Mofaz: Hamas won upper hand, truce a mistake

[Sunni Man]

^^^^^^ Translation: Juden will do anything for money..........

 

[Jroc]

I continue to think Netanyahu was wooed, not threatened, into agreeing to the ceasefire, and I believe it will hurt him in the election. Do you remember how Netanyahu lectured Obama in the WH when Obama called for negotiations with the PA based on the 1948 ceasefire line? Clearly, Netanyahu understands the limitations of Obama's ability to harm Israel's interests and he is not cowed by him.

Clinton arrived in Cairo with our checkbook open, purchased a few guarantees from Morsi and whispered sweet nothings into Netanyahu's ear about US support during the election and if the ceasefire fails while stuffing some cash into his pocket for a few more Iron Domes and Netanyahu had another Wye moment. It's the same old Netanyahu, full of bluster in debate about opposing Oslo or destroying Hamas but too subtle and too shrewd at times when bold action is called for.

Arik, wake up! Israel needs you. Bibi's soiled his pants again.

Sorry I don't buy it...Obama was just reelected, he doesn't have the limitations he had before, Netanyahu knows this, and this “deal” doesn’t help him politically anyway. He won't let Hamas rearm, if arms continue to flow through the Sinai, this stupid cease fire won't hold for shit. And it won’t, so you're trying to tell me that Netanyahu will sell out his people? No way we're talking about survival here.

I'm not saying Netanyahu is selling out his people; I'm just questioning his judgment. It is a myth that Obama now has a free hand to deal with Israel as he likes. Both houses of Congress just passed near unanimous resolutions supporting Pillar of Defense, and if Obama tried to punish Israel in ways that would threaten its security, such as withholding spare parts as you suggested earlier, he would be opening a conflict not just with Congress but with his own political party; most of the leaders of the Democratic Party are strong supporters of Israel. The only area in which Obama has room to move on this issue is in how much diplomatic support his administration will give Israel, but even here, if he were to go too far, his State Department would be called before Congressional committees and publicly berated because of his actions. Netanyahu understands US politics as well as any US politician and he knows how strong support for Israel is in Congress and as the mid term elections draw nearer, that support will grow even stronger.

Obama may be biased against Israel, but there is no reason to think he is a fanatic on this issue. The ceasefire may not serve all of the US's interests, but it does serve the interests of Obama and Clinton, especially if she decides to run in 2016. Notice that before Clinton arrived in Cairo, both Hamas and Israel continued to present demands they knew the other side would not agree to, but as soon as Clinton showed up with the magic checkbook, everyone compromised. Incredibly, this conflict between tiny Israel and even tinier Gaza is front page news around the world, and Obama/Clinton's success in quickly bringing about a ceasefire will earn them great respect in many other regions and will be a +++ for Democrats in the mid term elections.

I also have doubts about how long this ceasefire will hold. For one thing, none of the details about weapons smuggling or freer movement of goods and persons through the crossings have been defined and agreed to. Even supposing Hamas intends to keep to the ceasefire, there are bound to be disappointments in how it is implemented, and there are factions in Gaza that act independently from Hamas, so a nagging disappointment could easily lead one of these factions to fire off some rockets and with the upcoming Israeli elections, Netanyahu would have to respond if Hamas or Egypt did not take quick, effective actions to end the attacks. Also, terror attacks against Israel have long played a key role in the politics of the Palestinian Arabs - each rocket aimed at civilian population centers in Israel was a terrorist attack - and some will see the ceasefire as giving new validity to terrorism as an effective tool in dealing with Israel; one can imagine numerous scenarios in which as few terrorist attacks, even coming from the West Bank, could lead to Israelis responses that would escalate to a ground operation in Gaza.

For the present I will try to remain hopeful the ceasefire will hold, but I remain very disappointed that Netanyahu did not pursue a more decisive solution to terrorist attacks from Gaza as Sharon did to terrorist attacks coming from the West Bank in Defensive Shield.

We're on the same side here so I'll just say this, while most of the leaders of the Democrat party are pro-Israel, because it is politically correct to be so, the base of the Democratic Party is split on their support for Israel. Did you watch their convention? The Democrats in congress won’t be coming out much against Obama on this “pulling state dept. officials in front of congress”?….Please... The president makes foreign policy not congress, and Let me say this about Ariel Sharon he's the man who pulled out of Gaza and forced all the Jews out. Now look at it. The "West Bank" is not Gaza the two don't equate



Ariel Sharon's handy work...

