More guns keeping us safe.......

[Blues Man]

If any of thes epeople could magically stop mass shootings there would be no effect on the national murder rate whatsoever

Our homicide rate is 4-5x higher than countries with strong gun control. Lots of lives to be saved.

Wrong, that's like saying everyone who eats carrots dies........

We have higher murder rates of all types because our welfare system destroyed our inner city families in the 70s and 80s...Europe fell behind because of the war...

How do I know....? Because in the 1990s, more Americans began to buy and own guns...and our gun murder rate went down 49%, the exact opposite of what you anti-gun extremists said would happen.

You mean it went down right when we got background checks. WI got concealed carry and crime has increased every year since...

And you lied...you didn't even put any effort into that lie...you just pulled it out of your ass......

No homicides in Green Bay in 2017 contributes to 10 percent drop in crime

GREEN BAY, Wis. (WFRV) - The Green Bay Police Department reports crime in the city dropped significantly last year - compared to the year before. Local 5's Kris Schuller has more on the numbers and reaction from residents who feel very safe living in Northeast Wisconsin.

If there's trouble within the Wilder Park neighborhood - Neighborhood Association President Scott Vanidestine says he can contact police and they'll respond quickly.

“They know the neighborhoods, they know what's going on. They take care of us out there,” said Vanidestine.

And based on just released uniform crime report numbers for the city of Green Bay for 2017 - the police department does a good job of taking care of the entire community.

“A 9.77 percent decrease in total crime in Green Bay is just fantastic, that's a number any chief across the country would be happy to have for crime numbers in their city,” said Police Chief Andrew Smith.

For violent crime robbery was down nearly 10 percent, rape nearly four and as for homicides, we'll there weren't any.

“We haven't done that since 1981 in Green Bay, so that's a terrific number for us as well,” said Smith.

Property crimes also saw significant reductions with burglary down 28 percent and theft down eight percent. Combined total crime in 2017 was down almost 10 percent when compared to 2016.
=========

MPD: Homicides down two years in a row

MILWAUKEE - The number of homicides in Milwaukee has decreased over the last two years, according to data from the Milwaukee Police Department.

According to the MPD, there were 119 homicides in 2017, down from 142 in 2016. In 2015 there were 147 homicides.
=================

Green bay...


http://www.wbay.com/content/news/Bucking-national-trend-violent-crime-down-in-the-Green-Bay-area-448715923.html


In Green Bay, those type of crimes are down in the last year. They're down 13 percent over the past six years.
Even property crimes are decreasing. Police credit the community for driving these numbers down.
===================

As another violent year ends, memories of homicide victims live on

Milwaukee's per capita homicide rate was 23.7 per 100,000 residents — a lower rate than the 26.27 per 100,000 residents in 1991.


“You’re seeing a rebirth:” Crime rates in Milwaukee’s Amani neighborhood down significantly

The data shows crime in 2016 compared with 2015 was down in the Amani neighborhood by 10.42%. For the city as a whole, the decline was 4.66%.

---

Over the past four years: crime in the Amani neighborhood declined 26.36% -- for the city: 10.86%.
5 years of concealed carry: Law obscures impact

And to prove me wrong you post a bunch of random stories? How about we look at the crime rates for the state?
Wisconsin Crime Rates 1960 - 2016
Concealed carry in 2011
Violent crime rates:
2011: 249.9
2016: 305.9

Murder:
2011: 2.4
2016: 4.0

What a success.

Your violent crime numbers are insufficient

How many of those were actually committed with a gun?

You see I was actually the victim of a violent crime and there was no gun used but I still ended up with cracked ribs, a fractured eye orbital, a serious concussion and a lacerated spleen. I still have the scar under my left eye as a reminder that there are violent people in this world.

So it rings hollow when you say people shouldn't have the right to carry in order to protect themselves.

I've had a CCW permit since i was 21 and in all that time the fact that I own guns and carry i have never committed any crime.

