more info on girl that refused to say "pledge"

The world changes... Back when I was in school, if I had of gotten kicked out of class for not standing during the Pledge of Allegiance, the school principal would have beat my ass and when I got home my father would have beat my ass. The next day at school I would have no trouble standing up because my ass would be too sore to sit on. It just amazes me to see how people act during the playing of the National Anthemn before sports games, car races, etc. You can call it what you want to call it, but when you don't stand up, put your hand over your heart with your cap removed, it's just very rude behavior.

You were born in the wrong country and wrong era..

Germany circa 1933 would have been the perfect time and place for you...

No, I don't think so. Those of you in your early 40's, 30's and younger have grown up in a much different culture than those of us who are older. We who were kids in 50's and 60's or earlier were never indoctrinated in school--we were not told what we should think or believe--but we were required to respect authority and demontrate manners and proper protocol. And that included showing proper respect at all times including respect for the school anthem (and the other schools' anthems too), the Pledge, the National Anthem, and the flag. We weren't required to like it. But we were required to show proper respect. Teachers had absolute authority in the classroom and most kids had parents at home who backed up those teachers.

It did not hurt us or warp our little psyches in the least.

(A bad teacher though--any who got out of line with a student in any way--were generally soon gone.)
 
So what do you think would happen if Obama refused to stand for the flag in Saudi Arabia? Do you really believe our students don't deserve to learn proper deportment now?

I think it polite diplomatically to stand during another country's national anthem. Not to do so would be a slap in the face. To be honest, I think you should stand for anybody's national anthem. Hand over heart? Hhmmm...


I don't even sing ours because it talks about God....

IMO, this whole thing was not about not saying the pledge, but refusing to stand during the pledge. The teacher was well within his rights.....he is suppose to teach those kids how to behave as well as the three "r"s.

The father should be in jail for sending a daughter so sick she couldn't even stand during the pledge to school two days in a row.
 
The world changes... Back when I was in school, if I had of gotten kicked out of class for not standing during the Pledge of Allegiance, the school principal would have beat my ass and when I got home my father would have beat my ass. The next day at school I would have no trouble standing up because my ass would be too sore to sit on. It just amazes me to see how people act during the playing of the National Anthemn before sports games, car races, etc. You can call it what you want to call it, but when you don't stand up, put your hand over your heart with your cap removed, it's just very rude behavior.

You were born in the wrong country and wrong era..

Germany circa 1933 would have been the perfect time and place for you...

No, I don't think so. Those of you in your early 40's, 30's and younger have grown up in a much different culture than those of us who are older. We who were kids in 50's and 60's or earlier were never indoctrinated in school--we were not told what we should think or believe--but we were required to respect authority and demontrate manners and proper protocol. And that included showing proper respect at all times including respect for the school anthem (and the other schools' anthems too), the Pledge, the National Anthem, and the flag. We weren't required to like it. But we were required to show proper respect. Teachers had absolute authority in the classroom and most kids had parents at home who backed up those teachers.

It did not hurt us or warp our little psyches in the least.

(A bad teacher though--any who got out of line with a student in any way--were generally soon gone.)

I agree.
 
yes the world changes, I recall when girls would be kicked out for wearing pants to school.

I remember when my sister got kicked out for wearing a pant suit to school when there was snow on the ground. See in the late 60's, early 70's...a bunch of Californian's came up here and convinced us that open halled schools were a good idea. They probably are in California, but not here. My father returned to the school the next day with my sister and told her counselor that the day he showed up at that school in the snow, in a miniskirt, was the day he could kick my sister out for wearing pants to school. Funny how quickly that rule changed. Before open halls, we wore our pants under our skirts and took them off when we got to school.
 
My understanding is that the girl was 'sick' the first day, second did the same on purpose. I agree that she has the right to not say the pledge, saying anything else is 'stuck on stupid.'

Now about the parents and those cheerleading this cause. If one finds themselves at some event where another countries anthem or such were being played, said, wouldn't good taste dictate at least the modicum of respect of standing?

