More "climate model" BULLSHITE!!!

skookerasbil

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Aug 6, 2009
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As we have been posting in this forum, almost every day, there is a new report of data manipulation as it relates to climate change.

Here is the latest............and ask me if Im not laughing my balls off???

Thursday, July 7, 2011
Paper shows climate models underestimate cooling effect from clouds by a factor of 4

A paper published in the technical newsletter of the Global Energy and Water Cycle Experiment finds that climate models suppress the negative feedback from low clouds, which serve to cool the Earth by reflection of incoming sunlight. The paper notes that cloud feedbacks in computer models are not only uncertain in magnitude, but even in sign (positive or negative). As climate scientist Dr. Roy Spencer has pointed out, a mere 1 to 2% natural variation in cloud cover can alone account for whether there is global warming or global cooling, despite any alleged effects of CO2.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:Using satellite observations, the paper shows that the feedback from low clouds is indeed negative and is underestimated in climate models by a factor of four. This has the effect of the models greatly overestimating global warming from CO2 and underestimating the influence of variations of the Sun/cosmic rays via cloud formation.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Is There a Missing Low Cloud Feedback in Current Climate Models? Graeme L. Stephens
Department of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University, Boulder, Colorado, USA
Radiative feedbacks involving low level clouds are a primary cause of uncertainty in global climate model projections. The feedback in models is not only uncertain in magnitude, but even its sign varies across climate models (e.g., Bony and Dufresne, 2005). These low cloud feedbacks have been hypothesized in terms of the effects of two primary cloud variables—low cloud amount and cloud optical depth. The basis of these feedbacks relies on the connection between these variables and the solar radiation leaving the planet exemplified in the following simple expressions (Stephens, 2005). ...an increase in optical depth with an increase in temperature results in an increase in cloud albedo, suggesting a negative feedback.
...
The net consequence of these biases is that the optical depth of low clouds in GCMs (General Circulation Models) is more than a factor of two greater than observed, resulting in albedos of clouds that are too high. This model low-cloud albedo bias is not a new finding and is not a feature of just these two models. The study of Allan et al. (2007), for example, also noted how the reflection by low-level clouds in the unified model of the UK Meteorological Office is significantly larger than matched satellite observations of albedo, suggesting that this bias also exists in that model. The mean LWP (cloud liquid water path) of model clouds that contributed to this in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change assessment is close to 200 g/m2, which is also nearly a factor of two larger than observed.

The implication of this optical depth bias that owes its source to biases in both the LWP and particle sizes is that the solar radiation reflected by low clouds is significantly enhanced in models compared to real clouds. This reflected sunlight bias has significant implications for the cloud-climate feedback problem. The consequence is that this bias artificially suppresses the low cloud optical depth feedback in models by almost a factor of four and thus its potential role as a negative feedback. This bias explains why the optical depth feedback is practically negligible in most global models (e.g., Colman et al., 2003) and why it has received scant attention in low cloud feedback discussion. These results are also relevant to the model biases in absorbed solar radiation discussed recently by Trenberth and Fasullo (2010) and as explored in more detail in Stephens et al. (2010).

THE HOCKEY SCHTICK: Paper shows climate models underestimate cooling effect from clouds by a factor of 4






more.............winning



:fu::fu::fu::fu::fu::fu:


peewee2-3.jpg
 
Yeah it does concern me as a serious future negative forcing. As you increase water vapor for one you do get more positive forcing with the green house side, but you also get more cloud cover and as the arctic warms that part of the planet shall have more clouds. I've looked through papers that show that this could very well counter co2's warming ability much like sulfur and the solar minimum is currently doing. If all 3 where to come together it could be enough to cause a large enough negative to cause the global temperatures to go down.

The global warmers at the IPCC are to one sided and not able to think this through. First it has been proven that the 50s, 60s and 70s cooling of .1 to .15 was because of the developed worlds sulfur emissions, but then they wouldn't even count the fact that china and India are putting a crap load of it into the atmosphere over the past 10 years. This and the solar minimum from hell have teamed up over the past 8 years and this could come into play within the next few decades.
 
The solar output peaked in 1950 and has been slowly going down since, so you can't explain the warming through solar output since. About .15-.25 of the warming from 1880-1940 was in fact caused by the sun--something like 40 percent of the warming. Sulfer during the 1950s-1970s caused about .1 or so cooling. How the world do you explain wirebender or anyone the forcing for the .4c of warming since 1980 without co2 or other green house forcing(water vapor, methane). YOU CAN'T say the sun because it has decreased since the 1950s and has just taken a giant crap since 2003.

You can't get Y without knowing the reason behind it. You can't discount the effects of co2 without then needing to find the why's of the increase in temperature, which is caused by increase forcing. What is causing it?

200+x=220 and 220=y, so what you have here is to figure out what is causing the forcing that completes the equation. Of course you could say the sun is the 200, which makes up the vast amount of the Y. X is what ever extra forcing. You then could go on and add a z because x could be the natural forcing of co2, water vapor and differences within solar output within shorter time scales. So z would be what ever man is causing. So lets say the sun+the natural green house gases are now know and they're 15, so x=15. Now you have 200+15+z=220. You could figure that out to be 5=z, but if not co2---then what? What would z be that is causing the 5? Most of science believes Z to be co2 caused by man.

