More Teens smoking Pot than Cigs

[California Girl]

Pot is a trigger for mental illness. Fact.

Personally, I have no problem with people smoking whatever they want to smoke. As long as it doesn't impact on me. If, however, I have to pay more in health insurance coverage to pay for stupid people who suffer from adverse effects of a self inflicted issue, you can fuck that.

You seemed to miss have the point of my post. I'm not saying pot doesn't have it's adverse side effects.

I'm merely saying that pot hasn't caused millions upon millions of deaths like cigarettes has. If it did up to this point, you would see the same amount of outrage like you do with cigarettes and or alcohol. Awareness plays a huge role in this.

The only reason that pot is 'accceptable' is the people who use it. Doesn't change the facts. I'm saying I don't care what you do... just don't expect me to pay for your stupidity.... If you smoke pot, fine. Don't ask me to pay for your welfare, your habit, your medical problems, or anything else. OK?

 

[The Infidel]

Pot is a trigger for mental illness. Fact.

Personally, I have no problem with people smoking whatever they want to smoke. As long as it doesn't impact on me. If, however, I have to pay more in health insurance coverage to pay for stupid people who suffer from adverse effects of a self inflicted issue, you can fuck that.

You seemed to miss have the point of my post. I'm not saying pot doesn't have it's adverse side effects.

I'm merely saying that pot hasn't caused millions upon millions of deaths like cigarettes has. If it did up to this point, you would see the same amount of outrage like you do with cigarettes and or alcohol. Awareness plays a huge role in this.

The only reason that pot is 'accceptable' is the people who use it. Doesn't change the facts. I'm saying I don't care what you do... just don't expect me to pay for your stupidity.... If you smoke pot, fine. Don't ask me to pay for your welfare, your habit, your medical problems, or anything else. OK?

Darn, I was gonna ask ya to wire me $20.00

 

[Modbert]

The only reason that pot is 'accceptable' is the people who use it. Doesn't change the facts. I'm saying I don't care what you do... just don't expect me to pay for your stupidity.... If you smoke pot, fine. Don't ask me to pay for your welfare, your habit, your medical problems, or anything else. OK?

You seem to be missing the point of my post. Seem a bit stressed out there CG, want some pot?

 

[MikeK]

That's not exactly true. The health risks of smoking MJ are not fully assessed because it is illegal.

The fact that marijuana is illegal does not conceal its effects from the medical community. If you'd care to learn more about that, as I've suggested to you before, visit NORML's website and goto the Medical Information pages. One thing you will learn is there is no record anywhere in the annals of medical science of anyone being made sick or dying from smoking or digesting marijuana.

A single joint has about as much crud in it as ten cigarettes (I know most people don't smoke a whole joint).

Has the origin of the specimen from which this finding is derived been identified? Because the CDC put out findings similar to what you've cited, but it was later learned that the specimen the CDC used was obtained from the DEA and was seized in a raid. So the purity of the sample is highly questionable. Most street-grade pot is contaminated with pesticides and growth-inducing hormones. In fact, I read about a DEA raid that found hundreds of marijuana plants growing in a radioactive waste dump.

So unless you have data on the specimen used to derive these reports, be skeptical of the accuracy.

The bottom line is inhaling noxious carcinogens into your lungs is bad for you whether it's tobacco, Marijuana, asbestos, or silicon.

True. Which is one very good reason why marijuana should be legal. Because if it were legal there would be all sorts of edible pot products available, from brownies to cookies and veggie-burgers, which would eliminate smoking as the expedient method of ingestion. As soon as people realize that the effect of digested THC is much nicer and lasts a lot longer than the effect from inhaling it smoking pot would become passe.

Before anyone jumps my case, I think MJ should be legal for recreational use. However, I don't buy into this bullshit about MJ being some magical plant that cures all disease and doesn't harm the lungs when smoked. Because I know it's bullshit.

No one in this forum ever made such an absurd statement to you or to anyone else. The only medical claim I've ever seen made here is the simple truth that marijuana is known to be useful in treating the nausea effect of chemotherapy and that it reduces the painful swelling associated with glaucoma.

And if you'll take the time to do a Google search you'll find there have been some promising results from treating malignant tumors in mice with properties extracted from THC.

None of this is "bullshit."

 

[geauxtohell]

The fact that marijuana is illegal does not conceal its effects from the medical community. If you'd care to learn more about that, as I've suggested to you before, visit NORML's website and goto the Medical Information pages. One thing you will learn is there is no record anywhere in the annals of medical science of anyone being made sick or dying from smoking or digesting marijuana.

Actually, it does. It makes it hard to study, and even harder to conduct clinical research on as, in the vast majority of states, it's not something that Doctors can prescribe for. I've looked at the NORML links. There is nothing terribly conclusive in the studies. Of course, NORML has their own agenda so I am not counting on them to report the bad and ugly along with the good.