 

[Blues Man]

Wrong, that's like saying everyone who eats carrots dies........

We have higher murder rates of all types because our welfare system destroyed our inner city families in the 70s and 80s...Europe fell behind because of the war...

How do I know....? Because in the 1990s, more Americans began to buy and own guns...and our gun murder rate went down 49%, the exact opposite of what you anti-gun extremists said would happen.

You mean it went down right when we got background checks. WI got concealed carry and crime has increased every year since...

And since criminals use straw buyers, who can pass any background check, your lame attempt at ignoring the truth that normal people who own guns don't increase the gun crime rate is noted and expected.......

Your entire argument....more guns = more gun crime.....is wrong, and can't explain how the U.S. experienced a 49% decrease in gun murder and a 75% decrease in gun crime as more Americans over the last 26 years bought, owned and carried guns....

We have the most guns and the most gun crime. Seems pretty simple. And yes there are lots of loop holes you have created for criminals to get guns. We really need stronger laws.

Yeppers, we do. And the more guns we get into circulation the fewer crimes there are. Thanks for pointing that fact out to us!

Then why has crime increased in WI since they got concealed carry?

Saying that one single variable is responsible for a complex social issue is beyond stupid

 

[Blues Man]

If guns made you safer the whole world would have them.
They don't make you safer, they make you more likely to get shot.

Only cretins would argue otherwise.

Gun lovers in the US are brainwashed, you wasting your time.
15 000 deaths, hundreds of thousands wounded, what better argument one can provide? Fauxnews and NRA tells them that's just the norm.

The fact that you are ignoring is that most murders where a gun is used are committed by people who can't legally possess a gun.

But instead of addressing that fact and suggesting ways to keep guns out of the hands of those who can't legally posses them you want people who will never commit any crime to be prohibited from owning guns.

We already have gun laws on the books but we do not enforce them so until we do you cannot say that we need more gun laws

 

[2aguy]

So is everyone else who has lost a child to these scumbags. How about eliminating gun free zones that place these poor kids in a barrel for any asshole to murder with impunity.

Our schools here are gun free zones. Just try and get a gun into those schools now. You won't make it even to the entrance gate anymore. The Community no longer tolerates it. You seem to believe that it's a safe thing to have everyone prancing down the street with AR-15s. I say it's going to be hard to tell the mass shooter from the ones that are not the mass shooters. It's better to prevent it in the first place. And it doesn't take more guns to prevent it. It takes community involvement. Even if it's your "Right" to walk down the street with an AR-15, expect 5 cops to circle you and make sure you are not up to no good. About the 3rd time this happens to you you will probably decide to leave your AR home. Those cops are going to be very serious and very intense during the episode. And exactly where the hell are you going with that AR-15 in the first place that you are going to need that kind of firepower? Put yourself in the communities shoes for once. And leave the AR home. Get a concealed weapons permit and carry that way if you want. But stay away from schools, government buildings, bars and such that ARE gun free zones by law in most states and counties. If you can't do that maybe you need to be spread eagle on the sidewalk.

Don't be stupid. Any gun free zone is an invitation to any mass murderer. They know that they will have free reign to commit their atrocity.

You still don't get it. Our schools are gun free. But to get them you have to go through a non gun free area. Some have tried and failed. And it isn't just the cops,it's the community involvement as well. Yes, it's your right to walk around with your AR-15 but don't be surprised if 5 very nervous cops surround you and politely ask you your intentions. I had a German Police very courteously discuss things with me. Of course, that Uzi was pointed at me at all times. he could afford to be polite. I could not afford to be otherwise. Around here, you have the right to walk around with that AR but I suggest you don't. You may end up being stupid and you don't get to be stupid even once.

No, daryl, it is YOU who don't get it. They find guns in PRISON. If bad people can get guns into prison what makes you think you can ever get them out of society. Your positions are infantile and asinine and ignore reality.

