Minority Teacher Recruitment & Urban Ed.

[CitizenPained]

Since my other thread got de-railed , I figured I'd start a new one (sorry) instead of staying on topic.

This section here caught me off guard:

A Question of Quality

The relative lack of men in the teaching profession does not draw a lot of concern, but several experts believe more minority teachers are needed, including in mostly white districts.

I've seen this a lot: Minority teachers are good for black & Latino students (never Asian or anything else, apparently...?) because they can 'relate' and have 'good role models'. Shennanigains. Any good teacher will be a good teacher regardless. I really wish districts would focus more on providing equal education services across neigborhoods (aka reducing segregation) than this stuff.

I think it's dangerous because I also hear the sentiment that minority teachers are also good for white students because it exposes them to diversity and good black role models. It helps to break stereotypes. And more male teachers are needed as well.

I reject the idea that one's skin color or ethnic background is necessary to be the best role model. I think that if teachers are respectful and aware of different cultures, they'll produce the best classroom results.

I've seen longtime black teachers that were amazing - teachers I want to be like. I've seen freshly minted black teachers that sucked. Same goes for white. I saw a Latino girl who was bilingual keep her job for years despite the fact she let the kids cheat on tests and taught in Spanish (against the rules).

Why are we trying to segregate teachers like this?

Districts that want to aggressively recruit minority teachers have a small pool to choose from.

It's a problem that recruiters in several white-collar professions face because of the relatively low percentage of black students who get degrees from four-year colleges and universities.

White Teachers Sue Philly For Discrimination

Their lawsuits say that a former principal had them read an article that said “white teachers do not have the ability to teach African-American students.”

The teachers also allege that the principal, Charles Ray III, and others undermined their work by reprimanding them, randomly changing their room assignments and letting black teachers ignore rules that their white counterparts had to follow. Ray also retaliated when they filed union grievances, they said.

Here's the thing. I think that if we want our teaching staff to be more diverse, we have to give quality education in urban schools. Then the application pool will be more diverse. Sorry, but white/female/non-minority teachers are not the problem here.

The disadvantages of hiring only young, white, female teachers go beyond race, said Martin Haberman, a distinguished professor of education at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee.

He contended that, particularly in urban areas, school officials should seek out older, second-career teachers of varied races and both genders whose life experiences make them better able to manage a classroom and to make a more mature commitment to teaching.

I don't want this to be about affirmative action. I'm talking about education here.

Texas in need of more minority teachers

"The research shows that if you can match the ethnicity and race of teachers and students, teachers tend to be more effective," said Ed Fuller, associate director of the University Council for Educational Administration at the University of Texas at Austin. "It's important for role modeling and pushing those students to go to college. Of course, you want to make sure teachers are well-qualified and not just thrown into a classroom because of race or ethnicity."

A Harvard University Kennedy School of Government study published in 2004 concluded that white and black students in Tennessee did better on state tests with teachers of their own race.

The findings indicated that recruiting more minority teachers could generate important gains among minority students.

So why don't we just teach any teacher to be respective of cultural differences? I mean, the race gap in Texas schools is much smaller than most areas, but they're still aggressively recruiting minority teachers.

Here's the thing. White teachers are probably more likely to discipline harder and not understand their minority students. It ends up being a language thing, honestly. If you go into a classroom and you tell the kids they have bad English and they're lazy fucks who are lucky to have you as a teacher, of course they won't do as well. (And yeah. That happens with white teachers.)

I'm female. I'm white. I was raised in Iowa. Are you seriously telling me I'm going to deliver a subtractive education to my students by default? Because that hasn't been the case thus far. I know that in my neighborhood, the most interaction the kids will have with white people is a) bosses and b) their teachers.

Or am I not an asset to a district that has mostly white students if I'm white, because now I'm not exposing them to 'diversity'? Since when are minority folk supposed to be a god damned anthropology exhibit?

...thoughts? Am I the only one who sees this as degrading to everyone involved? The race wars are alive and well in urban ed, particularly amongst black and Spanish-speaking Latinos. (Well, here anyway.)