Palestinians, carrying the green
Islamic flags of Hamas, celebrating the Israeli withdrawal
atop the now demolished synagogue of the Netzarim Settlement

Right-wing Israeli settlers and their supporters clash with Israeli police and security forces
during the August 2005 Gaza withdrawal, as seen here at the Neve Dekalim Settlement

 

[georgephillip]

The ceasefire won't hold because Jews will continue their policies of "creeping annexation" and "creeping transfer" until they control all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

What are you talking about, idiot??

The ceasefire was already being broken less than an hour after it started.

Stop lying.

Stop stealing land and water:

"...Ze’ev Jabotinsky’s concept of the ‘Iron Wall’: an approach that in essence calls for beating the Palestinians into submission. Jabotinsky understood that the Palestinians would resist the Zionists’ efforts to colonise their land and subjugate them in the process. Nonetheless, he maintained that the Zionists, and eventually Israel, could punish the Palestinians so severely that they would recognise that further resistance was futile."

What is Israel Really Up to in Gaza? » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Zionism is futile.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Back on topic.

The Palestinians came out ahead.

 

[Jroc]

The Root of Arab Rage

Arab humiliation seems to have become a mainstay since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. The Arab world can simply not get over their lost pride as a people who once ruled and represented the epitome of civilization, and now are relegated to Third World status. Israel and America represent for the Arab world the source of this humiliation – so the argument goes.

Many other speculations are offered to explain Arab rage and frenzy against Israel and the West.

Understanding the underlying causes for Arab sentiments is not academic; it is the only way to get to the bottom of the issues. Understanding their mentality is the true key to help provide us with a meaningful strategy. We can never devise a workable plan as long as we focus on the superficial causes, and do not understand the driving force of our adversary. Does the Arab world just want justice for the Palestinians? Equal rights (rights they do not have under any Arab ruler)? Some land to live peacefully? Or perhaps they want something more that they simply are not telling us?

I submit that the true reason and core root of Arab anger is religious and not political.

The Arab world’s opposition to Israel is not due to any Israeli actions, but rather to the very existence of the Land of Israel and Jewish control over the land. This control is a perpetual thorn in their side, and the root cause for their “shame” and humiliation.

Why? Because Muslims fundamentally believe that Israel’s existence – and Jewish control over Israel – in what they consider to be their ‘conquered land,’ is a desecration of their religious vision.

This is the reason why Muslims have always built mosques on the sacred land of Jews and Christians (e.g. the Temple Mount, Bethlehem) to demonstrate their absolute belief that Muslim control over these lands fulfills and realizes the Divine will.

This religious belief is the true cause for the rage of the Arab/Muslim world against Israel. It is not about human rights, Palestinian sovereignty, Arab dignity, oil, money, harems, or any other issue. No amount of land return, no concessions will satisfy them – other than the elimination of Jewish control in Israel.

As uncomfortable as it may be, we will never be able to resolve the issues until we realize that this is a religious war not a political one.

http://meaningfullife.com/oped/2012/11.23.12$VayeitzeiCOLON_The_Root_of_Arab_Rage.php

 

[Lipush]

The ceasefire won't hold because Jews will continue their policies of "creeping annexation" and "creeping transfer" until they control all the land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River.

What are you talking about, idiot??

The ceasefire was already being broken less than an hour after it started.

Stop lying.

Stop stealing land and water:

"...Ze’ev Jabotinsky’s concept of the ‘Iron Wall’: an approach that in essence calls for beating the Palestinians into submission. Jabotinsky understood that the Palestinians would resist the Zionists’ efforts to colonise their land and subjugate them in the process. Nonetheless, he maintained that the Zionists, and eventually Israel, could punish the Palestinians so severely that they would recognise that further resistance was futile."

What is Israel Really Up to in Gaza? » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Zionism is futile.

I come to the conclusion you say things out in the air everytime I point out that the Palestinians are breaking agreements. Yelling out slogans,? I can do that too.

Only proves you have no desire for truth OR justice, since you cannot obviously admit your beloved Palestinians were wrong.

You people are pathetic.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I don't get it. The Israeli hawks tell us they are sheer brave and ready for more war and chaos.

Yet when Hamas fires back they cry and whine.

 

[Lipush]

I don't get it. The Israeli hawks tell us they are sheer brave and ready for more war and chaos.

Yet when Hamas fires back they cry and whine.

