Moral Psychology And Religion

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by midcan5, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,790
    Thanks Received:
    2,367
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,302
    While I disagree with the second paragraph - I am still happy - this is worth sharing.


    Moral Psychology And The Misunderstanding Of Religion

    By Jonathan Haidt

    "It might seem obvious to you that contractual societies are good, modern, creative and free, whereas beehive societies reek of feudalism, fascism, and patriarchy. And, as a secular liberal I agree that contractual societies such as those of Western Europe offer the best hope for living peacefully together in our increasingly diverse modern nations (although it remains to be seen if Europe can solve its current diversity problems).

    I just want to make one point, however, that should give contractualists pause: surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people.

    I study morality from every angle I can find. Morality is one of those basic aspects of humanity, like sexuality and eating, that can't fit into one or two academic fields. I think morality is unique, however, in having a kind of spell that disguises it. We all care about morality so passionately that it's hard to look straight at it. We all look at the world through some kind of moral lens, and because most of the academic community uses the same lens, we validate each other's visions and distortions. I think this problem is particularly acute in some of the new scientific writing about religion."


    http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt07/haidt07_index.html
     
  2. Annie
    Offline

    Annie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Messages:
    50,847
    Thanks Received:
    4,644
    Trophy Points:
    1,790
    Ratings:
    +4,770
    I can agree with that. What do you find wrong about the second paragraph? Studies have shown that, do you have something to refute it?
     
  3. mattskramer
    Offline

    mattskramer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    5,852
    Thanks Received:
    359
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +359
    I’m an agnostic but I do not disagree with the second paragraph:

    surveys have long shown that religious believers in the United States are happier, healthier, longer-lived, and more generous to charity and to each other than are secular people. Check out the following:

    http://www.livescience.com/health/060403_church_good.html

    Churchgoers Live Longer

    http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2002/03/26_faith.html

    UC Berkeley researcher links weekly church attendance to longer, healthier life

    http://www.thebostonpilot.com/articlearchives.asp?ID=3866

    As it turns out, those who attend church weekly are 25 percent more likely to give to charity than those who attend rarely or never.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20070627/ai_n19324832

    Generally, regular churchgoers give away more than the irreligious.

    http://www.icnl.org/knowledge/ijnl/vol9iss1/special_2.htm

    Churchgoers were far likelier in 2001 to give to 9/11-related causes. On average, people of faith give more than 50 percent more money each year to non-church social welfare organizations than secularists do.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/the_south_rises.html

    Evangelicals who attend religious services weekly, when compared with average Americans, are less likely to cohabit as young adults (1% versus 10% of other young adults), to bear a child outside of wedlock (12% versus 33% of other moms), and to divorce (7% versus 9%) and are likelier to be happier.
     
  4. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,790
    Thanks Received:
    2,367
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,302
    I should have said I personally disagree, as I suffer from too much serotonin or some happy chemical mix. mornings, good coffee, a granddaughter, a long bike ride still are too much happiness. lol

    Seriously though, most people are somewhat religious or want to be as they grow closer to mortality, but I don't find them much happier than those of us who see life as just life.

    Happiness by Raymond Carver

    So early it's still almost dark out.
    I'm near the window with coffee,
    and the usual early morning stuff
    that passes for thought.

    When I see the boy and his friend
    walking up the road
    to deliver the newspaper.

    They wear caps and sweaters,
    and one boy has a bag over his shoulder.
    They are so happy
    they aren't saying anything, these boys.

    I think if they could, they would take
    each other's arm.
    It's early in the morning,
    and they are doing this thing together.

    They come on, slowly.
    The sky is taking on light,
    though the moon still hangs pale over the water.

    Such beauty that for a minute
    death and ambition, even love,
    doesn't enter into this.

    Happiness. It comes on
    unexpectedly. And goes beyond, really,
    any early morning talk about it.

    >>

    I should have added 'and a good poem or book are too much happiness.'
     
  5. eots
    Offline

    eots no fly list

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    Messages:
    28,995
    Thanks Received:
    2,034
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Location:
    IN TH HEARTS AND MINDS OF FREE MEN
    Ratings:
    +2,606
    EELS LYRICS

    "Things The Grandchildren Should Know"

    I go to bed real early
    Everybody thinks it's strange
    I get up early in the morning
    No matter how disappointed i was
    With the day before
    It feels new

    I don't leave the house much
    I don't like being around people
    Makes me nervous and weird
    I don't like going to shows either
    It's better for me to stay home
    Some might think it means i hate people
    But that's not quite right

    I do some stupid things
    But my heart's in the right place
    And this i know

    I got a dog
    I take him for a walk
    And all the people like to say hello
    I'm used to staring down at the sidewalk cracks
    I'm learning how to say hello
    Without too much trouble

    I'm turning out just like my father
    Though i swore i never would
    Now i can say that i have a love for him
    I never really understood
    What it must have been like for him
    Living inside his head

    I feel like he's here with me now
    Even though he's dead

    It's not all good and it's not all bad
    Don't believe everything you read
    I'm the only one who knows what it's like
    So i though i'd better tell you
    Before i leave

    So in the end i'd like to say
    That i'm a very thankful man
    I tried to make the most of my situations
    And enjoy what i had
    I knew true love and i knew passion
    And the difference between the two
    And i had some regrets
    But if i had to do it all again
    Well, it's something i'd like to do
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  6. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,790
    Thanks Received:
    2,367
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,302
    Eots, that starts out egotistical to the point of absurdity and then changes to something quite different as if the author isn't sure he really hates everything. While this thread isn't about poetry or writing it is interesting how Carver looks outward instead of inward and finds happiness in the simple moment of being.
     
  7. Psychoblues
    Offline

    Psychoblues Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,701
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Missisippi
    Ratings:
    +143
    How about a living wage, expectation of reasonable health protections, no fear from over zealous prosecutors, just a fair shake for all of us that can't afford the luxuries, er, rights of a simple and common life?
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. midcan5
    Offline

    midcan5 liberal / progressive

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Messages:
    10,790
    Thanks Received:
    2,367
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Philly, PA
    Ratings:
    +3,302
    I agree but I have also met people who work at nearly minimum wage, who live in one room flats, who are also happy, and back on topic usually religious or resigned to the fact that this life is a passing thing.
     
  9. Psychoblues
    Offline

    Psychoblues Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,701
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Missisippi
    Ratings:
    +143
    What about the others that don't have a flat at all? How about those that have a flat but really need a bigger one? How about those that have houses but can't afford to keep them? How about those that work hard everyday but just can't afford even a flat? What is wrong with this economy?
     
  10. Psychoblues
    Offline

    Psychoblues Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    2,701
    Thanks Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    North Missisippi
    Ratings:
    +143
    So, you count religion as your excuse. What about those not disposed of it?
     

Share This Page