Moderate Muslims are the problem

[Quantum Windbag]

A well thought out and well written argument about why Islam does not need more moderate Muslims.

"Moderate" Muslims are part of the problem. As Martin Luther King Jr. taught many white Americans, in times of moral crisis, moderation cements the status quo. Today, what Islam needs is not more "moderates" but more self-conscious "reformists." It is reformists who will bring to my faith the debate, dissent and reinterpretation that have carried Judaism and Christianity into the modern world.

Moderate Muslims, he observes, are so consumed with Western imperialism that they have distracted themselves from dealing with the imperialists inside Islam—Muslims who dominate, censor, injure and murder fellow Muslims. Bin Laden and his disciples epitomize this crowd. But you do not have to be murderous to be an obstacle to reform. I will never forget the Muslim man in New Jersey who flaunted his moderate credentials by leading an interfaith dialogue group, yet who, behind closed doors, revealed a purist's insularity. On the letterhead of his interfaith initiative, he presented me with a list of phrases and paragraphs to be banned from my 2004 book, "The Trouble with Islam Today." "You want my publishers to edit out these thoughts?" I asked, incredulously.
"Oh, yes," he confirmed. "Otherwise, you're like a fascist."

My favorite quote, and what I keep trying to tell all the people that defend Islam unconditionally.

t is time for those who love liberal democracy to join hands with Islam's reformists. Here is a clue to who's who: Moderate Muslims denounce violence committed in the name of Islam but insist that religion has nothing to do with it; reformist Muslims, by contrast, not only deplore Islamist violence but admit that our religion is used to incite it.

Islam Needs Reformists, Not 'Moderates' - WSJ.com


I fully expect the knee jerk Left to not only accuse me of Islamaphobia, but to ignore the fact that the guy who wrote this is a Muslim. This is the kind of Muslim I support, not the extremists or the moderates. Hopefully a few people will read this and think for themselves.

 

[Jack Fate]

What's a "moderate muslim"? Is that the kind of muslim who doesn't blow anyone up but beats his wife according to the Koran?

 

[Gunny]

A well thought out and well written argument about why Islam does not need more moderate Muslims.

"Moderate" Muslims are part of the problem. As Martin Luther King Jr. taught many white Americans, in times of moral crisis, moderation cements the status quo. Today, what Islam needs is not more "moderates" but more self-conscious "reformists." It is reformists who will bring to my faith the debate, dissent and reinterpretation that have carried Judaism and Christianity into the modern world.

Moderate Muslims, he observes, are so consumed with Western imperialism that they have distracted themselves from dealing with the imperialists inside Islam—Muslims who dominate, censor, injure and murder fellow Muslims. Bin Laden and his disciples epitomize this crowd. But you do not have to be murderous to be an obstacle to reform. I will never forget the Muslim man in New Jersey who flaunted his moderate credentials by leading an interfaith dialogue group, yet who, behind closed doors, revealed a purist's insularity. On the letterhead of his interfaith initiative, he presented me with a list of phrases and paragraphs to be banned from my 2004 book, "The Trouble with Islam Today." "You want my publishers to edit out these thoughts?" I asked, incredulously.
"Oh, yes," he confirmed. "Otherwise, you're like a fascist."

My favorite quote, and what I keep trying to tell all the people that defend Islam unconditionally.

t is time for those who love liberal democracy to join hands with Islam's reformists. Here is a clue to who's who: Moderate Muslims denounce violence committed in the name of Islam but insist that religion has nothing to do with it; reformist Muslims, by contrast, not only deplore Islamist violence but admit that our religion is used to incite it.

Islam Needs Reformists, Not 'Moderates' - WSJ.com


I fully expect the knee jerk Left to not only accuse me of Islamaphobia, but to ignore the fact that the guy who wrote this is a Muslim. This is the kind of Muslim I support, not the extremists or the moderates. Hopefully a few people will read this and think for themselves.

A "moderate muslim" is a contradiction in terms.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Moderate Muslims are the problem

The error you and the cited author make is assuming Muslims are somehow responsible for the actions of criminals who happen to be Muslim; it’s as idiotic as saying Christians are somehow responsible for Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nichols, or neo-Nazis, the KKK, or militia groups.

Again: all terrorists are criminals – period; their religion is incidental and irrelevant.

 

[Salt Jones]

A well thought out and well written argument about why Islam does not need more moderate Muslims.

"Moderate" Muslims are part of the problem. As Martin Luther King Jr. taught many white Americans, in times of moral crisis, moderation cements the status quo. Today, what Islam needs is not more "moderates" but more self-conscious "reformists." It is reformists who will bring to my faith the debate, dissent and reinterpretation that have carried Judaism and Christianity into the modern world.