This is not helping.

I also hate the word 'minority'.
And I'm very sorry, my dear male teachers, but so many of you are so damned lazy.

 

[Tank]

How embarassing for black and Hispanic people.

Could it be possible that the different races also have different abilities when it comes to educating and being educated?

What are the school systems like in the countries of blacks and Hispanics, that might be a clue.

If these differences between the races is natural, we will have to change laws and standards to compensate for this natural discrepancy.

 

[Patrick2]

Here's the thing. I think that if we want our teaching staff to be more diverse, we have to give quality education in urban schools. Then the application pool will be more diverse. Sorry, but white/female/non-minority teachers are not the problem here.

Why do you think that? Libs are always telling us race doesn't matter, but plenty of what they advocate shows that to them race matters.

 

[CitizenPained]

There is no difference in the teaching ability of white v. black teachers. That is absurd.

Since this is going to turn into a racist shitfest, nevermind. I was hoping some non-white people would chime in.

 

[editec]

Pretty hard to recruit "minority teachers" that don't exist, isn't it?

I'm informed that about 4.6 million Black American hold a BA/BS in any field. How many of them are educators? I can't find any data one way or the other.

At any rate here's a thumbnail of the breakdown K-12 positions in the USA

TOTAL PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS: 3,178,142

Elementary: 1,688,240
Secondary: 1,258,069
Unclassified: 231,833
(Digest 2009, Chapter 2, Table 65)
​

TOTAL CHARTER SCHOOL TEACHERS: 42,100
(Schools and Staffing Survey, 2003-04, NCES)


TOTAL PRIVATE SCHOOL TEACHERS: 456,270

Elementary: 207,230
Secondary: 69,240
Combined: 179,800
(Digest 2009, Chapter 2, Table 58)
​

TOTAL CATHOLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS: 146,630

Elementary: 94,800
Secondary: 42,400
Combined: 9,430
(Digest 2009, Chapter 2, Table 58)
​

 

[aplcr0331]

Since my other thread got de-railed , I figured I'd start a new one (sorry) instead of staying on topic.

This section here caught me off guard:

A Question of Quality

I think it's dangerous because I also hear the sentiment that minority teachers are also good for white students because it exposes them to diversity and good black role models. It helps to break stereotypes. And more male teachers are needed as well.

I reject the idea that one's skin color or ethnic background is necessary to be the best role model. I think that if teachers are respectful and aware of different cultures, they'll produce the best classroom results.

I've seen longtime black teachers that were amazing - teachers I want to be like. I've seen freshly minted black teachers that sucked. Same goes for white. I saw a Latino girl who was bilingual keep her job for years despite the fact she let the kids cheat on tests and taught in Spanish (against the rules).

Why are we trying to segregate teachers like this?

I also hate the word 'minority'.
And I'm very sorry, my dear male teachers, but so many of you are so damned lazy.

You may reject the idea that skin color and ethnic background are necessary to be the best role model. But, the African American community disagrees with you:

Welcome to Urban Prep

This school has resurrected segregation both racially and sexually and has been touted in HuffPo, MSNBC, et al about its %100 graduation rate.

Now, who's trying to segregate?

you've seen good and bad teachers? So has everyone else. Look at the hideous teacher cheating scandals in DC, Atlanta, and in the past Chicago.

What do you hate about the word minority? Most people, who are the minority use it often.

Nice broad brush about the male teachers being lazy. All sorts of excuses for blacks and latinos, but those darn lazy white male teachers. Always messing things up.

 

[Patrick2]

Citizenpained:

Here's the thing. White teachers are probably more likely to discipline harder and not understand their minority students. It ends up being a language thing, honestly. If you go into a classroom and you tell the kids they have bad English and they're lazy fucks who are lucky to have you as a teacher, of course they won't do as well. (And yeah. That happens with white teachers.)

You are self-contradictory all the time - do you realize that?

