More school: Obama would curtail summer vacation

[Mad Scientist]

25% more school year means 25% more money for the NEA. This is a trial balloon.

 

[Polk]

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

He's right.

Is he? Did you read the article?
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Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.

"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."

While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days)."

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Perhaps our lowered scores have less to do with instruction hours and more to do with home and societal influences. The total U.S. scores are going to be a compilation of scores from across the country. I think we should look and see where our weak link is coming in and target that area rather than trying to assign the problem to the whole nation. Are the lower grades coming in from rural areas?..inner city areas?.. Basically target a solution to the problem.

That's a factor, obviously (rural and urban students on average score far below their suburban counterparts). Another issue could simply be the schedule. Even though they spend less hours in the classroom, the fact that they are spread out more results in students retaining knowledge better.

 

[Polk]

And, here we have our second lib/Dem who has said the GOP is anti-education. Too fucking funny.

It's not the Democrats you hear ranting about "Ivy League elitists" and "the liberal education establishment".

 

[Polk]

http://sde.state.ok.us/Curriculum/PASS/Grade/socstud.pdf

Yet only 25% of students can identity Washington as first president? The fault dear Brutus lies in how teachers are teaching

So, how do you manage to blame the teachers if they DID teach that Washington was our first President. I'd like to hear how you spin that one.

How could they possibly have "taught" it if only 25% of the students get it right?

It's a physical impossibility!

You realize you're quoting a survey that's already been shown to be junk, right?

 

[Polk]

My district teaches how to tell time in Kindergarten. And in 1st grade. And in 2nd grade... Half my seniors can't do it. Who's to blame?

Back in the day, if students didn't know their multiplication tables, they weren't promoted to the next grade. Now with the self esteem movement, no "child is left behind". Literally. Kids are passed through without even knowing the basics. It's sad. And scary. OK is not unique.

And, passing the unqualified through - as you are one who teaches and is familiar with this - do you think that is more a result of federal interference/regulations or parental pressures on local administration?

I know in my hometown, it was the result of parental pressure. Parents were always at the school complaining about the grades their kids received. One of our neighbors had a kid who was advanced each year because he'd fail, then she would run to the school and threaten to sue.

 

[Polk]

And, passing the unqualified through - as you are one who teaches and is familiar with this - do you think that is more a result of federal interference/regulations or parental pressures on local administration?

Parents always have the final say on whether a child is held back or not...but I know that the local school district here has a policy that a child can only be held back once...or else you enc up with 15 year old 7th graders.

If they can't get the basics, then there should be 15 yo 7th graders. I'm looking at it from a results stand point. There are too many college freshmen who have no business whatsover even having a high school degree, let alone being in college. They are shocked when they fail, too, and feel rightfully ripped off.

I agree, but that's not really the fault of the education system. It's the fault of parents, involving themselves too heavily in some aspects of the lives of their children, while ignoring others and a social pressure that says "college is for everyone". It isn't.

 

[Si modo]

And, here we have our second lib/Dem who has said the GOP is anti-education. Too fucking funny.

It's not the Democrats you hear ranting about "Ivy League elitists" and "the liberal education establishment".

So what? I've said that the education establishment is liberal, and it is. It's an intellectually lazy strawman saying that is equivalent to being anti-education. You have some fucked up imagination not based in reality, or are simply dishonest - or both.

 

[Polk]

And, here we have our second lib/Dem who has said the GOP is anti-education. Too fucking funny.

It's not the Democrats you hear ranting about "Ivy League elitists" and "the liberal education establishment".

So what? I've said that the education establishment is liberal, and it is. It's an intellectually lazy strawman saying that is equivalent to anti-education. You have some fucked up imagaination, or are simply dishonest - or both.

When you're running around and attacking people with education as being "elitists" and "eggheads", yeah, that's anti-education.

 

[Si modo]

It's not the Democrats you hear ranting about "Ivy League elitists" and "the liberal education establishment".

So what? I've said that the education establishment is liberal, and it is. It's an intellectually lazy strawman saying that is equivalent to anti-education. You have some fucked up imagaination, or are simply dishonest - or both.

When you're running around and attacking people with education as being "elitists" and "eggheads", yeah, that's anti-education.

Only in the mind of those with clear process issues. But hang onto your small views and don't bother paying attention to reality. You have yet to do so several times in this thread alone.

 

[bodecea]

Parents always have the final say on whether a child is held back or not...but I know that the local school district here has a policy that a child can only be held back once...or else you enc up with 15 year old 7th graders.

If they can't get the basics, then there should be 15 yo 7th graders. I'm looking at it from a results stand point. There are too many college freshmen who have no business whatsover even having a high school degree, let alone being in college. They are shocked when they fail, too, and feel rightfully ripped off.