You keep changing the subject. What next, you going to bring up krispy cream and how it's killing us all?

You are just throwing crap at the wall and hoping something will stick.

Back to the original subject, In the high Crime areas, over 60% of the weapons used there are imported from locations where they were purchased without any background checks (legal), no ID of any kind (Legal) and then transported (Illegal) to the high crime areas (Illegal) and then distributed (Illegal). You can stop 60% of those guns from the streets with simple background checks with proper IDs and bust those people that won't comply with the background check. Pretty simple. Less guns in the hands of Criminals in high crime areas. No part of the 2nd amendment will be infringed. Only the Criminal will have his "Rights" infringed. But he never bothered with any rights anyway. Before you go off on this, I already displayed the Treasury Department's info supporting this and don't feel the need to dig it out again. I shouldn't have to do this every 3 weeks or so because your bunch hopes that we all will forget. We have already had this argument and you lost (or one of your gunnutz lost). Get over it and get on to something else by starting a new message line.

You keep doing it....making up things and then pretending they are true.

Criminals use friends and family to get their guns, they steal their guns and then, once those guns are in the black market, they buy and trade them in the black market. Friends and family can buy guns at gun stores because they can pass Federal Background checks, they have clean records. Criminals do not like "private sales" because they are afraid the seller could be under cover law enforcement, and even then, those same friends and family could pass a background check for a private sale since they can pass a background check for a gun store sale. The magic of background checks that makes you anti-gun extremists giddy is kind of amazing. They don't stop criminals, or mass shooters, but you throw out the words "Background Check," like it is a magical series of words. What you either fail to realize, or do understand and agree with......background checks are simply a way for you numb nuts to demand gun registration.

When background checks continue to produce the results you say you want, a reduction in gun crime...you push for the even more magical "Universal Background Checks," because that will magically make private sales magical too. Even though criminals don't like to get their guns through private sales, or they can simply send their baby mommas to buy the guns because they can pass the "universal background check," too......

Then, after you get universal background checks and they continue to fail to stop criminals and mass shooters....you will come back and bitch.....but...if we only had universal gun registration, then universal background checks would actually do the magic we said they would......

The reason you want universal gun registration? Because you need to know who has the guns before you ban and call for confiscation, so you have the list of owners you can prosecute if they refuse to submit to your confiscation. This is how it was done in Australia, Britain, Germany, France, Canada, New York, California, various other locations in the U.S.........and most recently in New zealand.....

You need gun registration first, and then, when you get the power to actually ban guns, you know whose door to knock on......

 

[2aguy]

They actually did CDC level research to find that number.....isn't that what you asshats keep demanding....more CDC research? Until it proves the opposite of what you want to find...right?

You are still making that false claim? You love being dishonest.

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Are you really this stupid? I linked to the research from the CDC.....I gave you the Department of Justice study.....and the other 16 studies on gun self defense.....

Actual research by both private and government researchers, the majority of them, including Dr. Kleck, anti-gun in their belief on gun control.

You make things up....and then post them.....

 

[Ernie S.]

They actually did CDC level research to find that number.....isn't that what you asshats keep demanding....more CDC research? Until it proves the opposite of what you want to find...right?

You are still making that false claim? You love being dishonest.

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Did you actually read the article? I would have to assume you did not, or perhaps you didn't comprehend what you read. More likely, however is the fact that you are so intellectually dishonest that you refuse to accept facts that destroy your emotionally held position.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You are still making that false claim? You love being dishonest.

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Did you actually read the article? I would have to assume you did not, or perhaps you didn't comprehend what you read. More likely, however is the fact that you are so intellectually dishonest that you refuse to accept facts that destroy your emotionally held position.