My favorite quote, and what I keep trying to tell all the people that defend Islam unconditionally.

t is time for those who love liberal democracy to join hands with Islam's reformists. Here is a clue to who's who: Moderate Muslims denounce violence committed in the name of Islam but insist that religion has nothing to do with it; reformist Muslims, by contrast, not only deplore Islamist violence but admit that our religion is used to incite it.

Islam Needs Reformists, Not 'Moderates' - WSJ.com


I fully expect the knee jerk Left to not only accuse me of Islamaphobia, but to ignore the fact that the guy who wrote this is a Muslim. This is the kind of Muslim I support, not the extremists or the moderates. Hopefully a few people will read this and think for themselves.

A "moderate muslim" is a contradiction in terms.

Really?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Moderate Muslims are the problem

The error you and the cited author make is assuming Muslims are somehow responsible for the actions of criminals who happen to be Muslim; it’s as idiotic as saying Christians are somehow responsible for Timothy McVeigh or Terry Nichols, or neo-Nazis, the KKK, or militia groups.

Again: all terrorists are criminals – period; their religion is incidental and irrelevant.

Just as I thought.

The author happens to be an imam. Are you saying he is so ignorant of Islam that he does not understand the difference? Did you even consider for a millisecond the possibility that you might not know what you are talking about?

I can tolerate a lot of idiocy, but willful ignorance is one thing I will never tolerate.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

In addition to being a rhetorical fallacy, the notion that members of a given religious group are responsible for the actions of a criminal minority is repugnant to our Constitutional tenet of religious tolerance and judicial doctrine of individual responsibility.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In addition to being a rhetorical fallacy, the notion that members of a given religious group are responsible for the actions of a criminal minority is repugnant to our Constitutional tenet of religious tolerance and judicial doctrine of individual responsibility.

So, again, you know more about Islam than a guy that actually teaches it.

Tell you what, go back and actually read the article, consider the points, and remember that Martin Luther King actually made the exact same point this guy is making. There are times in life when being a moderate will not work, because we are responsible for the actions of others if we do not prevent them. You cannot sit by and watch evil, not speak up, and then argue that you wanted to stop it.

 

[Sunni Man]

The author of the article Irshad Manji is not an Imam.

Irshad Manji is a woman.

In fact she is a radical feminist and an open lesbian.

Who walks around with a short dyke style haircut.

No Muslims pay any attention to her and her idiotic rants and nonsense.

Unfortunately gullible people in the west. Listen to her and buy her books.

And think that she is some kind of spokesman in the Islamic community.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Don’t be such a fanatic!
What is the ruling on a person who, when he is advised with regard to an action which goes against sharee’ah, immediately says, “Don’t be such a fanatic and so extreme; be moderate.” We hope you can explain what moderation is.

Praise be to Allaah.

Whoever is advised concerning something that is haraam according to sharee’ah, so that he can avoid it or give it up, or is told of an obligation so that he can fulfil it, then he says something like this, is doing wrong.

What he should do, if he is advised, is to thank the person who has offered the advice, then he should look at himself and if the advice was justified, then he should avoid the haraam thing and do what is obligatory. As far as his comment “you are a fanatic” is concerned, fanaticism, laxity and moderation are all to be understood in reference to sharee’ah. Whatever is in accordance with sharee’ah is moderate; whatever exceeds that is extreme and whatever falls short of that is laxity.
The standard in all cases is sharee’ah and the meaning of moderation is that which is in accordance with the sharee’ah. Whatever is in accordance with sharee’ah is moderate.

Islam Question and Answer - Don

 

[Contumacious]

What's a "moderate muslim"? Is that the kind of muslim who doesn't blow anyone up but beats his wife according to the Koran?

Nope.

A moderate Muslim is one who sees that his people are being slaughtered in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, the AfPak region and chooses not to get involved or retaliate.

.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The author of the article Irshad Manji is not an Imam.

Irshad Manji is a woman.

In fact she is a radical feminist and an open lesbian.

Who walks around with a short dyke style haircut.

No Muslims pay any attention to her and her idiotic rants and nonsense.

Unfortunately gullible people in the west. Listen to her and buy her books.

And think that she is some kind of spokesman in the Islamic community.

She is one end of the jihad spectrum.
Same goals different tactic.
A muslims who thinks she can get the camels nose under the tent by redefining Islam to suit her life style in the end just another jihadist.

 

[JBeukema]

What Islam- and all other dogma- needs is to be wiped out.

So long as men are controlled by dogma, Man cannot progress.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Science-Liberty-Democracy-Reason-Nature/dp/0060781505]Amazon.com: The Science of Liberty: Democracy, Reason, and the Laws of Nature (9780060781507): Timothy Ferris: Books[/ame]

 

[LilOlLady]

A well thought out and well written argument about why Islam does not need more moderate Muslims.

