modemocrat

[eflatminor]

1) We do agree on this point. However, I'm sure we disagree on how to go about it. For the record, I am in favour of raising wages before we raise taxes on the working class.

2) Again, no. You are ignoring history. After 1983 tax receipts dropped to below 19% and did not rise above that level until 1997! In fact, in 1981, receipts were 19.6% and in 1984 they were 17.3%. That's a substantial drop that you are choosing to ignore. Why is that? Oh right, because ...

3) You are arbitrarily picking a range. You've decided to use 15%-20%, even though since WWII, there are only a couple instances of levels as low as 15% or as high as 20%. If you were being honest, which you aren't, you would use the average and 1 standard deviation, which would get you a range of 16.4%-19% (17.7% being the average). Using that range, you would see we are currently way outside the norm.

As for your hero Art Laffer, you know he drew his famous curve on a napkin as a joke, right? It was never meant to be taken seriously. But, since you are taking it seriously, the least you could do is be honest with yourself. The Laffer Curve is a CURVE. Which means on the left side as tax rates drop so do tax revenue levels. That's what Laffer was saying and that's what you are choosing to ignore.

Whether you like it or not, we are on the left side of the Laffer Curve.

edit: links to sources

Historical Federal Receipt and Outlay Summary

Political Calculations: Is Hauser's Law Still Valid?

Raising wages? And who does that? Government or the guys that actually own the business?

That is not a "substantial drop"! It is a fluctuation that cannot be attributed to any one specific tax change...and there were changes in rates both up and down. You've not supported your point at all. Bottom line, we took less in taxes and revenues stay about the same...which has been the case for 60 years now when rates go down or up.

Pick whatever range you want. You have no evidence that marginal rate changes have a direct correlation to changes in revenue. Sorry, you just don't.

I understand the Laffer curve and yes, we are on the left side of that curve, exactly as Laffer would have predicted in an economic downturn.

You can bitch all you want about tax rates. There are a hell of a lot of us that are done with the idea of tweaking rates for the benefit of some and the detriment of others. We want a flat, fair and wide base and most importantly, for the government to live within it's means. Deal with it at the ballot box.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

17.7% has been the average since WWII. One standard deviation below that is 16.4%. TWO standard deviations below that is 15.1% And we are even below that! Yet, you think this is normal and fine? That this is within the acceptable range? A range you just made up?

Apparently someone flunked his college stats class.

When we were over by two standard deviations, Bush went on TV crying over how the government was taking in too much money and had to give it back. Now we're on the other side the same way ... and you don't care. You choose to ignore it like every other "conservative". Way to go.

You don't understand the Laffer Curve. It doesn't change based on the strength of the economy.

Do some reading. Your ignorance is showing.

I have two advanced degrees. One in Finance, one in Economics. But I'm sure you know more about this than me...and Laffer!

Nice dodge on who will raise wages.

What your central planning mentality cannot grasp is that most of America aren't concern about squeezing every possible cent out of productive citizens. We have PLENTY of revenue to run the government, just not the meddling, nanny state you envision. So while you whine about tax rates, the rest of us know there is no fucking way we can tax our way through the current plans for increased spending, much less get to the overwhelming debt we face. A deviation one way or the other isn't going to make a damn bit of difference.

Pathetic lefties that are just SURE they have magic beans and everything will be great if we just bow to your will. We're tired of it.