Right to remain sitting? Yes. Right thing to do? No.
 
yes the world changes, I recall when girls would be kicked out for wearing pants to school.

Oh yes. And the boys had to wear belts if their pants had belt loops. (So they cut the belt loops off :)) I remember when the school started letting girls wear jeans to school just on Fridays. It felt soooo wierd. And skirts had to be no shorter than mid knee. I think the schools finally started allowing girls to wear jeans and slacks to school when the mini skirt became so popular and it was almost impossible to find skirts that came down to mid knee. But in those days the men teachers wore dress shirts and ties and often a suit coat as well; the women teachers were impeccably dressed, hair styled, hosiery, dress shoes.

The dress code after the school years was very strict too. Women dressed 'corporate' which meant properly tailored dresses or skirts, hosiery, and dress shoes, usually a 3" or higher heel. Just like the first Friday I wore Jeans to school, the first day I wore a tailored pant suit to work (after the dress code was relaxed), it felt really wierd.

There is something to say for a dress code though. I think kids who are dressed up tend to behave differently than when they are in grodies or play clothes. I know the adults do.
 
yes the world changes, I recall when girls would be kicked out for wearing pants to school.
Depending on the girl in question, the solution might be simply to have her remove them.
 
So what do you think would happen if Obama refused to stand for the flag in Saudi Arabia? Do you really believe our students don't deserve to learn proper deportment now?

I think it polite diplomatically to stand during another country's national anthem. Not to do so would be a slap in the face. To be honest, I think you should stand for anybody's national anthem. Hand over heart? Hhmmm...


I don't even sing ours because it talks about God....

I agree that during a diplomatic ceremony it shows respect to stand during another country's anthem or saying of the pledge.

But standing during the saying of the pledge in a public school means you are still participating. Anyone who declines to participate should not be expected to stand.

Ever since the phrase "under God" was added to the US Pledge it has become part pledge of allegiance and part prayer. The US has a prohibition on state-sponsored prayer in schools therefore the Pledge should not be said at all in public schools, at least not as part of a state-sponsored practice.
 
So what do you think would happen if Obama refused to stand for the flag in Saudi Arabia? Do you really believe our students don't deserve to learn proper deportment now?

I think it polite diplomatically to stand during another country's national anthem. Not to do so would be a slap in the face. To be honest, I think you should stand for anybody's national anthem. Hand over heart? Hhmmm...


I don't even sing ours because it talks about God....

I agree that during a diplomatic ceremony it shows respect to stand during another country's anthem or saying of the pledge.

But standing during the saying of the pledge in a public school means you are still participating. Anyone who declines to participate should not be expected to stand.

Ever since the phrase "under God" was added to the US Pledge it has become part pledge of allegiance and part prayer. The US has a prohibition on state-sponsored prayer in schools therefore the Pledge should not be said at all in public schools, at least not as part of a state-sponsored practice.

I disagree, it's still a ceremony....to not teach them to stand is failing to teach them the appropriate behaviors that they will need in this world.
 
If America is a great nation, why do we have to brainwash children to be loyal to it? Shouldn't we trust that educated, informed, and intelligent persons will stand for the nation if it is worth standing for?

Does the Right not think America's good enough for people to want to stand and fight for without being brainwashed?
 
So what do you think would happen if Obama refused to stand for the flag in Saudi Arabia? Do you really believe our students don't deserve to learn proper deportment now?

I think it polite diplomatically to stand during another country's national anthem. Not to do so would be a slap in the face. To be honest, I think you should stand for anybody's national anthem. Hand over heart? Hhmmm...


I don't even sing ours because it talks about God....

Nobody sings our pledge..as for our national anthem, God isn't mentioned until the last verse and I've never ever heard that sung, all the events I go to pretty they much stop at the first verse.
 
I think it polite diplomatically to stand during another country's national anthem. Not to do so would be a slap in the face. To be honest, I think you should stand for anybody's national anthem. Hand over heart? Hhmmm...


I don't even sing ours because it talks about God....