I read the article, comprehended the article, even went as far as to follow up on the source data of the article. Otherwise, how would I know that it used Klek as it's source data. And I had already followed Kleck's source data to CDC to know that the source data was false as well. Using any information that Klek provides to arrive at any conclusion will always end up with more false data. And I already showed how the math is so hyper inflated that there is no way on heaven and earth that it can possibly be believed by any sane person. (hint, hint).

 

[2aguy]

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Did you actually read the article? I would have to assume you did not, or perhaps you didn't comprehend what you read. More likely, however is the fact that you are so intellectually dishonest that you refuse to accept facts that destroy your emotionally held position.

I read the article, comprehended the article, even went as far as to follow up on the source data of the article. Otherwise, how would I know that it used Klek as it's source data. And I had already followed Kleck's source data to CDC to know that the source data was false as well. Using any information that Klek provides to arrive at any conclusion will always end up with more false data. And I already showed how the math is so hyper inflated that there is no way on heaven and earth that it can possibly be believed by any sane person. (hint, hint).

Moron, it didn't use Kleck.....Kleck found the data the CDC didn't publish......are you really that dumb?

 

[Ernie S.]

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Did you actually read the article? I would have to assume you did not, or perhaps you didn't comprehend what you read. More likely, however is the fact that you are so intellectually dishonest that you refuse to accept facts that destroy your emotionally held position.

I read the article, comprehended the article, even went as far as to follow up on the source data of the article. Otherwise, how would I know that it used Klek as it's source data. And I had already followed Kleck's source data to CDC to know that the source data was false as well. Using any information that Klek provides to arrive at any conclusion will always end up with more false data. And I already showed how the math is so hyper inflated that there is no way on heaven and earth that it can possibly be believed by any sane person. (hint, hint).

Obviously, you didn't comprehend. You've got it back assward. CDC did the studyin several staqtes each year for several years. They didn't publish the data, likely because it didn't fit their agenda. Kleck used that data to extrapolate a nation wide trend and published it. Try again, fool.

Or maybe you're not so much a fool as a liar?

 

[westwall]

You are still making that false claim? You love being dishonest.

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Are you really this stupid? I linked to the research from the CDC.....I gave you the Department of Justice study.....and the other 16 studies on gun self defense.....

Actual research by both private and government researchers, the majority of them, including Dr. Kleck, anti-gun in their belief on gun control.

You make things up....and then post them.....

He also reads assorted crap on the internet and posts huge swaths of gun related nonsense, that invariably is wrong. That's the difference between him and us, we don't need to look up the facts and figures on antique guns, and we know more about firearms than he ever will.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Did you actually read the article? I would have to assume you did not, or perhaps you didn't comprehend what you read. More likely, however is the fact that you are so intellectually dishonest that you refuse to accept facts that destroy your emotionally held position.

I read the article, comprehended the article, even went as far as to follow up on the source data of the article. Otherwise, how would I know that it used Klek as it's source data. And I had already followed Kleck's source data to CDC to know that the source data was false as well. Using any information that Klek provides to arrive at any conclusion will always end up with more false data. And I already showed how the math is so hyper inflated that there is no way on heaven and earth that it can possibly be believed by any sane person. (hint, hint).

Obviously, you didn't comprehend. You've got it back assward. CDC did the studyin several staqtes each year for several years. They didn't publish the data, likely because it didn't fit their agenda. Kleck used that data to extrapolate a nation wide trend and published it. Try again, fool.

Or maybe you're not so much a fool as a liar?