What I'm saying is you can show co2 wrong, but then you need to find out what is causing the forcing for the warming...
 
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At present, there is a major arguement concerning whether cloud cover due to increased water vapor from the additional heat in the atmosphere will be a negative, positive, or neutral forcing. Thus far the observations seem to indicate positve.

A very strong La Nina, solar minimum, and increased aerosols, yet the temperature continues to climb.
 
At present, there is a major arguement concerning whether cloud cover due to increased water vapor from the additional heat in the atmosphere will be a negative, positive, or neutral forcing. Thus far the observations seem to indicate positve.

A very strong La Nina, solar minimum, and increased aerosols, yet the temperature continues to climb.

I heard more lower clouds=negative and more higher clouds=positive.
 
At present, there is a major arguement concerning whether cloud cover due to increased water vapor from the additional heat in the atmosphere will be a negative, positive, or neutral forcing. Thus far the observations seem to indicate positve.

A very strong La Nina, solar minimum, and increased aerosols, yet the temperature continues to climb.





No, they don't. So far OBSERVED data tends to infer a negative forcing. It is ONLY IN COMPUTER MODELS that clouds are a positive forcer.
 
At present, there is a major arguement concerning whether cloud cover due to increased water vapor from the additional heat in the atmosphere will be a negative, positive, or neutral forcing. Thus far the observations seem to indicate positve.

A very strong La Nina, solar minimum, and increased aerosols, yet the temperature continues to climb.





No, they don't. So far OBSERVED data tends to infer a negative forcing. It is ONLY IN COMPUTER MODELS that clouds are a positive forcer.

Seems to be a bit over reliance on computer models that are fed their data by biased hunans.

Since they do not have a solid calibration method they have to rely on "hard science" that is manufactured in the minds of the few.
 
The only real data on this subject is the fact that those who have successfuly discredited 'climate change' and 'global warming' were paid lots of money by big energy companies. LOTS. They tried to create doubt in the minds of the population that global warming was real, in order to save their profit margins. Taht is all you need to know. Their information isn't science. It's politics. That's enough truth for me right there. Global warming is real and man made. Everyone who doesn't believe so and tries and tries to convince us otherwise, fuck you.
 
The only real data on this subject is the fact that those who have successfuly discredited 'climate change' and 'global warming' were paid lots of money by big energy companies. LOTS. They tried to create doubt in the minds of the population that global warming was real, in order to save their profit margins. Taht is all you need to know. Their information isn't science. It's politics. That's enough truth for me right there. Global warming is real and man made. Everyone who doesn't believe so and tries and tries to convince us otherwise, fuck you.

fu too man. There is no proof for AGW. Other than it being a political fantasy for some to attmept to proclaim some sort of fake self righteousness it has zero basis in reality.
 
The only real data on this subject is the fact that those who have successfuly discredited 'climate change' and 'global warming' were paid lots of money by big energy companies. LOTS. They tried to create doubt in the minds of the population that global warming was real, in order to save their profit margins. Taht is all you need to know. Their information isn't science. It's politics. That's enough truth for me right there. Global warming is real and man made. Everyone who doesn't believe so and tries and tries to convince us otherwise, fuck you.

fu too man. There is no proof for AGW. Other than it being a political fantasy for some to attmept to proclaim some sort of fake self righteousness it has zero basis in reality.

You're a fucking sheep that listens to the power and money interests in Washington and doesn't give a shit about anybody else but yourself. You'll take whatever 'science' you can to disprove AGW, but all of that anti-AGW science that you ironically hold as gospel is funded by big oil and the powers that be who have a political and profit-saving agenda. it's very simple what is going on- it all comes down to profits for big corporations, and are helping them do that, you dumbass, as well as the rest of the dumb motherfuckers here.
 
The only real data on this subject is the fact that those who have successfuly discredited 'climate change' and 'global warming' were paid lots of money by big energy companies. LOTS. They tried to create doubt in the minds of the population that global warming was real, in order to save their profit margins. Taht is all you need to know. Their information isn't science. It's politics. That's enough truth for me right there. Global warming is real and man made. Everyone who doesn't believe so and tries and tries to convince us otherwise, fuck you.





Totally untrue my friend. The alarmists have discredited themselves. Anytime you resort to falsification of data to support a computer model you are in trouble. And for the record the alarmists have recieved far more money then any group fighting them.

Try reading something other then your cultist nonesnse sometime. Try reading some real science that is based on empirical data and not on computer models that are incapable of recreating the weather that occured 5 days ago.
 
The only real data on this subject is the fact that those who have successfuly discredited 'climate change' and 'global warming' were paid lots of money by big energy companies. LOTS. They tried to create doubt in the minds of the population that global warming was real, in order to save their profit margins. Taht is all you need to know. Their information isn't science. It's politics. That's enough truth for me right there. Global warming is real and man made. Everyone who doesn't believe so and tries and tries to convince us otherwise, fuck you.

fu too man. There is no proof for AGW. Other than it being a political fantasy for some to attmept to proclaim some sort of fake self righteousness it has zero basis in reality.

