also had the maintenance contract issues. However even at that, the investors who were typically wealthy anyway got great benefits/deductions for the alternative energy production. There was and act, but can't remember what it was.
     

Share This Page