I agree, but that's not really the fault of the education system. It's the fault of parents, involving themselves too heavily in some aspects of the lives of their children, while ignoring others and a social pressure that says "college is for everyone". It isn't.

Agreed that college isn't for everyone and there needs to be more vocational/tech classes for those kids.

 

[bodecea]

And, here we have our second lib/Dem who has said the GOP is anti-education. Too fucking funny.

It's not the Democrats you hear ranting about "Ivy League elitists" and "the liberal education establishment".

So what? I've said that the education establishment is liberal, and it is. It's an intellectually lazy strawman saying that is equivalent to being anti-education. You have some fucked up imagination not based in reality, or are simply dishonest - or both.

Why aren't more conservatives going into education?

 

[random3434]

It's not the Democrats you hear ranting about "Ivy League elitists" and "the liberal education establishment".

So what? I've said that the education establishment is liberal, and it is. It's an intellectually lazy strawman saying that is equivalent to being anti-education. You have some fucked up imagination not based in reality, or are simply dishonest - or both.

Why aren't more conservatives going into education?

That is an interesting question! I would love to hear an answer to that too bodecea!

Wonder if anyone can answer without flaming, because I'd like some honest answers.

 

[Si modo]

So what? I've said that the education establishment is liberal, and it is. It's an intellectually lazy strawman saying that is equivalent to being anti-education. You have some fucked up imagination not based in reality, or are simply dishonest - or both.

Why aren't more conservatives going into education?

That is an interesting question! I would love to hear an answer to that too bodecea!

Wonder if anyone can answer without flaming, because I'd like some honest answers.

I did. Tenure track faculty at a mostly undergrad university for three years. I left for many, many reasons - pay was not one of them. Fundamental ideological differences were the biggest reasons.

And, still to point, assuming that conservatives are anti-education because mostly liberals go into it is as irrational as assuming libs are anti-military because mostly conservative attitudes prevail in the military.

 

[bodecea]

Why aren't more conservatives going into education?

That is an interesting question! I would love to hear an answer to that too bodecea!

Wonder if anyone can answer without flaming, because I'd like some honest answers.

I did. Tenure track faculty at a mostly undergrad university for three years. I left for many, many reasons - pay was not one of them. Fundamental ideological differences were the biggest reasons.
And, still to point, assuming that conservatives are anti-education because mostly liberals go into it is as irrational as assuming libs are anti-military because mostly conservative attitudes prevail in the military.

So you cut and run?

 

[Si modo]

That is an interesting question! I would love to hear an answer to that too bodecea!

Wonder if anyone can answer without flaming, because I'd like some honest answers.

I did. Tenure track faculty at a mostly undergrad university for three years. I left for many, many reasons - pay was not one of them. Fundamental ideological differences were the biggest reasons.
And, still to point, assuming that conservatives are anti-education because mostly liberals go into it is as irrational as assuming libs are anti-military because mostly conservative attitudes prevail in the military.

So you cut and run?

What an idiotic and ignorant conclusion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

si modo quit (like Sarah Palin?) because he could not take criticism? No, I doubt it was his conservative values that ran him off the tenure track. Come on, si modo, tell us the real reason, please.

 

[Si modo]

si modo quit (like Sarah Palin?) because he could not take criticism? ....

As those are your words, it really has little to do with anything I've said.

Fail

No, I doubt it was his conservative values that ran him off the tenure track. ....

As I said nothing about conservative values in relation to that post, your doubts are bizarre.

Fail

.... Come on, si modo, tell us the real reason, please.

Obviously, I decline.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Sure, let the government-run schools have our kids for another 3 hours a day. They can learn cute songs praising our leaders and watch videos which are critical of capitalism.

You can become a teacher and become part of the solution.

Get the feds out of the education business. It is not one of Congress' enumerated powers. People complain about the government donut factories while continuing to send them off to be educated like a good little donut.

 

[Smartt33]

O please. The primary motive behind home schooling has always been religious indoctrination. The ultra-orthodox parents are afraid that if their kids learn something around the real world, they won't have the same beliefs, so they try to shelter them from anything that conflicts with their wacked worldview.

Not trying to shelter your children from what you perceive as a harmful environment is basicallu child abuse.

Homescholle has proven to be some of the best education in the nation. Protecting our children from the immoral language and behavior that students involve themselves in in the public schools is a good thing.

 

[bodecea]

I did. Tenure track faculty at a mostly undergrad university for three years. I left for many, many reasons - pay was not one of them. Fundamental ideological differences were the biggest reasons.
And, still to point, assuming that conservatives are anti-education because mostly liberals go into it is as irrational as assuming libs are anti-military because mostly conservative attitudes prevail in the military.

So you cut and run?

What an idiotic and ignorant conclusion.

Not at all. It is quite a logical conclusion based on what you told us.