What are minority kids going to encounter in the real world when they grow up? White people. How well is it going to work if they've only had minority teachers, only understand the minority community, and only speak ebonics?

 

[Tank]

CP you're whole OP was about race and racial diffrences, maybe the standards for blacks and Hispanics to become teachers should be lowered like they have for blacks and Hispanics to become a police and firepeople?

 

[CitizenPained]

Citizenpained:

Here's the thing. White teachers are probably more likely to discipline harder and not understand their minority students. It ends up being a language thing, honestly. If you go into a classroom and you tell the kids they have bad English and they're lazy fucks who are lucky to have you as a teacher, of course they won't do as well. (And yeah. That happens with white teachers.)

You are self-contradictory all the time - do you realize that?

What are minority kids going to encounter in the real world when they grow up? White people. How well is it going to work if they've only had minority teachers, only understand the minority community, and only speak ebonics?

How am I contradicting myself? I'm saying that white teachers in urban school is not a bad thing and that people have to stop blaming the 'white female teacher' for the demise of our schools.

 

[CitizenPained]

Nice broad brush about the male teachers being lazy. All sorts of excuses for blacks and latinos, but those darn lazy white male teachers. Always messing things up.

I don't give excuses for anyone. But male teachers are not inherently better...everyone just thinks they can manage a classroom because they're male. While kids may not be as crazy in the class, it doesn't mean men are better teachers or role models.

Most of them I see don't do the extra 10 yards required in urban education, but they do command more respect by proxy of being male.

This has been my experience in every school I've been in.

 

[CitizenPained]

Also, schools like Urban Prep get to hand pick their students and kick em out when necessary. They also have a shit ton of money.

So that model only works in private schools where you can take the ghetto out.

 

[aplcr0331]

Also, schools like Urban Prep get to hand pick their students and kick em out when necessary. They also have a shit ton of money.

So that model only works in private schools where you can take the ghetto out.

Oh..I think you and I are in agreement then.

The Urban Prep kids still have below average standardized test scores. And they are abysmal at passing the state exams.

I am not against Charter schools like this one, you are a public teacher correct?

In you honest opinion. Just given percentage numbers that add up to 100, what percentage does a teacher play in the role of educating a student? How about the parent? What about the students role? I guess we should factor in environment as well. Those four factors rated in percentage as they attribute to student succes if you have a moment.

 

[CitizenPained]

And yet, I haven't seen anything that says places like Urban Prep have higher test scores.

It's about early education. That's what's gonna make the biggest difference.

 

[Patrick2]

Citizenpained:

Here's the thing. White teachers are probably more likely to discipline harder and not understand their minority students. It ends up being a language thing, honestly. If you go into a classroom and you tell the kids they have bad English and they're lazy fucks who are lucky to have you as a teacher, of course they won't do as well. (And yeah. That happens with white teachers.)

You are self-contradictory all the time - do you realize that?

What are minority kids going to encounter in the real world when they grow up? White people. How well is it going to work if they've only had minority teachers, only understand the minority community, and only speak ebonics?

How am I contradicting myself? I'm saying that white teachers in urban school is not a bad thing and that people have to stop blaming the 'white female teacher' for the demise of our schools.

You support "diversity" and bitch when it bites YOU.

 

[CitizenPained]

Also, schools like Urban Prep get to hand pick their students and kick em out when necessary. They also have a shit ton of money.

So that model only works in private schools where you can take the ghetto out.

Oh..I think you and I are in agreement then.

The Urban Prep kids still have below average standardized test scores. And they are abysmal at passing the state exams.

I am not against Charter schools like this one, you are a public teacher correct?

In you honest opinion. Just given percentage numbers that add up to 100, what percentage does a teacher play in the role of educating a student? How about the parent? What about the students role? I guess we should factor in environment as well. Those four factors rated in percentage as they attribute to student succes if you have a moment.

I think you do the best you can do. I think I figure in for about half of the equation. Ultimately, it comes down to the kid. If the kid had positive influence, he's likely to do better.