I am aware that no one has died of acute intoxication from THC. That doesn't make MJ an benevolent substance. No one has overdosed from smoking cigarettes either.

Has the origin of the specimen from which this finding is derived been identified? Because the CDC put out findings similar to what you've cited, but it was later learned that the specimen the CDC used was obtained from the DEA and was seized in a raid. So the purity of the sample is highly questionable. Most street-grade pot is contaminated with pesticides and growth-inducing hormones. In fact, I read about a DEA raid that found hundreds of marijuana plants growing in a radioactive waste dump.

Like I said. Not "well controlled or studied".

So unless you have data on the specimen used to derive these reports, be skeptical of the accuracy.

I can be skeptical, but I can't operate off the assumption that facts that don't support my position "must be flawed".

True. Which is one very good reason why marijuana should be legal. Because if it were legal there would be all sorts of edible pot products available, from brownies to cookies and veggie-burgers, which would eliminate smoking as the expedient method of ingestion. As soon as people realize that the effect of digested THC is much nicer and lasts a lot longer than the effect from inhaling it smoking pot would become passe.

That's pure speculation and the failure of marinol to gain any sort of popularity among the people that use it tends to disagree with you.

No one in this forum ever made such an absurd statement to you or to anyone else. The only medical claim I've ever seen made here is the simple truth that marijuana is known to be useful in treating the nausea effect of chemotherapy and that it reduces the painful swelling associated with glaucoma.

And HIV patients that have difficulty tolerating HAART therapy.

So why is it being used for anxiety, fibromyalgia, and a plethora of other medical indications in California?

And if you'll take the time to do a Google search you'll find there have been some promising results from treating malignant tumors in mice with properties extracted from THC.

None of this is "bullshit."

I am aware of this. Again, I have no problem with any sort of evidenced based medicine finding uses for THC. If that's the case, I am sure there will be a more efficient way to synthesize the compound and deliver it to the cancerous tissue than smoking a joint.

And again, the vast majority of "medical marijuana" users in California don't have cancer, glaucoma, or HIV.

Let's just be honest and admit that a significant portion of people in the state of California have MJ scripts to use it recreationally or for pathologies that could be better addressed through other means (i.e. SSRIs, therapy, etc).

 

[editec]

More Teens smoking Pot than Cigs

Good!

That means that all that advertising and education is having a positive effect on kids not becoming smokers.

Tobacco smoking is a vile addiction.

 

[Blagger]

Weird how smoking pot is viewed as perfectly ok and smoking cigs is tantamount to murder.

That's not exactly true. The health risks of smoking MJ are not fully assessed because it is illegal. A single joint has about as much crud in it as ten cigarettes (I know most people don't smoke a whole joint). The bottom line is inhaling noxious carcinogens into your lungs is bad for you whether it's tobacco, Marijuana, asbestos, or silicon.

I saw a patient in our out patient clinic the other day who was starting to look, clinically, like she was developing chronic bronchitis (and on her way to COPD). She also smoked a PPD but had cut down to 1/2 a pack. She was perfectly honest about smoking MJ, and frankly I don't really care about that, other than to point out that she was smoking a joint a day, so she was still basically smoking a pack per day and her lungs weren't going to get any less wheezy while she was doing that.

Before anyone jumps my case, I think MJ should be legal for recreational use. However, I don't buy into this bullshit about MJ being some magical plant that cures all disease and doesn't harm the lungs when smoked. Because I know it's bullshit.

Like others have said already, agreed. I grow my own small crop because I can do without the hassle of buying it from arseholes who never turn-up on time and because I know it's clean. I grow one plant every three or four months.

Anyway...

Even though I smoke marijuana, I'm not blind to medical advice. I'm confident that marijuana can lead to mental health breakdowns, and although it's not physically addictive, people come to depend on it and it erodes any sense of ambition. It's not a magic herb that will cure all of societies ills and bring mankind together, it's now a potent drug that's grown for a profit, not enlightenment.

One last thing. Why on earth did people consider world famous stoner Bob Marley to be a wise man? He wrote about black oppresion and made some good decisions. But he wasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, a 'wise man'. And his music (in my opinion) wasn't that great, either. He just got high all the time and made very little sense aswell. Why he was revered as some kind of God is beyond me.

 

[geauxtohell]

Weird how smoking pot is viewed as perfectly ok and smoking cigs is tantamount to murder.

That's not exactly true. The health risks of smoking MJ are not fully assessed because it is illegal. A single joint has about as much crud in it as ten cigarettes (I know most people don't smoke a whole joint). The bottom line is inhaling noxious carcinogens into your lungs is bad for you whether it's tobacco, Marijuana, asbestos, or silicon.