You're a fucking sheep that listens to the power and money interests in Washington and doesn't give a shit about anybody else but yourself. You'll take whatever 'science' you can to disprove AGW, but all of that anti-AGW science that you ironically hold as gospel is funded by big oil and the powers that be who have a political and profit-saving agenda. it's very simple what is going on- it all comes down to profits for big corporations, and are helping them do that, you dumbass, as well as the rest of the dumb motherfuckers here.





:lol::lol::lol: Gosh but you're stupid. Goldman Sachs is poised to make over a TRILLION dollars if Cap and Tax gets passed. The oil companies as well will make TRILLIONS you fool. FOR NOTHING! You seem to forget that ENRON and Ken Lay (you remember them don't you?) were instrumental in getting the Kyoto agreements signed.

Talk about an uneducated fool, you're at the top of the pile.
 
The only real data on this subject is the fact that those who have successfuly discredited 'climate change' and 'global warming' were paid lots of money by big energy companies. LOTS. They tried to create doubt in the minds of the population that global warming was real, in order to save their profit margins. Taht is all you need to know. Their information isn't science. It's politics. That's enough truth for me right there. Global warming is real and man made. Everyone who doesn't believe so and tries and tries to convince us otherwise, fuck you.





Totally untrue my friend. The alarmists have discredited themselves. Anytime you resort to falsification of data to support a computer model you are in trouble. And for the record the alarmists have recieved far more money then any group fighting them.

Try reading something other then your cultist nonesnse sometime. Try reading some real science that is based on empirical data and not on computer models that are incapable of recreating the weather that occured 5 days ago.

Although you type it calmly, everything you say is pretty much bullshit. It doesn't matter how much they have recieved, if what you say is even true, it matters where that money is coming from, and why. Environmentalists only concern is the environment, hence the term environmentalists. Lobbyists and Lawyers, and the 'scientists' they hire to carry a credible title when delivering this message to the public, care for nothing but money. This is so obvious to me, I don't know how you can continue to feed yourself a lie.

I guess it doesn't matter though. The human race is going to die out anyway... we don't deserve this planet, and it is in the momentous time in history, that assholes with the attitude that you have, will be responsible for it, largely. Really, it is the money makers in Washington, but it is with your support, and your trying to silence those who believe the truth, that do their work for them. For that, I say, fuck you, again. Stop trying to silence common sense and logic because something as transient and fleeting as the American economy to continue working well, and you want a job: that's all it comes down to. You have no reason to take such a strong stance against AGW, except to save your own ass from the actions that would be taken if AGW was taken seriously by the administration. Be at least honest with yourself. I care for the survival of our species, not for money or jobs. Our earth will weather any storm. WE however, will die. Obviously, you don't care about your children or grandchildren, because all you think about is now.
 
fu too man. There is no proof for AGW. Other than it being a political fantasy for some to attmept to proclaim some sort of fake self righteousness it has zero basis in reality.

You're a fucking sheep that listens to the power and money interests in Washington and doesn't give a shit about anybody else but yourself. You'll take whatever 'science' you can to disprove AGW, but all of that anti-AGW science that you ironically hold as gospel is funded by big oil and the powers that be who have a political and profit-saving agenda. it's very simple what is going on- it all comes down to profits for big corporations, and are helping them do that, you dumbass, as well as the rest of the dumb motherfuckers here.





:lol::lol::lol: Gosh but you're stupid. Goldman Sachs is poised to make over a TRILLION dollars if Cap and Tax gets passed. The oil companies as well will make TRILLIONS you fool. FOR NOTHING! You seem to forget that ENRON and Ken Lay (you remember them don't you?) were instrumental in getting the Kyoto agreements signed.

Talk about an uneducated fool, you're at the top of the pile.

Goldman Sachs makes millions no matter what happens. They have their fingers in everything, including within our government, so that is a nonargument. It is simply placing a bet on which they already practically know the outcome, because they are controlling the outcome with the power they have in Washington. Its the same with oil companies. That you think hints at anything, is humorous to me. Try either explaining yourself a little better, or providing links. I am always open to learn about new things. I do want to hear both sides, but thus far, you people have only 'hunches' and 'feelings that it is all a conspiracy.' It's ridiculous. You are politically motivated conservatives who only want to believe that the 'liberal media' is responsible for all of it, and 'those damn liberal tree-huggers' are "at it again." It's a politcal thing for you. it's hatred for the left, with complete disregard for the actual science.
 
Here is testimony of a top NASA scientist who tried to publish scientific results alluding to AGW, and was told by the administration to not speak about it. Wow... what a democracy!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0i4Sx1edJE]YouTube - ‪Global Warming and George Bush‬‏[/ame]
 
I couldn't resist. The sad part is how much truth this satire makes of the actual AGW denier 'argument',' if you even dare to call it that.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOjfxEejS2Y&NR=1]YouTube - ‪George Bush on Global Warming - Spoof by Will Ferrell‬‏[/ame]

(No embedding allowed for this vid)
 
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