"Moderate" Muslims are part of the problem. As Martin Luther King Jr. taught many white Americans, in times of moral crisis, moderation cements the status quo. Today, what Islam needs is not more "moderates" but more self-conscious "reformists." It is reformists who will bring to my faith the debate, dissent and reinterpretation that have carried Judaism and Christianity into the modern world.

Moderate Muslims, he observes, are so consumed with Western imperialism that they have distracted themselves from dealing with the imperialists inside Islam—Muslims who dominate, censor, injure and murder fellow Muslims. Bin Laden and his disciples epitomize this crowd. But you do not have to be murderous to be an obstacle to reform. I will never forget the Muslim man in New Jersey who flaunted his moderate credentials by leading an interfaith dialogue group, yet who, behind closed doors, revealed a purist's insularity. On the letterhead of his interfaith initiative, he presented me with a list of phrases and paragraphs to be banned from my 2004 book, "The Trouble with Islam Today." "You want my publishers to edit out these thoughts?" I asked, incredulously.
"Oh, yes," he confirmed. "Otherwise, you're like a fascist."

My favorite quote, and what I keep trying to tell all the people that defend Islam unconditionally.

t is time for those who love liberal democracy to join hands with Islam's reformists. Here is a clue to who's who: Moderate Muslims denounce violence committed in the name of Islam but insist that religion has nothing to do with it; reformist Muslims, by contrast, not only deplore Islamist violence but admit that our religion is used to incite it.

Islam Needs Reformists, Not 'Moderates' - WSJ.com


I fully expect the knee jerk Left to not only accuse me of Islamaphobia, but to ignore the fact that the guy who wrote this is a Muslim. This is the kind of Muslim I support, not the extremists or the moderates. Hopefully a few people will read this and think for themselves.

Islam has nothing to do with radical Muslim's beliefs any more than Christianity has nothing to do with radical Christian Rev Phelps. Radical christians do all kinds of atrocities in the name of religion and is false beliefs and doctrine. Radical Muslims had twisted the Koran to excuse their radical behavior same as radical christians.

 

[bripat9643]

In addition to being a rhetorical fallacy, the notion that members of a given religious group are responsible for the actions of a criminal minority is repugnant to our Constitutional tenet of religious tolerance and judicial doctrine of individual responsibility.

So Nazis and the KKK are really nice people. It was just a few bad apples who made all the trouble, right?

 

[JBeukema]

In addition to being a rhetorical fallacy, the notion that members of a given religious group are responsible for the actions of a criminal minority is repugnant to our Constitutional tenet of religious tolerance and judicial doctrine of individual responsibility.

So Nazis and the KKK are really nice people. It was just a few bad apples who made all the trouble, right?

You know both of those groups consider themselves Christians, right?

So you just said all Christians are NAZIs and Klansmen


And just made Clayton's point.


Ya fuckin' retard

 

[bripat9643]

The author of the article Irshad Manji is not an Imam.

Irshad Manji is a woman.

In fact she is a radical feminist and an open lesbian.

Who walks around with a short dyke style haircut.

No Muslims pay any attention to her and her idiotic rants and nonsense.

Unfortunately gullible people in the west. Listen to her and buy her books.

And think that she is some kind of spokesman in the Islamic community.

No one thinks she is a spokesman for the Islamic community anymore than they believe Martin Luther King was a spokesman for the KKK.

 

[Contumacious]

In addition to being a rhetorical fallacy, the notion that members of a given religious group are responsible for the actions of a criminal minority is repugnant to our Constitutional tenet of religious tolerance and judicial doctrine of individual responsibility.

So Nazis and the KKK are really nice people. It was just a few bad apples who made all the trouble, right?

Let's conduct an experiment.

Have the US dissolve the Jewish State and return Palestine to its lawful owners, get the fuck out of Iraq and the AFPak region. Apologize for the transgressions, Pay reparations. Then observe.

.

 

[LilOlLady]

What's a "moderate muslim"? Is that the kind of muslim who doesn't blow anyone up but beats his wife according to the Koran?

Koran do not teach Muslims to beat their wives. According to the bible christians can do all kinds of atrocities. Kills gays and stone adulteries.etc

Old Testament Stoning to Death Punishments.
Old Testament Stoning to Death Punishments. « Qur'an – Bible.

Stephen's Prayer at His Stoning
While Being Stoned to Death, Stephen Intercedes for Those Throwing the Stones
Stephen's Prayer at His Stoning - Bible Prayer

Stoning in the Bible
In fact, the Bible doesn't just call for stoning on adultery, but calls for stoning on a whole range of issues! Here are the Biblical passages on stoning:
Bible Stoning

 

[bripat9643]

You know both of those groups consider themselves Christians, right?

So you just said all Christians are NAZIs and Klansmen

I said nothing of the sort.

And just made Clayton's point.


Ya fuckin' retard

You are obviously too stupid to get my point.

You aren't worth debating because you're a retard.