I agree that during a diplomatic ceremony it shows respect to stand during another country's anthem or saying of the pledge.

But standing during the saying of the pledge in a public school means you are still participating. Anyone who declines to participate should not be expected to stand.

Ever since the phrase "under God" was added to the US Pledge it has become part pledge of allegiance and part prayer. The US has a prohibition on state-sponsored prayer in schools therefore the Pledge should not be said at all in public schools, at least not as part of a state-sponsored practice.

I disagree, it's still a ceremony....to not teach them to stand is failing to teach them the appropriate behaviors that they will need in this world.
The appropriate behavior they will need to know in this world is not to compromise your principals and participate in behavior you think is wrong.
 
☭proletarian☭;2069039 said:
If America is a great nation, why do we have to brainwash children to be loyal to it? Shouldn't we trust that educated, informed, and intelligent persons will stand for the nation if it is worth standing for?

Does the Right not think America's good enough for people to want to stand and fight for without being brainwashed?
Exactly. Saying the Pledge as part of a group is only one small way of showing loyalty. There are many other ways to do the same. Being a good citizen, as in fulfilling your obligation to vote, do jury duty and pay taxes is a more pruductive way of being loyal to your country than saluting a flag.
 
I agree that during a diplomatic ceremony it shows respect to stand during another country's anthem or saying of the pledge.

But standing during the saying of the pledge in a public school means you are still participating. Anyone who declines to participate should not be expected to stand.

Ever since the phrase "under God" was added to the US Pledge it has become part pledge of allegiance and part prayer. The US has a prohibition on state-sponsored prayer in schools therefore the Pledge should not be said at all in public schools, at least not as part of a state-sponsored practice.

I disagree, it's still a ceremony....to not teach them to stand is failing to teach them the appropriate behaviors that they will need in this world.
The appropriate behavior they will need to know in this world is not to compromise your principals and participate in behavior you think is wrong.

The appropriate behavior is to show respect and good manners. We are ambassadors, first of our families, then of our community and also of our country. The way we act when visiting others reflects on ALL of us. If some stupid little sh*t refuses to stand for the Japanese flag while in Japan it reflects badly on all of us and I happen to like the Japanese and their country.

If they won't stand for our own flag, what makes you think they will stand for someone else's? Good manners and respect are always in vogue.
 
☭proletarian☭;2069039 said:
If America is a great nation, why do we have to brainwash children to be loyal to it? Shouldn't we trust that educated, informed, and intelligent persons will stand for the nation if it is worth standing for?

Does the Right not think America's good enough for people to want to stand and fight for without being brainwashed?
Exactly. Saying the Pledge as part of a group is only one small way of showing loyalty. There are many other ways to do the same. Being a good citizen, as in fulfilling your obligation to vote, do jury duty and pay taxes is a more pruductive way of being loyal to your country than saluting a flag.

No one is debating her right not to say the pledge, only her lack of manners in sitting during it.
 
Her fellow students need to assist her, encourage her, "Stand the fuck up, you lazy slug" is one way of helping
 
Her fellow students need to assist her, encourage her, "Stand the fuck up, you lazy slug" is one way of helping


Sometimes I get the impression you go out of your way to sound like a total douche.
 
I disagree, it's still a ceremony....to not teach them to stand is failing to teach them the appropriate behaviors that they will need in this world.
The appropriate behavior they will need to know in this world is not to compromise your principals and participate in behavior you think is wrong.

The appropriate behavior is to show respect and good manners. We are ambassadors, first of our families, then of our community and also of our country. The way we act when visiting others reflects on ALL of us. If some stupid little sh*t refuses to stand for the Japanese flag while in Japan it reflects badly on all of us and I happen to like the Japanese and their country.

If they won't stand for our own flag, what makes you think they will stand for someone else's? Good manners and respect are always in vogue.
Personal experience. I stopped saying or standing for the US Pledge in 8th grade but I stand for the Marseillaise when in France.

So that a person will know it's good manners to stand during patriotic ceremonies in foreign countries does not justify denying a student's civil right not to stand during the Pledge in school.
 

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