More Good News, although some people will be unhappy.

[Doug]

Ha ha! Well, that' s the problem with using analogies, someone can always come along and take yours and go you one better.

So you believe, I take it, that there is literally nothing that we can do that has a prayer of turning Iraq onto a course which will lead to a democratic government -- with all the reservations one has to make about democratic governments? You believe all is lost?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Ha ha! Well, that' s the problem with using analogies, someone can always come along and take yours and go you one better.

So you believe, I take it, that there is literally nothing that we can do that has a prayer of turning Iraq onto a course which will lead to a democratic government -- with all the reservations one has to make about democratic governments? You believe all is lost?

No he does not. If a democrat wins and is President next, suddenly the war will be winnable and it will be because the Democrats saved the day.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

All the die hard " we lost, it was abad idea, we can not win" crowd will be sing a different tune in 2009 if Hillary wins and continues the war. People like Maineman will suddenly be telling us how we always were gonna win and the arabs CAN get along just fine now. Warner will be telling us how the dems always had the right idea and now they are going to win the war for us. Larkinn will suddenly see the light and agree that we can win now. Jillian will be clapping and howling about how we have turned the corner. And on and on.

 

[Paulie]

All the die hard " we lost, it was abad idea, we can not win" crowd will be sing a different tune in 2009 if Hillary wins and continues the war. People like Maineman will suddenly be telling us how we always were gonna win and the arabs CAN get along just fine now. Warner will be telling us how the dems always had the right idea and now they are going to win the war for us. Larkinn will suddenly see the light and agree that we can win now. Jillian will be clapping and howling about how we have turned the corner. And on and on.

RGS, Hillary WILL continue the war.

You do realize that she has been given the most campaign money from the major defense contractors, right?

Why would defense contractors, who profit the MOST from continued war, give her the most money if she was going to try and end it?

This is why the paradigm of the political spectrum is ruining this country. People can't see the forest for the trees.

I'm the one who gets called "nuts" and "kook" because I see through the bullshit. How am i nuts for assuming that the candidate who gets the most money from corporations that profit the most from war, is going to CONTINUE the war?

What the fuck do you think those corporations are paying her for?

And is it any more of a coincidence that she gets the most publicity and coverage during her campaign? She's been basically forced down our throats, along with Obama, Giuliani, Romney, etc...

Those are the ones who will benefit the corporations the most.

I just don't understand how seeing the obvious, instead of pretending it's not happening to protect "my party", makes me nuts.

 

[Shogun]

Hey, the republicans had their swing at the plate and it doesn't seem car magnets and puppet governments cleaned up that big can of phantom WMD shit sold the the US by your 04 presidential choice, RGS...


If a dem can turn this pissbowl into lemonade then hell fucking yea. It's so fucking pathetic that you'd rather have some "im right, you're wrong" vendetta against half of America rather than peace in the M.E. I tellya, it sure is true that we gladhand the guy who BROKE the fucking mirror equally as the person that cleaned up the mess! If you feel duped and/or disapointing that your 04 bullshit GOP platform just didn't turn out the way you sere SURE it would then boofuckinhoo. If a dem fixes the shit YOUR party sold then swallow your fucking pride for the sake of humanity, can you? Maybe remember what it's like being an AMERICAN rather than a right wing dittohead?

 

[doniston]

You lefties crack me up. I'd as soon YOU be President as Kerry or Gore. And yes, either would be FAR worse than Bush.

(we are far from being lefties) andon this issue, it appears you were cracked BEFORE you stared listen to us liberals

if you think I would be better than Krerry or GORE, then I sure as hell would be better than BUSH,----but no thanks, I don't want the job

 

[doniston]

All the die hard " we lost, it was abad idea, we can not win" crowd will be sing a different tune in 2009 if Hillary wins and continues the war. People like Maineman will suddenly be telling us how we always were gonna win and the arabs CAN get along just fine now. Warner will be telling us how the dems always had the right idea and now they are going to win the war for us. Larkinn will suddenly see the light and agree that we can win now. Jillian will be clapping and howling about how we have turned the corner. And on and on.

if a democrat said that, Iwould say he or she was wistling in the dark, and out of their ever-lovin gourd. With you saying it, it just reiterates tha you don't know your ass from first base

 

[Larkinn]

No he does not. If a democrat wins and is President next, suddenly the war will be winnable and it will be because the Democrats saved the day.

Its his third post on this board. Surely you don't assume that you know his character already?

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Its a strawman analogy.

Trying to put out a fire at your house, does not cost you hundreds of billions of dollars, it does not cost you the lives of many of your friends and neighbors, it does not earn you the scorn and hatred of your community, and it does not multiply the number of enemies you have.

The following from some Christ and Adam Smith denyin’ Commie’s blog.

Interviewing prisoners at a police detention center in Baghdad, Engel found that "to a man, each one says that it's the American occupation of Iraq that has driven him to violence."