I saw a patient in our out patient clinic the other day who was starting to look, clinically, like she was developing chronic bronchitis (and on her way to COPD). She also smoked a PPD but had cut down to 1/2 a pack. She was perfectly honest about smoking MJ, and frankly I don't really care about that, other than to point out that she was smoking a joint a day, so she was still basically smoking a pack per day and her lungs weren't going to get any less wheezy while she was doing that.

Before anyone jumps my case, I think MJ should be legal for recreational use. However, I don't buy into this bullshit about MJ being some magical plant that cures all disease and doesn't harm the lungs when smoked. Because I know it's bullshit.

Like others have said already, agreed. I grow my own small crop because I can do without the hassle of buying it from arseholes who never turn-up on time and because I know it's clean. I grow one plant every three or four months.

Anyway...

Even though I smoke marijuana, I'm not blind to medical advice. I'm confident that marijuana can lead to mental health breakdowns, and although it's not physically addictive, people come to depend on it and it erodes any sense of ambition. It's not a magic herb that will cure all of societies ills and bring mankind together, it's now a potent drug that's grown for a profit, not enlightenment.

One last thing. Why on earth did people consider world famous stoner Bob Marley to be a wise man? He wrote about black oppresion and made some good decisions. But he wasn't, by any stretch of the imagination, a 'wise man'. And his music (in my opinion) wasn't that great, either. He just got high all the time and made very little sense aswell. Why he was revered as some kind of God is beyond me.

I am on a psychiatry rotation now, so it's kind of interesting to consider the notion that anytime you alter the brain's consciousness (whether inadvertently through mental illness or intentionally through ingestion of alcohol, MJ, PCP, etc) it is a double edged sword.

It's likely that mental illness, i.e. things like bipolar disorder, have greatly contributed to a lot of the art and culture (and probably more - as a psychiatrist pointed out: Martin Luther translated the entire bible into German in five days) of our history. It also has contributed to the personal suffering of the individuals involved.

It's the same with any substance. You take the good with the bad. The evidence doesn't, to my knowledge, support the notion that MJ smoke causes lung cancer. However, it does support the notion that it causes COPD, which is horrible unto itself.

http://copd.about.com/b/2008/12/08/does-regular-marijuana-smoking-lead-to-copd.htm

Oh, I am one of those people who think Bob Marley is brilliant, so I can't corroborate your point of view.

 

[JBeukema]

Not surprising.

Marijuana is better than tobacco.

 

[JBeukema]

Weird how smoking pot is viewed as perfectly ok and smoking cigs is tantamount to murder.

Probably because pot and pot smoke doesn't kill millions of people a year.

Nor does tobacco.

Unless you count cancer, but then your first statement is bullshit.

 

[JBeukema]

Weird how smoking pot is viewed as perfectly ok and smoking cigs is tantamount to murder.

That's not exactly true. The health risks of smoking MJ are not fully assessed because it is illegal. A single joint has about as much crud in it as ten cigarettes (I know most people don't smoke a whole joint). The bottom line is inhaling noxious carcinogens into your lungs is bad for you whether it's tobacco, Marijuana, asbestos, or silicon.

I saw a patient in our out patient clinic the other day who was starting to look, clinically, like she was developing chronic bronchitis (and on her way to COPD). She also smoked a PPD but had cut down to 1/2 a pack. She was perfectly honest about smoking MJ, and frankly I don't really care about that, other than to point out that she was smoking a joint a day, so she was still basically smoking a pack per day and her lungs weren't going to get any less wheezy while she was doing that.

Before anyone jumps my case, I think MJ should be legal for recreational use. However, I don't buy into this bullshit about MJ being some magical plant that cures all disease and doesn't harm the lungs when smoked. Because I know it's bullshit.

Actually, weed contains less carcinogens, but the method of smoking causes more tar to set in the lungs.

 

[JBeukema]

Weird how smoking pot is viewed as perfectly ok and smoking cigs is tantamount to murder.

That's not exactly true. The health risks of smoking MJ are not fully assessed because it is illegal. A single joint has about as much crud in it as ten cigarettes (I know most people don't smoke a whole joint). The bottom line is inhaling noxious carcinogens into your lungs is bad for you whether it's tobacco, Marijuana, asbestos, or silicon.

I saw a patient in our out patient clinic the other day who was starting to look, clinically, like she was developing chronic bronchitis (and on her way to COPD). She also smoked a PPD but had cut down to 1/2 a pack. She was perfectly honest about smoking MJ, and frankly I don't really care about that, other than to point out that she was smoking a joint a day, so she was still basically smoking a pack per day and her lungs weren't going to get any less wheezy while she was doing that.

Before anyone jumps my case, I think MJ should be legal for recreational use. However, I don't buy into this bullshit about MJ being some magical plant that cures all disease and doesn't harm the lungs when smoked. Because I know it's bullshit.

