More terrifying than Real ID...

[BrokenAngel]

I was trolling some news sites and ran across a rather disturbing article through Drudgereport.com. Since I am still a little to green on this forum I can't link so I will instead post the article. What I am wondering is if anyone can offer any insight on the topic because the intensity of the paranoia in this country is driving the feds to feel they are free to try and impliment some horrifying ideas. If there isn't really any insight that can be offered then I would truly love to know what the opinions are out there on this topic.

By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

Washington state's enhanced driver's license

Privacy advocates are issuing warnings about a new radio chip plan that ultimately could provide electronic identification for every adult in the U.S. and allow agents to compile attendance lists at anti-government rallies simply by walking through the assembly.

The proposal, which has earned the support of Janet Napolitano, the newly chosen chief of the Department of Homeland Security, would embed radio chips in driver's licenses, or "enhanced driver's licenses."

"Enhanced driver's licenses give confidence that the person holding the card is the person who is supposed to be holding the card, and it's less elaborate than REAL ID," Napolitano said in a Washington Times report.

REAL ID is a plan for a federal identification system standardized across the nation that so alarmed governors many states have adopted formal plans to oppose it. However, a privacy advocate today told WND that the EDLs are many times worse.

Radio talk show host and identity chip expert Katherine Albrecht said REAL ID earned the opposition of Christians because of its resemblance to the biblical "mark of the beast," civil libertarians opposed it for its "big brother" connotations and others worried about identity theft issues with the proposed databases.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90008

shortened and linked to comply with copyright rules. these are not optional and the point of not allowing you to link until you have 16 posts is that you aren't allowed to post articles without going through us until you have 16 posts. in the future, contact one of us if there's something you feel you want to share. Thanks. Jillian

 

[strollingbones]

we, as consumers, already leave a wide open paper trail.. even you medical records are available to others..read the form you sign very carefully and you will discover you are giving clinics permission to share your information. our buying habits are traced with the use of discount buying cards. all this info is available to the police with a few keystrokes..the chip will simply make it more readily available...i agree with you.. it is not a good thing

 

[xsited1]

I wouldn't worry myself because Obama is now President and he is GREAT. (That's a Sealybobo quote, BTW.)

Is Barack Obama the Messiah?

 

[elvis]

I wouldn't worry myself because Obama is now President and he is GREAT. (That's a Sealybobo quote, BTW.)

Is Barack Obama the Messiah?

Oh no, a silly bimbo quote.

 

[editec]

Broken Angel asks:

I was trolling some news sites and ran across a rather disturbing article through Drudgereport.com. Since I am still a little to green on this forum I can't link so I will instead post the article. What I am wondering is if anyone can offer any insight on the topic because the intensity of the paranoia in this country is driving the feds to feel they are free to try and impliment some horrifying ideas. If there isn't really any insight that can be offered then I would truly love to know what the opinions are out there on this topic.

Just like most other governments, the thing the US GOVERNMENT fears most is the GOVERNED

 

[KittenKoder]

Here's what I don't get ... every time they try to use a "new technology" (which has actually been around for some time now) they get attacked ... when it doesn't do much more than our old technology did, it just makes it harder to forge. Our ID's already have bar codes, and many businesses are starting to use those for accounts, it's faster than entering all the info in the computer and less likely to be fake. Because of this new bar-code many businesses can even take expired ID's since they can now be "canceled" if stolen or flagged. My local DVD store uses the bar code now ... it's convenient ... once the chips are in use I'll get one of those to. As for paper trails ... really ... do you have a bank account? Make purchases online at all? Phone orders? Checks? All of that is already tracked. Then there's medical records and all that which people are resisting having those all connected to. Really, we have no less privacy, nor will have any less, because of these advancements. But the advancements can save a lot of hardship for most people. Sadly I live in Washington and these same people have resisted EVERYTHING new, this is just one of the many real advances they have fought against.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Personally, I get all my discount cards in false names. I don't write checks at stores so I only use them to get the sale prices.

My current Alias at local supermarkets is

Jacques Itchski
Irritation Lane
Powder, CT

And the radio chip in your license can be taken care of by "accidentally" putting your wallet in the microwave.

I am loathe to give my personal info to anyone.

 

[jillian]

A little late to worry about it. Washington State started giving out enhanced drivers license in january, 2008. if you look at the link to washington state's site. the chip doesn't transmit personal information.


http://www.dol.wa.gov/about/news/priorities/borderCrossingFaq.pdf


and people already know where you are every time you get in your car, if you have a GPS...and they know everything about you if you use a debit or credit card or cell phone...should they choose to.

 

[KittenKoder]

A little late to worry about it. Washington State started giving out enhanced drivers license in january, 2008. if you look at the link to washington state's site. the chip doesn't transmit personal information.


http://www.dol.wa.gov/about/news/priorities/borderCrossingFaq.pdf


and people already know where you are every time you get in your car, if you have a GPS...and they know everything about you if you use a debit or credit card or cell phone...should they choose to.

Cells phones are a biggy now. The funny thing is that I know a lot of people who leave their ID's at home a lot anyway, cuts back on the chances of having it lost or stolen. Not to mention in our state we have a ton of traffic cams, so even if they can't find you through all the others it's still possible to track you through those (just not as easily). The problem with those against these don't notice is that we aren't losing rights or privacy with them, we are however gaining a lot of extra personal security, it won't be as easy for people to use your identity to commit crimes and then wind up with you taking the blame. It's like the DNA databases, the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A little late to worry about it. Washington State started giving out enhanced drivers license in january, 2008. if you look at the link to washington state's site. the chip doesn't transmit personal information.

And you believe that? I don't, and as soon as my state starts that, my license will find its way into my microwave.