"An aggressor occupied my country, destroyed it and made millions refugees. It is an honor to fight this," said one detainee, a construction company owner who admittedly attacked US troops.

"The US says this is war is part of a global war on terrorism," said another man, an imprisoned engineer. "But people here say the war has increased fanaticism and brought terrorism to Iraq."

"It's the same message Al Qaeda fighters and supporters have told NBC News in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Saudi Arabia," Engel's report continued. "But in Washington a month ago, we found a completely different message."

SACRELIGIOUS AMERICAN SERVICEMAN HATING LIES, EVERY BLASPHEMOUS BIT OF IT!!

Every rent-a-mind Merkin knows the Al Qaedistani terrorists in Eye-wrack and Agakhanistan are ALL non-Sowdi A-rabian, Marksist A-rabs of Eyeraqi, Sirian, and Eyerainian extraction.

And anyone who says otherwise, not only crucifies Jesus all over again, but desecrates The Dukes sacrifice at Iwo Jima!!

If our unbelievably brave boys hadn’t confronted them over there, or in RGS case, in the radio shack at Fort Bliss, our cities would have been obliterated by Saddam’s Strategic Air Command of 10cc motor powered balsawood bombers!

 

[Warner]

Ha ha! Well, that' s the problem with using analogies, someone can always come along and take yours and go you one better.

So you believe, I take it, that there is literally nothing that we can do that has a prayer of turning Iraq onto a course which will lead to a democratic government -- with all the reservations one has to make about democratic governments? You believe all is lost?

I think there is virtually no chance of establishing a "democratic" government in Iraq. Having spent a lot of time with the people/cultures of the region, and over the last couple of years a having spent more than half my time in the region, I think it is quite impossible.

Look at the reality of the situation. We (the USA) are trying to force a governmental model that even we don't use upon a culture far more divided than we were when we had to opt for Federalism over a central "Democratic" government. Doesn't it just seem silly on the face of it? This is not Germany or Japan, which had, for the most part, homogeneous populations after they were defeated. It is much more like Serbia except where the division in Serbia was between two ethnic groups and dated back only about 50 years, in Iraq there are 3 ethnic groups (really more but they fall into 3 main groups) and the divisions go back over a millennium!

Had the post war been run correctly it might, maybe, have been possible to establish a peaceful and for the most part democratic government in Iraq, but I think now it is impossible. The would have to have been shown "the good life". Power and water service needed to be re-established quickly. Quality of life had to be at least as good as it was under Saddam within the first year. We would have needed at least three times the troops to control sectarian violence, and we would have had to prevent the corruption on both sides that has turned this thing into the worst boondoggle of American history. And finally, we needed to respect their culture at all times - Abu Ghraib sealed the deal ensuring we would never win the hearts and minds we desperately needed if we were to achieve victory.

The "surge" should really be called the "sham". The Bush administration tries to claim the surge is responsible for the reduction in sectarian violence. What they (and the so called "drive by media") do not tell you is that coincident with the surge is a huge change in US policy. We have made deals with dominant tribes, mostly Sunni, effectively giving them regional autonomy, something they asked for and were denied 3 years ago! They now control and patrol their own areas rather than attacking us, which has improved security. They have driven out Al-Qaeda not because they have seen the light, but rather that Al-Qaeda's interests now conflict with their own.

I believe the answer at this point is to divide the country into as many states as possible under a model very similar to that which we use. The problem is how to distribute the oil revenue. And the root of this problem is - CHENEY! VP Cheney, and therefore Pres. Bush, cling to the idea that privatization of the oil in Iraq is essential. This of course is contrary to any kind of proportional division of the revenue plan that would be a necessary building block of any Federated Democracy that might be created in Iraq.

As long as there are such deep religious and cultural divisions in Iraq AND there is no fair economic incentive toward peace there is no hope of victory in Iraq.

And in the end it is all about the oil. This war was started with the belief it could be paid for with oil from Iraq. If we simply pull out as some suggest, then we will have to bear the full burden of the outrageous cost of this fiasco. And this is something I don't think the American people can accept.

This war is the biggest FUCK-UP in American history! When all is said and done the USA may have lost its position as the #1 super-power.

 

[Warner]

Warner will be telling us how the dems always had the right idea and now they are going to win the war for us.

Where do you get this shit from?

I voted for Bush in 2000! I didn't vote in the last election - my work does not allow for such things.

That being said, from what I've seen of the candidates Biden (spelling?) seems to be the only one who really gets it - but I have too many problems with him on other issues to say I'd vote for him. None of the candidates look good to me.

What we need is to get our priorities strait:

1) Establish a stable government in Iraq, whatever its form

so that we can:

2) Get the oil to pay for the war, however we must engineer it.

3) Get out of Iraq when 1 and 2 have been accomplished.