Mission Accomplished Redux

Discussion in 'Iraq' started by manifold, Aug 5, 2008.

  1. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Bush's opening remarks from the now infamous speech:

    "Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."


    At the time this speech was delivered (May 1, 2003), I was still a pretty vocal defender and supporter of GWB and the war. Also, being a sane, rational and literate person, I interpretted this powerful and resonating opening statement to mean that the worst was behind us and I was thrilled. Obviously that wasn't the case. In fact, it was just the opposite. The worst was yet to come.

    The part that really cracks me up though, is how the Bush apologists out there are STILL trying to convince me that I'm the idiot for interpretting the statement literally and taking GWB (their guy) at his word. Talk about irony eh? Even funnier is how the arguments advanced by the Bush ball-washers are generally flimsy, semantic based mental gymnastics that rival Clinton's famous definition of "is" defense.

    But I'll give you one more chance. Please explain if you can, the logic behind the suggestion that interpretting the phrase "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended" to mean that the worst is behind us, makes one an idiot?

    I fully accept the notion that I was an idiot to believe him of course. :D



    ___________________
    And the sandcastle virtues are all swept away,
    in the tidal destruction, the moral melee – Gerald Bostock
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2008
  2. Charles_Main
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    Charles_Main AR15 Owner

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    I have heard it argued that major combat operations means Conventional forces against conventional forces. Not sure I agree with that, but I think it is the best argument in defense of the comment, weak as it is.
     
  3. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Even if that's true, it's still quite reasonable and probable to assume that MOST people, especially the majority with no military experience, would interpret the statement as I did.
     
  4. Ravi
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    Ravi Diamond Member

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    I'd like to know what the mission IS.
     
  5. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    Major Combat operations were over, we had finished the Invasion phase and moved into the pacification and rebuilding phase. Learn some military terms and what they mean and you won't look like such idiots to those of us with some military back ground.

    As for the oft cited " Iraq has been longer than WW2" claim, bullshit. The fighting to take the country lasted just a few weeks. Now unless I get to count the 9 years we spent in Japan occupying that country with A HELL of a lot of troops, as well as Germany, guess what? You don't get to compare the two.

    We did not anticipate the insurgency or terrorist attacks. They had never been a big problem in the pass in situations like this and so we miss planned for the after math. Further we spent 3 years fighting the problem the wrong way. But as is usual, if you do not cut and run, you figure out what has to be done and get it done. In fact we solved this much faster then historically such operations last. 5 years as opposed to 9 or more.

    Further we created a stable Government in the process and have trained its police and military so that they believe they can take over by next year. Very impressive indeed.

    And our losses were minor. We have a 1000 deaths a year in peace time due to TRAINING accidents. In 5 years we have had just over 4000 die.

    You non military turds need to get a clue, try the library, it has books that you can actually read about what you keep talking about with ignorance.
     
  6. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Unlike you, I don't fear being thought an idiot.

    Regardless, wouldn't it be a lot easier if when the president makes a speech to the entire country, understanding what he means doesn't require that all 300 million of us be familiar with military terms? That seems just a wee bit unreasonable don't you think?
     
  7. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    No, you are being ignorant is all, but thanks for playing. He stated and was right, MAJOR military operations were over.
     
  8. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Agree and disagree. I am ignorant of much, but that is not all.


    You're very welcome.


    I can't argue with this either, now that my ignorance is somewhat abated.


    Congratulations. You post not one thing I can dispute. But you still have not acknowledged my position. I understood his statement at the time to mean the worst was behind us and even more, that quite likely a reduction in deployed military assets was on the horizon. In hindsight, I'm now convinced that I took his message exactly the way he hoped I, and many others, would. And here I sit, over 5 years later being told that isn't really what he meant. He really meant the worst is yet to come. All I can say to that is well...I may be dumb, but I ain't stupid. :cool:
     
  9. RetiredGySgt
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    RetiredGySgt Platinum Member

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    He did hope the worst was behind us and he did hope to remove troops as soon as possible, which has nothing to do with what his comments said. Major military operations were over. All that was left was pacification and rebuilding. The war consisted of 3 or 4 major military units ( Divisions) Manauvering with Divisional assest and air and naval support. After that the biggest operation was what? A brigade, mostly just battalion operations.

    Here let me help you, a Division has 16 to 23 thousand men in it. Plus all added support from other sources. A brigade has maybe 4000 men in it, usually around 3000 and a battalion has around 1000. Major Operations ceased when Bush said they did.
     
  10. manifold
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    manifold Diamond Member

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    Thanks.

    At the end of the day I know when I've been played for a fool. On the plus side however, common to all such instances is this: I learned from it and have never forgotten. :neutral:
     

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