 

[jillian]

A little late to worry about it. Washington State started giving out enhanced drivers license in january, 2008. if you look at the link to washington state's site. the chip doesn't transmit personal information.

And you believe that? I don't, and as soon as my state starts that, my license will find its way into my microwave.

and then it probably won't be useful to you in a traffic stop.

are you one of those people who doesn't use EZPass either?

 

[LiveUninhibited]

I've heard you can be tracked with your cell phone whenever it's on and has a signal via triangulation of cell phone towers. When you make calls the record of your general location is logged.

I am guessing someday carrying ID would not be necessary and they could just scan your retina or fingerprints for account, medical, and other identification information.

All of this is good in that it makes it more difficult to be a successful criminal, but potentially bad if the government is ever as corrupt as many fear. It's not likely we'll be able to permanently block such technology.

 

[jillian]

Cells phones are a biggy now. The funny thing is that I know a lot of people who leave their ID's at home a lot anyway, cuts back on the chances of having it lost or stolen. Not to mention in our state we have a ton of traffic cams, so even if they can't find you through all the others it's still possible to track you through those (just not as easily). The problem with those against these don't notice is that we aren't losing rights or privacy with them, we are however gaining a lot of extra personal security, it won't be as easy for people to use your identity to commit crimes and then wind up with you taking the blame. It's like the DNA databases, the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

I agree in part and disagree in part. I do think we are losing privacy rights. But I also think the benefits in these particular cases, outweigh the burdens. But to be fair, I also need more information than the bits and pieces I just read.

 

[KittenKoder]

A little late to worry about it. Washington State started giving out enhanced drivers license in january, 2008. if you look at the link to washington state's site. the chip doesn't transmit personal information.

And you believe that? I don't, and as soon as my state starts that, my license will find its way into my microwave.

*eye roll*

 

[KittenKoder]

Cells phones are a biggy now. The funny thing is that I know a lot of people who leave their ID's at home a lot anyway, cuts back on the chances of having it lost or stolen. Not to mention in our state we have a ton of traffic cams, so even if they can't find you through all the others it's still possible to track you through those (just not as easily). The problem with those against these don't notice is that we aren't losing rights or privacy with them, we are however gaining a lot of extra personal security, it won't be as easy for people to use your identity to commit crimes and then wind up with you taking the blame. It's like the DNA databases, the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

I agree in part and disagree in part. I do think we are losing privacy rights. But I also think the benefits in these particular cases, outweigh the burdens. But to be fair, I also need more information than the bits and pieces I just read.

True, the information on what they are doing is often incomplete.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A little late to worry about it. Washington State started giving out enhanced drivers license in january, 2008. if you look at the link to washington state's site. the chip doesn't transmit personal information.

And you believe that? I don't, and as soon as my state starts that, my license will find its way into my microwave.

and then it probably won't be useful to you in a traffic stop.

are you one of those people who doesn't use EZPass either?

As long as the picture and address are legible, the license should be usable. It shouldn't take more than a few seconds to fry the radio chip.

I don't use EZ pass because I have a 10 second commute to work. But even if I did drive, I wouldn't use one.

I even have a separate bank account for on line purchases at a different bank than my other accounts. I keep $25 in it and every time I make a purchase online I transfer the exact amount into it.

When everyone is out to get you, paranoia is just good thinking.

 

[editec]

I try to be paranoid, but it's so hard to keep up.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Part of the reasons this idea is so scary is that, even with a passive RFID chip, you can track the exact location of the person carrying it. You can see, for instance, how fast they are driving, who is driving versus who is sitting in the car with you, who is driving without a license. Your local hang outs will now be trackable, without really solving the "terror" issue. I mean weren't some of the terrorists from 9/11 US citizens?

The bigger issue that is being missed is that RFID chips are used for shipping and tracking inventory for a reason. You can find them without a lot of trouble. I don't do anything that would be an issue personally, but it scares me because it seems like a keystone to a much larger plan..

Starting to sound as paranoid as my father.. but this topic is a little unsettling.

 

[KittenKoder]

Broken ... which you seem to be here. Even with the tracking technology, even if they could actually gleam that much info from simply knowing where the ID is, even if they could tell if you actually were carrying it or if you left it at home, there is no way they would notice 99.99% of the population (and that's being generous). 8 billion in the world total, and believe me they have more important people to track already. Then, to filter through all the information ... the chances of them even noticing one person is almost zero. That's also assuming they care ... which why would they care about most people anyway, low level laborers with no more power than a ant in a colony. However, that technology doesn't really exist, not on the level you are thinking. While it is possible, it's just not done, and there isn't anything stopping someone from doing it now, it's just no one wants to do that. It's hard enough for the media to track what areas sell specific sundries more so they can make sure they advertise well enough to make a profit.

 

[BrokenAngel]

Even with the tracking technology, even if they could actually gleam that much info from simply knowing where the ID is, even if they could tell if you actually were carrying it or if you left it at home, there is no way they would notice 99.99% of the population (and that's being generous).

I guess my point is somewhat lost here. It isn't that I am afraid they will zero in on me.. as I said I am not worried because I don't do anything wrong or of interest. The potential this has for causing harm to people is pretty impressive though. It is a system that will not really help stop terrorism because with every new mousetrap you breed a more intelligent mouse. It also won't help keep people any more safe than they already are. And there is little chance it will help the country run more smoothly.. look at systems such as Medicaid. It takes forever to get anything done already due to poorly designed network and computer system and a lack of employees.

It seems an unnecessary expense and project that will merely allow the American population to be a little less free in general.. feels like we are lining up to give away a lot of our freedoms lately. It worries me for my son, my neighbors, and for the country that I thought I knew..