Modern conservatives sympathizing with The Confederacy... Is this a thing now?

[there4eyeM]

Well, there has certainly been no progress in this thread!

 

[rdean]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

I know right? Republicans on this board insist Lincoln was a Republican "Just Like Them". They insist there is no connection between the confederacy and Republicans. They are in such denial, they refuse to believe that conservatives fled the Democratic Party in the middle 60's because blacks joined up and the conservatives became the GOP.

 

[rdean]

So, because you saw a couple people say something you are wondering if that's how all "conservatives" think. well just wow

the not so Modern liberal, Bill Maher called a Republican woman candidate a cxxt. so I assume that is that how all liberals think of women in this country

I don't know why you would think that. He's a comic. Not all liberals are comedians. He's not black, a feminist, a Christian, Hispanic, a conservative, a scientists, or a college professor.
But he is white, just like 90% of the Republican Party.

 

[Correll]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

I know right? Republicans on this board insist Lincoln was a Republican "Just Like Them". They insist there is no connection between the confederacy and Republicans. They are in such denial, they refuse to believe that conservatives fled the Democratic Party in the middle 60's because blacks joined up and the conservatives became the GOP.

The GOP took the SOuth when the South finally grew a decent middle class that stopped voting for the dems.

 

[thanatos144]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

I know right? Republicans on this board insist Lincoln was a Republican "Just Like Them". They insist there is no connection between the confederacy and Republicans. They are in such denial, they refuse to believe that conservatives fled the Democratic Party in the middle 60's because blacks joined up and the conservatives became the GOP.

Good lord you are as stupid as Bri.....Why dont you educate yourself dumb ass. Democrats are the party of racists like Gore , Byrd, Obama and Kennedy....

 

[danielpalos]

Well, there has certainly been no progress in this thread!

should we raise a confederate national civil flag and try to find a cracker to manipulate to "harass a Judge" for his Cause?

 

[-S-]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

I know right? Republicans on this board insist Lincoln was a Republican "Just Like Them". They insist there is no connection between the confederacy and Republicans. They are in such denial, they refuse to believe that conservatives fled the Democratic Party in the middle 60's because blacks joined up and the conservatives became the GOP.

Good lord you are as stupid as Bri.....Why dont you educate yourself dumb ass. Democrats are the party of racists like Gore , Byrd, Obama and Kennedy....

There is a correlation based on empirical evidence.

The South is socially conservative, and has always subscribed to those beliefs.

The South was a Democratic stronghold consistently, all the way until a slow switch started throughout the 60s-80s.

African American voters were Republican all the way until a switch started in the 60s-80s.

The South is now a HUGE Republican stronghold, yet still consider themselves socially conservative.

The African American vote is now a HUGE Democratic stronghold.

If neither group's political ideologies changed, but their party identification did, then it's easy to see how the parties have evolved to be mirrors of what they once were on certain types of issues and causes.



It's not that difficult of a logic map to string together. It makes sense if you put your biases aside and allow yourself to see fact.


If you have a conflicting view point, please explain it in clear, fact based reasoning.

 

[thanatos144]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

I know right? Republicans on this board insist Lincoln was a Republican "Just Like Them". They insist there is no connection between the confederacy and Republicans. They are in such denial, they refuse to believe that conservatives fled the Democratic Party in the middle 60's because blacks joined up and the conservatives became the GOP.

Good lord you are as stupid as Bri.....Why dont you educate yourself dumb ass. Democrats are the party of racists like Gore , Byrd, Obama and Kennedy....

There is a correlation based on empirical evidence.

The South is socially conservative, and has always subscribed to those beliefs.

The South was a Democratic stronghold consistently, all the way until a slow switch started throughout the 60s-80s.

African American voters were Republican all the way until a switch started in the 60s-80s.

The South is now a HUGE Republican stronghold, yet still consider themselves socially conservative.

The African American vote is now a HUGE Democratic stronghold.

If neither group's political ideologies changed, but their party identification did, then it's easy to see how the parties have evolved to be mirrors of what they once were on certain types of issues and causes.



It's not that difficult of a logic map to string together. It makes sense if you put your biases aside and allow yourself to see fact.


If you have a conflicting view point, please explain it in clear, fact based reasoning.

You seem to be mistaken the people of the south with the elitist fucks that ran it.....The politics and politicians haven't changed the people in those states grew up and voted for what they really believed in. God country and liberty. The more a person is educated with the truth the more likely they will vote conservative. On the same note the more spoiled a person is they will vote liberal or libertarian.