Stop and think about it. The data was not published. Actually, it was published. I saw the data. And it was exactly what I said it was. It didn't mention DGUs at all. The figures KIek used was ALL Gun Discharges including criminal, police and military. Then the total was the 1.3 million. Of course, the original Klek report claimed 2.3 million but he later on corrected it to 1.3 just for DGUs. CDC is still in that business. Here is the CDC report for 2017 for firearms. BTW, Firearms didn't even make the top 20 list of deaths in the United States.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf
Firearm-related mortalityIn 2017, 39,773 persons died from firearm-related injuries in the United States (Tables 5, 6, 8, and I–3). In 2017, the age-adjusted death rate for firearm-related injuries for the total population increased significantly, by 1.7% from 11.8 in 2016 to 12.0 in 2017 (Tables 5, 10, and I–3). For males in 2017, the age-adjusted death rate for firearm-related injuries was 6.1 times the rate for females. The rate for firearm-related mortality increased 2.0% for males from 2016 to 2017. The rate for females in 2017 was unchanged from 2016. The age-adjusted death rate for non-Hispanic white males was 54.9% lower than for non-Hispanic black males and 73.9% higher than for Hispanic males. The rate for non-Hispanic white females was 15.6% lower than for non-Hispanic black females and 111.1% higher than for Hispanic females. Among the major race–ethnicity–sex groups, the age-adjusted death rates for firearm-related injuries increased significantly in 2017 from 2016 for non-Hispanic white males (3.2%). The rates for non-Hispanic white females, non-Hispanic black males, non-Hispanic black females, Hispanic males, and Hispanic females did not change significantly.

Look at table 5, 6, 8 and I-3. In order to get it even to register, they had to lump drug induced AND firearms deaths together. Klek is a liar, a cheat and a fake. He used funny math to get his figures. No, the CDC didn't get out of that business. Only you rightwingnutcases believe they are trying to support gun control. Nope, they just present the facts. And in this case, the facts pretty much say that firearms, overall, are not a real problem. What we do see in the real world is, there are pockets of problems using firearms that ARE the problem and they make the news. Your side wants to scare us all to arm ourselves while the other side wants to scare us all to disarm ourselves. Your attempt at using Klek and his funny numbers don't cut it. And every news report that the rightwingnutjobs have presented has always been linked right back to the original Klek source that was debunked almost 20 years ago.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Are you really this stupid? I linked to the research from the CDC.....I gave you the Department of Justice study.....and the other 16 studies on gun self defense.....

Actual research by both private and government researchers, the majority of them, including Dr. Kleck, anti-gun in their belief on gun control.

You make things up....and then post them.....

He also reads assorted crap on the internet and posts huge swaths of gun related nonsense, that invariably is wrong. That's the difference between him and us, we don't need to look up the facts and figures on antique guns, and we know more about firearms than he ever will.

If you bothered to read what I typed in the previous message you would note that you just won an award. Wear it proudly. You earned it.

 

[Ernie S.]

I give up on this idjut. I don't mind discussing issues with someone who's opinion differs from mine and can support their claims with facts, but I will not debate an intellectually dishonest man.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I give up on this idjut. I don't mind discussing issues with someone who's opinion differs from mine and can support their claims with facts, but I will not debate an intellectually dishonest man.

What's the matter, you don't like the data? You don't like the REAL CDC data? I guess you would rather accept the made up data from a fruitcake that all other fruitcake "Experts" base their opinions on. So don't debate. It's not a debate anyway. It's a lesson not learned. And you scream "Fake News" and then present this.

 

[2aguy]

You still claim your opinion is more valid than actual facts? Even facts collected by a government agency during the obama administration? I still appreciate the irony in your screen name. Don't ever change!

Unfortunately that never happened. The CDC has never done a study to see how many gun defenses there are. That is a fact!

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Are you really this stupid? I linked to the research from the CDC.....I gave you the Department of Justice study.....and the other 16 studies on gun self defense.....

Actual research by both private and government researchers, the majority of them, including Dr. Kleck, anti-gun in their belief on gun control.

You make things up....and then post them.....

He also reads assorted crap on the internet and posts huge swaths of gun related nonsense, that invariably is wrong. That's the difference between him and us, we don't need to look up the facts and figures on antique guns, and we know more about firearms than he ever will.

I have to say that as far as guns go, I don't know all that much......guns aren't my area of interest so my knowledge is fairly rudimentary........but that guy? He needs to do a lot more work.......