Isn't that rich. You peopl shoot 300 rockets in 2 days, yet when we chase your leader down you start calling Egypt for help.

It is truely like a kindergarden, sometimes.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

I don't get it. The Israeli hawks tell us they are sheer brave and ready for more war and chaos.

Yet when Hamas fires back they cry and whine.

Isn't that rich. You peopl shoot 300 rockets in 2 days, yet when we chase your leader down you start calling Egypt for help.

It is truely like a kindergarden, sometimes.

Man, rev up that hasbara propaganda even more, you assassinated a figure during the ceasefire, and before that you killed about 8 Palestinians and wounded almost 50 during your attacks, in which you also broke the ceasefire on November 8.

Be honest once, for the love of God.

 

[BecauseIKnow]

How adorable, the Israeli psychotic killers are so scared of Egypt. The world is glad Egypt stopped Israel from further increasing their offensive against Gaza. And you're bragging about it as if you made the Palestinians beg Egypt.

You love violence, and we are calling for calm. Lets have calm, remove the blockade. And abide by the agreements.

 

[georgephillip]

What are you talking about, idiot??

The ceasefire was already being broken less than an hour after it started.

Stop lying.

Stop stealing land and water:

"...Ze’ev Jabotinsky’s concept of the ‘Iron Wall’: an approach that in essence calls for beating the Palestinians into submission. Jabotinsky understood that the Palestinians would resist the Zionists’ efforts to colonise their land and subjugate them in the process. Nonetheless, he maintained that the Zionists, and eventually Israel, could punish the Palestinians so severely that they would recognise that further resistance was futile."

What is Israel Really Up to in Gaza? » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Zionism is futile.

I come to the conclusion you say things out in the air everytime I point out that the Palestinians are breaking agreements. Yelling out slogans,? I can do that too.

Only proves you have no desire for truth OR justice, since you cannot obviously admit your beloved Palestinians were wrong.

You people are pathetic.

What do you think your Zionist "wolf" meant when he wrote: "Zionist colonisation must either stop, or else proceed regardless of the native population. Which means that it can proceed and develop only under the protection of a power that is independent of the native population – behind an iron wall, which the native population cannot breach."

The Iron Wall - Vladimir (Ze'ev) Jabotinsky - 1923

 

[JimH52]

Israel agreed to stop assasinating Hamas and to lessen restrictions in Gaza. That is fine. But if Hamas lobs more missles into Israel, it will be game on. Gaza may be turned into dust. So, Hamas won time. If they decide to abuse their chance, they may be totally wiped out.

 

[Sunni Man]

^^^^^^ Dream on............

 

[georgephillip]

Israel controls Gaza's airspace, coastal waters and borders (except Rafah) as well as the electrical and sewage infrasctructure. Israel controls how much food and fuel and other supplies enter into and exit from Gaza. If Israel is not willing to lift their "effective control" of 1.7 human beings, Gazans have a human right to resist.

BTW, if the Jewish State were to "wipe out" Gaza, it would vanish from the page of time.

 

[docmauser1]

Israel controls Gaza's airspace, coastal waters and borders (except Rafah) as well as the electrical and sewage infrasctructure.

Israel should teach palistanians independence by flipping the power off, of course.

 

[georgephillip]

Good thinking, drivel.
Then the world can FLUSH the Jewish State back to Russia:

" There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs. Not now, nor in the prospective future. I say this with such conviction, not because I want to hurt the moderate Zionists. I do not believe that they will be hurt. Except for those who were born blind, they realised long ago that it is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting 'Palestine' from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority."

The Iron Wall - Vladimir (Ze'ev) Jabotinsky - 1923

 

[docmauser1]

Good thinking, drivel. Then the world can FLUSH the Jewish State back to Russia

Enlightened reps of enlightened countries should lead by example, so, when are we vacatin' injuns' lands?

 

[ima]

Good thinking, drivel. Then the world can FLUSH the Jewish State back to Russia

Enlightened reps of enlightened countries should lead by example, so, when are we vacatin' injuns' lands?

Is doc admitting that our taking land in North America is the same as what's happening in Palestine? Because we at least admit to screwing the indians.

 

[docmauser1]

Is doc admitting that our taking land in North America is the same as what's happening in Palestine?

Nah. Major illegal arab immigrant settlers from the hood don't qualify for "indians", of course.

Because we at least admit to screwing the indians.

Yes-yes, but palistanians don't admit to screwing everybody. Truly so.