 

[there4eyeM]

[/QUOTE]
You seem to be mistaken the people of the south with the elitist fucks that ran it.....The politics and politicians haven't changed the people in those states grew up and voted for what they really believed in. God country and liberty. The more a person is educated with the truth the more likely they will vote conservative. On the same note the more spoiled a person is they will vote liberal or libertarian.[/QUOTE]

T.
You have seen that on this thread we pretty much supported the same argument. Otherwise, your posts I've seen tell me we would have a lot of defining to do to have a comfortable conversation face to face.
Your above quotation agrees to much of my thoughts on the matter you address. I do not see the conservative position as you do. I think this is fundamentally because you have more or less had to adapt to the current dichotomous dialog with which we are afflicted.
For example, there are some very solid conservative arguments for doing some things that are clearly what the current political speech rules would make us describe as 'liberal'. They are in the interest of things, institutions and philosophies we would like to conserve.
In this thread, we have seen posters who for some reason have chosen a position to maintain at any cost at the sacrifice of resort to logic and orderly debate.
Personally, I see the Union as having been conceived of as inviolable. Obviously, any and all human institutions and ideologies are subject to human vicissitudes. One side confronted the situation in a way that made armed resolution of the question necessary. The two concepts went head to head in war, and one lost. Both lost a lot, though, and the American concept of freedom did, too.
It isn't that 'might makes right', it is really a question of what rights are. If we all have the right to be free, by what right did the Bible acknowledge slavery as acceptable? This slams into the question of the source of rights.
Words are representatives of ideas, objects, aspirations. They have exactly the meaning we give them. We are where those words come from.
In my view of things, people practicing a system that says 'people can own people' are only there to be converted or subverted. Controlling people is inhuman.
What is very human is making intelligent decisions that work, and doing it in a way where the maximum of the population is satisfied with the process. I have great suspicions of democracy and republican government. It is clear that the brightest and clearest thinking among us should run things. But, humans being humans, identifying who these might be and then entrusting 'them' with power doesn't seem like an easy process, either. Churchill had a way with words, and his reflections on forms of government are wise.
Those posters with whom we have exchanged will not be changed by a virtual contact on the Internet. They are not correct, but the question is moot for all purposes. It is settled. Did the Allies have the right to ex post facto trials of heinous people after WWII? Did what these heinous people did worse than what their enemies did, especially J.Stalin? It is done now and the precedent is there. The hypocrisy is also there that the same standards have not been sustained internationally since those trials.
Our words, ideas and ideologies can, should and will evolve. What we should always be sure of is living in the universe in harmony with harmony.

 

[-S-]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

I know right? Republicans on this board insist Lincoln was a Republican "Just Like Them". They insist there is no connection between the confederacy and Republicans. They are in such denial, they refuse to believe that conservatives fled the Democratic Party in the middle 60's because blacks joined up and the conservatives became the GOP.

Good lord you are as stupid as Bri.....Why dont you educate yourself dumb ass. Democrats are the party of racists like Gore , Byrd, Obama and Kennedy....

There is a correlation based on empirical evidence.

The South is socially conservative, and has always subscribed to those beliefs.

The South was a Democratic stronghold consistently, all the way until a slow switch started throughout the 60s-80s.

African American voters were Republican all the way until a switch started in the 60s-80s.

The South is now a HUGE Republican stronghold, yet still consider themselves socially conservative.

The African American vote is now a HUGE Democratic stronghold.

If neither group's political ideologies changed, but their party identification did, then it's easy to see how the parties have evolved to be mirrors of what they once were on certain types of issues and causes.



It's not that difficult of a logic map to string together. It makes sense if you put your biases aside and allow yourself to see fact.


If you have a conflicting view point, please explain it in clear, fact based reasoning.

You seem to be mistaken the people of the south with the elitist fucks that ran it.....The politics and politicians haven't changed the people in those states grew up and voted for what they really believed in. God country and liberty. The more a person is educated with the truth the more likely they will vote conservative. On the same note the more spoiled a person is they will vote liberal or libertarian.

That doesn't quite make sense of the situation, Than.

To suggest that the people in the south eventually "grew up and voted for what they really believed in" suggests that their political views changed.

No evidence suggests that, considering the majority of the south has always identified themselves as socially conservative, both while being a Democratic stronghold and while being a Republican stronghold.

Factually speaking, they were ALWAYS socially conservative. No change in social political views can be seen in any recorded data.

What are you basing this claim on?

Or is it just your opinion or something?