 

[2aguy]

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Did you actually read the article? I would have to assume you did not, or perhaps you didn't comprehend what you read. More likely, however is the fact that you are so intellectually dishonest that you refuse to accept facts that destroy your emotionally held position.

I read the article, comprehended the article, even went as far as to follow up on the source data of the article. Otherwise, how would I know that it used Klek as it's source data. And I had already followed Kleck's source data to CDC to know that the source data was false as well. Using any information that Klek provides to arrive at any conclusion will always end up with more false data. And I already showed how the math is so hyper inflated that there is no way on heaven and earth that it can possibly be believed by any sane person. (hint, hint).

Obviously, you didn't comprehend. You've got it back assward. CDC did the studyin several staqtes each year for several years. They didn't publish the data, likely because it didn't fit their agenda. Kleck used that data to extrapolate a nation wide trend and published it. Try again, fool.

Or maybe you're not so much a fool as a liar?

Stop and think about it. The data was not published. Actually, it was published. I saw the data. And it was exactly what I said it was. It didn't mention DGUs at all. The figures KIek used was ALL Gun Discharges including criminal, police and military. Then the total was the 1.3 million. Of course, the original Klek report claimed 2.3 million but he later on corrected it to 1.3 just for DGUs. CDC is still in that business. Here is the CDC report for 2017 for firearms. BTW, Firearms didn't even make the top 20 list of deaths in the United States.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf
Firearm-related mortalityIn 2017, 39,773 persons died from firearm-related injuries in the United States (Tables 5, 6, 8, and I–3). In 2017, the age-adjusted death rate for firearm-related injuries for the total population increased significantly, by 1.7% from 11.8 in 2016 to 12.0 in 2017 (Tables 5, 10, and I–3). For males in 2017, the age-adjusted death rate for firearm-related injuries was 6.1 times the rate for females. The rate for firearm-related mortality increased 2.0% for males from 2016 to 2017. The rate for females in 2017 was unchanged from 2016. The age-adjusted death rate for non-Hispanic white males was 54.9% lower than for non-Hispanic black males and 73.9% higher than for Hispanic males. The rate for non-Hispanic white females was 15.6% lower than for non-Hispanic black females and 111.1% higher than for Hispanic females. Among the major race–ethnicity–sex groups, the age-adjusted death rates for firearm-related injuries increased significantly in 2017 from 2016 for non-Hispanic white males (3.2%). The rates for non-Hispanic white females, non-Hispanic black males, non-Hispanic black females, Hispanic males, and Hispanic females did not change significantly.

Look at table 5, 6, 8 and I-3. In order to get it even to register, they had to lump drug induced AND firearms deaths together. Klek is a liar, a cheat and a fake. He used funny math to get his figures. No, the CDC didn't get out of that business. Only you rightwingnutcases believe they are trying to support gun control. Nope, they just present the facts. And in this case, the facts pretty much say that firearms, overall, are not a real problem. What we do see in the real world is, there are pockets of problems using firearms that ARE the problem and they make the news. Your side wants to scare us all to arm ourselves while the other side wants to scare us all to disarm ourselves. Your attempt at using Klek and his funny numbers don't cut it. And every news report that the rightwingnutjobs have presented has always been linked right back to the original Klek source that was debunked almost 20 years ago.

The figures KIek used was ALL Gun Discharges including criminal, police and military.

Since it states in both Kleck's study, and the Centers for Disease research that professional use of guns was not included.......nothing you say is even remotely accurate or truthful...

 

[2aguy]

That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses

And lo and behold, it links directly and indirectly right back to Gary Klek. No wonder those figures are so high. If there were 1.3 million DGU (Defensive Gun Units) per year as it claims (Klek made that claim, not CDC although he claims CDC made that claim but it turned out to be a lie), that would be a total of over 3600 per day. That would be over 2.5 per minute. Hate to break it to you but we would have run out of criminals decades ago and would have welcomed importing illegal armed criminals to make up the difference so that our "Dirty Harry's" would have something to do. With that many DGUs as claimed, you know that the DGUs can't have meaningful employment. They are spending all their time mowing down criminals on the streets.