That's true.... if you ignore all research from other countries. I guess Americans are a different species to the rest of the world. MJ has - across the world - been linked to mental illness. It makes me laugh when Americans insist that only research in the US is valid.

Wow, people who are inclined towards mental illness are inclined to use substances that make them feel better.


Shocking.

 

[JBeukema]

Weird how smoking pot is viewed as perfectly ok and smoking cigs is tantamount to murder.

Probably because pot and pot smoke doesn't kill millions of people a year.

Pot is a trigger for mental illness. Fact.

Personally, I have no problem with people smoking whatever they want to smoke. As long as it doesn't impact on me. If, however, I have to pay more in health insurance coverage to pay for stupid people who suffer from adverse effects of a self inflicted issue, you can fuck that.

What about fat people?

And people who don't run a mile per day?

And people who exercise too much?

 

[geauxtohell]

Weird how smoking pot is viewed as perfectly ok and smoking cigs is tantamount to murder.

That's not exactly true. The health risks of smoking MJ are not fully assessed because it is illegal. A single joint has about as much crud in it as ten cigarettes (I know most people don't smoke a whole joint). The bottom line is inhaling noxious carcinogens into your lungs is bad for you whether it's tobacco, Marijuana, asbestos, or silicon.

I saw a patient in our out patient clinic the other day who was starting to look, clinically, like she was developing chronic bronchitis (and on her way to COPD). She also smoked a PPD but had cut down to 1/2 a pack. She was perfectly honest about smoking MJ, and frankly I don't really care about that, other than to point out that she was smoking a joint a day, so she was still basically smoking a pack per day and her lungs weren't going to get any less wheezy while she was doing that.

Before anyone jumps my case, I think MJ should be legal for recreational use. However, I don't buy into this bullshit about MJ being some magical plant that cures all disease and doesn't harm the lungs when smoked. Because I know it's bullshit.

Actually, weed contains less carcinogens, but the method of smoking causes more tar to set in the lungs.

I'd certainly believe that. That also seems to be what the peer reviewed literature suggests too.

 

[JBeukema]

Pot is a trigger for mental illness. Fact.

Personally, I have no problem with people smoking whatever they want to smoke. As long as it doesn't impact on me. If, however, I have to pay more in health insurance coverage to pay for stupid people who suffer from adverse effects of a self inflicted issue, you can fuck that.

You seemed to miss have the point of my post. I'm not saying pot doesn't have it's adverse side effects.

I'm merely saying that pot hasn't caused millions upon millions of deaths like cigarettes has. If it did up to this point, you would see the same amount of outrage like you do with cigarettes and or alcohol. Awareness plays a huge role in this.

The only reason that pot is 'accceptable' is the people who use it. Doesn't change the facts. I'm saying I don't care what you do... just don't expect me to pay for your stupidity.... If you smoke pot, fine. Don't ask me to pay for your welfare, your habit, your medical problems, or anything else. OK?

Same if you eat donuts, right?

Or if you live in the city and breath all that car exhaust.

 

[geauxtohell]

That's not exactly true. The health risks of smoking MJ are not fully assessed because it is illegal. A single joint has about as much crud in it as ten cigarettes (I know most people don't smoke a whole joint). The bottom line is inhaling noxious carcinogens into your lungs is bad for you whether it's tobacco, Marijuana, asbestos, or silicon.

I saw a patient in our out patient clinic the other day who was starting to look, clinically, like she was developing chronic bronchitis (and on her way to COPD). She also smoked a PPD but had cut down to 1/2 a pack. She was perfectly honest about smoking MJ, and frankly I don't really care about that, other than to point out that she was smoking a joint a day, so she was still basically smoking a pack per day and her lungs weren't going to get any less wheezy while she was doing that.

Before anyone jumps my case, I think MJ should be legal for recreational use. However, I don't buy into this bullshit about MJ being some magical plant that cures all disease and doesn't harm the lungs when smoked. Because I know it's bullshit.

That's true.... if you ignore all research from other countries. I guess Americans are a different species to the rest of the world. MJ has - across the world - been linked to mental illness. It makes me laugh when Americans insist that only research in the US is valid.

Wow, people who are inclined towards mental illness are inclined to use substances that make them feel better.


Shocking.

That's why I am a little bit dubious about that study. I think it would be hard to separate the confounding effect.

Psychosis is so hard to quantify anyways, there is no telling which came first and if the person was self medicating a psychotic condition or became psychotic due to MJ.

Nicotine is, for some reason, believed to be therapeutic for schizophrenics and (if I remember right) that is why 75% of schizophrenics smoke.

If a person wanted too, they could look at that set of people and conclude: "Schizophrenia causes lung cancer."