Moral Psychology And Religion

[midcan5]

While I disagree with the second paragraph - I am still happy - this is worth sharing.


Moral Psychology And The Misunderstanding Of Religion

By Jonathan Haidt

"It might seem obvious to you that contractual societies are good, modern, creative and free, whereas beehive societies reek of feudalism, fascism, and patriarchy. And, as a secular liberal I agree that contractual societies such as those of Western Europe offer the best hope for living peacefully together in our increasingly diverse modern nations (although it remains to be seen if Europe can solve its current diversity problems).

I just want to make one point, however, that should give contractualists pause: surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people.

I study morality from every angle I can find. Morality is one of those basic aspects of humanity, like sexuality and eating, that can't fit into one or two academic fields. I think morality is unique, however, in having a kind of spell that disguises it. We all care about morality so passionately that it's hard to look straight at it. We all look at the world through some kind of moral lens, and because most of the academic community uses the same lens, we validate each other's visions and distortions. I think this problem is particularly acute in some of the new scientific writing about religion."


http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt07/haidt07_index.html

 

[Annie]

While I disagree with the second paragraph - I am still happy - this is worth sharing.


Moral Psychology And The Misunderstanding Of Religion

By Jonathan Haidt

"It might seem obvious to you that contractual societies are good, modern, creative and free, whereas beehive societies reek of feudalism, fascism, and patriarchy. And, as a secular liberal I agree that contractual societies such as those of Western Europe offer the best hope for living peacefully together in our increasingly diverse modern nations (although it remains to be seen if Europe can solve its current diversity problems).

I just want to make one point, however, that should give contractualists pause: surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people.

I study morality from every angle I can find. Morality is one of those basic aspects of humanity, like sexuality and eating, that can't fit into one or two academic fields. I think morality is unique, however, in having a kind of spell that disguises it. We all care about morality so passionately that it's hard to look straight at it. We all look at the world through some kind of moral lens, and because most of the academic community uses the same lens, we validate each other's visions and distortions. I think this problem is particularly acute in some of the new scientific writing about religion."


http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt07/haidt07_index.html

I can agree with that. What do you find wrong about the second paragraph? Studies have shown that, do you have something to refute it?

 

[mattskramer]

While I disagree with the second paragraph - I am still happy - this is worth sharing.


Moral Psychology And The Misunderstanding Of Religion

By Jonathan Haidt

"It might seem obvious to you that contractual societies are good, modern, creative and free, whereas beehive societies reek of feudalism, fascism, and patriarchy. And, as a secular liberal I agree that contractual societies such as those of Western Europe offer the best hope for living peacefully together in our increasingly diverse modern nations (although it remains to be seen if Europe can solve its current diversity problems).

I just want to make one point, however, that should give contractualists pause: surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people.

I study morality from every angle I can find. Morality is one of those basic aspects of humanity, like sexuality and eating, that can't fit into one or two academic fields. I think morality is unique, however, in having a kind of spell that disguises it. We all care about morality so passionately that it's hard to look straight at it. We all look at the world through some kind of moral lens, and because most of the academic community uses the same lens, we validate each other's visions and distortions. I think this problem is particularly acute in some of the new scientific writing about religion."


http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt07/haidt07_index.html

I’m an agnostic but I do not disagree with the second paragraph:

surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people. Check out the following:

http://www.livescience.com/health/060403_church_good.html

Churchgoers Live Longer

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/03/26_faith.html

UC Berkeley researcher links weekly church attendance to longer, healthier life

http://www.thebostonpilot.com/articlearchives.asp?ID=3866

As it turns out, those who attend church weekly are 25 percent more likely to give to charity than those who attend rarely or never.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20070627/ai_n19324832

Generally, regular churchgoers give away more than the irreligious.

http://www.icnl.org/knowledge/ijnl/vol9iss1/special_2.htm

Churchgoers were far likelier in 2001 to give to 9/11-related causes. On average, people of faith give more than 50 percent more money each year to non-church social welfare organizations than secularists do.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/the_south_rises.html

Evangelicals who attend religious services weekly, when compared with average Americans, are less likely to cohabit as young adults (1% versus 10% of other young adults), to bear a child outside of wedlock (12% versus 33% of other moms), and to divorce (7% versus 9%) and are likelier to be happier.

 

[midcan5]

I can agree with that. What do you find wrong about the second paragraph?

I should have said I personally disagree, as I suffer from too much serotonin or some happy chemical mix. mornings, good coffee, a granddaughter, a long bike ride still are too much happiness. lol

Seriously though, most people are somewhat religious or want to be as they grow closer to mortality, but I don't find them much happier than those of us who see life as just life.