Klek claims that it's the CDC and others just pick up that it comes from the CDC when in reality it comes from Klek's furtile mind.

Did you actually read the article? I would have to assume you did not, or perhaps you didn't comprehend what you read. More likely, however is the fact that you are so intellectually dishonest that you refuse to accept facts that destroy your emotionally held position.

I read the article, comprehended the article, even went as far as to follow up on the source data of the article. Otherwise, how would I know that it used Klek as it's source data. And I had already followed Kleck's source data to CDC to know that the source data was false as well. Using any information that Klek provides to arrive at any conclusion will always end up with more false data. And I already showed how the math is so hyper inflated that there is no way on heaven and earth that it can possibly be believed by any sane person. (hint, hint).

Obviously, you didn't comprehend. You've got it back assward. CDC did the studyin several staqtes each year for several years. They didn't publish the data, likely because it didn't fit their agenda. Kleck used that data to extrapolate a nation wide trend and published it. Try again, fool.

Or maybe you're not so much a fool as a liar?

Stop and think about it. The data was not published. Actually, it was published. I saw the data. And it was exactly what I said it was. It didn't mention DGUs at all. The figures KIek used was ALL Gun Discharges including criminal, police and military. Then the total was the 1.3 million. Of course, the original Klek report claimed 2.3 million but he later on corrected it to 1.3 just for DGUs. CDC is still in that business. Here is the CDC report for 2017 for firearms. BTW, Firearms didn't even make the top 20 list of deaths in the United States.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf
Firearm-related mortalityIn 2017, 39,773 persons died from firearm-related injuries in the United States (Tables 5, 6, 8, and I–3). In 2017, the age-adjusted death rate for firearm-related injuries for the total population increased significantly, by 1.7% from 11.8 in 2016 to 12.0 in 2017 (Tables 5, 10, and I–3). For males in 2017, the age-adjusted death rate for firearm-related injuries was 6.1 times the rate for females. The rate for firearm-related mortality increased 2.0% for males from 2016 to 2017. The rate for females in 2017 was unchanged from 2016. The age-adjusted death rate for non-Hispanic white males was 54.9% lower than for non-Hispanic black males and 73.9% higher than for Hispanic males. The rate for non-Hispanic white females was 15.6% lower than for non-Hispanic black females and 111.1% higher than for Hispanic females. Among the major race–ethnicity–sex groups, the age-adjusted death rates for firearm-related injuries increased significantly in 2017 from 2016 for non-Hispanic white males (3.2%). The rates for non-Hispanic white females, non-Hispanic black males, non-Hispanic black females, Hispanic males, and Hispanic females did not change significantly.

Look at table 5, 6, 8 and I-3. In order to get it even to register, they had to lump drug induced AND firearms deaths together. Klek is a liar, a cheat and a fake. He used funny math to get his figures. No, the CDC didn't get out of that business. Only you rightwingnutcases believe they are trying to support gun control. Nope, they just present the facts. And in this case, the facts pretty much say that firearms, overall, are not a real problem. What we do see in the real world is, there are pockets of problems using firearms that ARE the problem and they make the news. Your side wants to scare us all to arm ourselves while the other side wants to scare us all to disarm ourselves. Your attempt at using Klek and his funny numbers don't cut it. And every news report that the rightwingnutjobs have presented has always been linked right back to the original Klek source that was debunked almost 20 years ago.

Moron....the link you gave was 2017 on Vital Statistics....you really need to stop.....the CDC research was done in the 1990s, as was Kleck's and the Department of Justice research.....you really need to stop, spend some time doing just basic research......