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nakedemperor said:Its statistical. On top of being common sense.
Tell this to the tens of millions of Christian liberals.
-=d=- said:As I insinuated - Christians aren't allowed to be offended. If they were using the word '****EDIT BY MOD***' I bet the Admins on the board would be all OVER changing it.
How do you know? Maybe it is John Kerry and similar Christians that have understood what God and Christ was really trying to say, and that it is you and similar-minded Christians that are confused and deluded? Not saying that I believe this to be the case, but rather pointing out that I, at least, see no way of objectively determining this. Hence, any one who would claim to be a Christian has as much right to be so considered as anyone else, for perhaps it is he who has finally understood what God has been trying to tell us...-=d=- said:You'll show names like John Kerry, for instance, because he claims to be a Christian. John Kerry knows little of Christ, or what it means to be a Christian.
rei_t_ex said:How do you know? Maybe it is John Kerry and similar Christians that have understood what God and Christ was really trying to say, and that it is you and similar-minded Christians that are confused and deluded? Not saying that I believe this to be the case, but rather pointing out that I, at least, see no way of objectively determining this. Hence, any one who would claim to be a Christian has as much right to be so considered as anyone else, for perhaps it is he who has finally understood what God has been trying to tell us...
hylandrdet said:I'm keeping this one REALLY SIMPLE. If you had not figured out yet the difference between the religious liberals and the religious conservatives, here's a clue...
Conservatives- Old Testament
Liberals- New Testament
You are not answering my question, merely re-stating your position. I did not ask whether you believe them to be true Christians or not - you already stated that you believe that they are not. Clearly, this entails that you see them following different standards than those you view as Christian. My question is, how do you know that you are right? How do you know that your understanding of what the Christian standards are, is the correct one? Clearly, one must have some way to justify one's standards if one is to use those standards to criticise others.-=d=- said:I know because the actions they take and beliefs they claim violate standards given by Christ.
Simple, really.
Religion doesn't really have all that much to do with 'reality'. Granted, most religions entreat you to not harm others and live a good life, but the moral pay-off lies, not in this world, but in some mythical, metaphysical after-life. If you rigidly adhere to the dogma of your favorite religious text, you'll be rewarded with a glorious after-life...You know, streets paved with gold, a few dozen virgins. You ignore that dogma, you'll suffer eternal and unspeakble agony. Thus, as history has so often shown us, any action can be jusitified so long as it is done in the name of one's favorite deity...up to and including murder and genocide.-=d=- said:LMAO!! haha...wow.. NOt even CLOSE to 'reality' there, bud.
-=d=- said:I know because the actions they take and beliefs they claim violate standards given by Christ.
Simple, really.
Bullypulpit said:Religion doesn't really have all that much to do with 'reality'. Granted, most religions entreat you to not harm others and live a good life, but the moral pay-off lies, not in this world, but in some mythical, metaphysical after-life. If you rigidly adhere to the dogma of your favorite religious text, you'll be rewarded with a glorious after-life...You know, streets paved with gold, a few dozen virgins. You ignore that dogma, you'll suffer eternal and unspeakble agony. Thus, as history has so often shown us, any action can be jusitified so long as it is done in the name of one's favorite deity...up to and including murder and genocide.
rei_t_ex said:You are not answering my question, merely re-stating your position. I did not ask whether you believe them to be true Christians or not - you already stated that you believe that they are not. Clearly, this entails that you see them following different standards than those you view as Christian. My question is, how do you know that you are right? How do you know that your understanding of what the Christian standards are, is the correct one? Clearly, one must have some way to justify one's standards if one is to use those standards to criticise others.
Bullypulpit said:I'm certain Dubbyuh is a sterling example of living up to the teachings of Christ...What with the 150 some executions he has presided over as governor of Texas, the war and suffering he has sanctioned as POTUS, his phony compassionate conservatism. There is even talk amongst some Vatican officials that Dubbyuh is the anti-christ. While he talks a good talk he, in no way walks the walk.
But Kerry believes that he is right, because God tells HIM that he is right via the Bible. I am not challenging your assumption that the Bible is true. That assumption is indeed a priori accepted if one is to accept religion. I am merely pointing out the fact that there are numerous interpretations of the Bible, and without some objective reasoning that your interpretation is the correct one, belittling others as 'fake' Christians is logically wrong. After all, without such reasoning, I see nothing to preclude YOU from being the 'fake' Christian and Kerry from being a 'real' one...-=d=- said:I know I'm 'right' because God tells me I'm 'right' via the bible.
I am doing nothing of the sort. I am not questioning the correctness of Christianity, I am asking what makes you so sure that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one, while differing interpretations of the Bible by other self-proclaimed Christians is wrong. Surely, you see that they can claim the same for you...-=d=- said:What you are attempting to do is shake foundations of Religion, or faith - you aren't asking 'me' a specific question, you are questioning religion as a whole.
rei_t_ex said:But Kerry believes that he is right, because God tells HIM that he is right via the Bible. I am not challenging your assumption that the Bible is true. That assumption is indeed a priori accepted if one is to accept religion. I am merely pointing out the fact that there are numerous interpretations of the Bible, and without some objective reasoning that your interpretation is the correct one, belittling others as 'fake' Christians is logically wrong. After all, without such reasoning, I see nothing to preclude YOU from being the 'fake' Christian and Kerry from being a 'real' one...
I am doing nothing of the sort. I am not questioning the correctness of Christianity, I am asking what makes you so sure that your interpretation of the Bible is the correct one, while differing interpretations of the Bible by other self-proclaimed Christians is wrong. Surely, you see that they can claim the same for you...
Because he says so. How do you know that he does not?-=d=- said:How do you know Kerry believes he's right?
At most one.-=d=- said:There exists only one interpretation of the Bible which is correct.
How do you know? Perhaps God intended a more inspired and looser interpretation of the Bible than the literal one, to foster creativity and free will among his followers. To separate the truly worthy - those that can actually understand His intentions in this way, from the rest?-=d=- said:The literal interpretation, contextually, of what we read. Anything beyond that is 'not a correct interpretation'.
This is simply false. There are several major Churches out there today, that bicker vehemently over the interpretations of the Bible by each. Hear the Catholics speak of the Protestants or the Orthodox speak of the Baptists or Evangelicals or vice versa. There is no harmony among Christians, even though they all go by a similar "accurate translation" and have similar "common sense." Unless you know the true Will of God, you cannot know whether you subscribe to "what God wants us to know" or not.-=d=- said:I know Christians because of the 'fruits' in their lives. Christians know one-another by their conduct.
See, the difference is, I don't subscribe to 'my' interpretation of the Bible. I subscribe to "What God wants us to know" through the bible. No need for interpretation. I have an accurate translation for the original language, and common sense.
No, people use my argument when they are able to appreciate and challenge themselves with the finer underlying issues, rather than simply accepting the simplest of levels and going back to their beer. No direct implication here to anyone, of course...-=d=- said:People use your argument when they are afraid of conviction.
Are you trying to say that you are incapable of justifying your position? Because that is certainly one way that your post can be interpreted by people with and understanding of English and common sense...-=d=- said:Circular logic runs deep in this one...
rei_t_ex said:Are you trying to say that you are incapable of justifying your position? Because that is certainly one way that your post can be interpreted by people with and understanding of English and common sense...