Happiness by Raymond Carver

So early it's still almost dark out.
I'm near the window with coffee,
and the usual early morning stuff
that passes for thought.

When I see the boy and his friend
walking up the road
to deliver the newspaper.

They wear caps and sweaters,
and one boy has a bag over his shoulder.
They are so happy
they aren't saying anything, these boys.

I think if they could, they would take
each other's arm.
It's early in the morning,
and they are doing this thing together.

They come on, slowly.
The sky is taking on light,
though the moon still hangs pale over the water.

Such beauty that for a minute
death and ambition, even love,
doesn't enter into this.

Happiness. It comes on
unexpectedly. And goes beyond, really,
any early morning talk about it.

>>

I should have added 'and a good poem or book are too much happiness.'

 

[eots]

EELS LYRICS

"Things The Grandchildren Should Know"

I go to bed real early
Everybody thinks it's strange
I get up early in the morning
No matter how disappointed i was
With the day before
It feels new

I don't leave the house much
I don't like being around people
Makes me nervous and weird
I don't like going to shows either
It's better for me to stay home
Some might think it means i hate people
But that's not quite right

I do some stupid things
But my heart's in the right place
And this i know

I got a dog
I take him for a walk
And all the people like to say hello
I'm used to staring down at the sidewalk cracks
I'm learning how to say hello
Without too much trouble

I'm turning out just like my father
Though i swore i never would
Now i can say that i have a love for him
I never really understood
What it must have been like for him
Living inside his head

I feel like he's here with me now
Even though he's dead

It's not all good and it's not all bad
Don't believe everything you read
I'm the only one who knows what it's like
So i though i'd better tell you
Before i leave

So in the end i'd like to say
That i'm a very thankful man
I tried to make the most of my situations
And enjoy what i had
I knew true love and i knew passion
And the difference between the two
And i had some regrets
But if i had to do it all again
Well, it's something i'd like to do

 

[midcan5]

Eots, that starts out egotistical to the point of absurdity and then changes to something quite different as if the author isn't sure he really hates everything. While this thread isn't about poetry or writing it is interesting how Carver looks outward instead of inward and finds happiness in the simple moment of being.

 

[Psychoblues]

How about a living wage, expectation of reasonable health protections, no fear from over zealous prosecutors, just a fair shake for all of us that can't afford the luxuries, er, rights of a simple and common life?

 

[midcan5]

How about a living wage, expectation of reasonable health protections, no fear from over zealous prosecutors, just a fair shake for all of us that can't afford the luxuries, er, rights of a simple and common life?

I agree but I have also met people who work at nearly minimum wage, who live in one room flats, who are also happy, and back on topic usually religious or resigned to the fact that this life is a passing thing.

 

[Psychoblues]

What about the others that don't have a flat at all? How about those that have a flat but really need a bigger one? How about those that have houses but can't afford to keep them? How about those that work hard everyday but just can't afford even a flat? What is wrong with this economy?

 

[Psychoblues]

So, you count religion as your excuse. What about those not disposed of it?

 

[mattskramer]

So, you count religion as your excuse. What about those not disposed of it?

I don’t get the connection. How did this turn from an article talking about moral psychology and religion to one about the economy and that there are some very poor people? Would you please clarify what point or supposed connection (comparison or contrast) you are trying to communicate?

 

[midcan5]

So, you count religion as your excuse. What about those not disposed of it?

I'm not religious, was that addressed to me? And I fully agree there are all sorts of levels of need. I turned this discussion to happiness as that was the part I disagreed with in the initial post. Happiness is a hard thing to nail down.

The author argues that morality is more complicated than we often assume and old ideas are being challenged by current science. He brings religion into the picture, not strictly as religion is normally practiced, but rather as a way humans interact with each other and one we can learn from.

These snippet is key.

"It might seem obvious to you that contractual societies are good, modern, creative and free, whereas beehive societies reek of feudalism, fascism, and patriarchy. And, as a secular liberal I agree that contractual societies such as those of Western Europe offer the best hope for living peacefully together in our increasingly diverse modern nations (although it remains to be seen if Europe can solve its current diversity problems).

I just want to make one point, however, that should give contractualists pause: surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people. Most of these effects have been documented in Europe too. If you believe that morality is about happiness and suffering, then I think you are obligated to take a close look at the way religious people actually live and ask what they are doing right.

Don't dismiss religion on the basis of a superficial reading of the Bible and the newspaper. Might religious communities offer us insights into human flourishing? Can they teach us lessons that would improve wellbeing even in a primarily contractualist society."