But come on! Kids spend half of their time trying to figure out how to circumvent adults' rules! I was like that and I was the 'good' kid! So yes, parents make A BIG FN DIFFERENCE.

That being said, I can't take a classroom full of 2nd grade level readers and whip them into college-ready in a year or two. These charters can't do it, either. That's why Urban Prep let go of 60 students and has an ACT avg of 16. And they got into Dartmouth and Cornell?! Fuck that. Plus an average of 16 (the spread wasn't shown) suggests that some students were scoring lower than that.

wt
f

I was reading that the national avg ACT score was 21, and among black males, 17 (16 in Chicago).

WHAT THE FUCK?! I got a 28 and spent a week crying because my friends got higher scores! Yeah I didn't study or anything, and it was my low math (dyscalculia) that pulled it down, but damn. I've never felt so smart about my ACT score. And Dartmouth's median range is 29-34.

 

[CitizenPained]

Citizenpained:



You are self-contradictory all the time - do you realize that?

What are minority kids going to encounter in the real world when they grow up? White people. How well is it going to work if they've only had minority teachers, only understand the minority community, and only speak ebonics?

How am I contradicting myself? I'm saying that white teachers in urban school is not a bad thing and that people have to stop blaming the 'white female teacher' for the demise of our schools.

You support "diversity" and bitch when it bites YOU.

You don't support diversity?

 

[Tank]

In 1950, American schools were among the best in the world. However, vocal elements within our society demanded that the public schools take on a social engineering role as well as an educational one. Violent disruptions of American education were ordered by the Supreme Court for the purpose of breaking down racial barriers. for 30 years, American schools have diverted enormous resources into forced integration, quotas, and bussing operations. (Few people realize how expensive bussing is. Annual cost may run into tens of billions of dollars. In 1990 California alone was spending $500 million per year on integration. Many school districts spend a quarter or more of their budgets on transportation. In Milwaukee alone and in a single school year, 30,000 staff hours were diverted into calculating the race of students to attend the various schools.) The results? Today’s students rank at the very bottom worldwide in science and math, some 40 % of American adults are functionally illiterate, and standardized test scores have declined steadily for both Whites and Blacks. Today the average White still scores 200 points higher on the combined SAT than the average Black. Americans spend more on education than any other country in the world and have the worst results. Massive White flight to escape racial zoning has reduced the tax base of every major American city. In 1983, after nearly two generations of racial experimentation to promote equality, the research arm of the Dept. of Education could not produce a single study that showed Black children were learning appreciably better after desegregation.

 

[aplcr0331]

How am I contradicting myself? I'm saying that white teachers in urban school is not a bad thing and that people have to stop blaming the 'white female teacher' for the demise of our schools.

You support "diversity" and bitch when it bites YOU.

You don't support diversity?

You'd be surprised. Its mostly a SWPL north east rich girl (daddy pays for the finest liberal education money can by) ideal.

Perhaps we could discuss what YOU mean by diversity?

People who look different than you but think like you? Or people who look different than you but think the same way? Or do you want people who look different than you and also think differently? I think we can agree that no matter what, a large group of whites even if they think differently is always "not diverse" Correct? Actually what if we throw the gay wrench in there. Do white gay people count as diverse? Then there's always the conundrum of when one diverse group hates the other diverse group. I.E. dark skinned blacks hating light skinned black. Or blacks hating gay people, latinos, and jews. Or the extreme ehtnocentrism of the Asian cultures. What do we make of the overwhelming majority of the hispanic population being Christian? Can a brown minority that embraces the hated white patriarchal church be diverse too?

Gotta nail down the definition I think.

 

[CitizenPained]

In 1950, American schools were among the best in the world.

Cite?

 

[CitizenPained]

You support "diversity" and bitch when it bites YOU.

You don't support diversity?

You'd be surprised. Its mostly a SWPL north east rich girl (daddy pays for the finest liberal education money can by) ideal.

Perhaps we could discuss what YOU mean by diversity?

People who look different than you but think like you? Or people who look different than you but think the same way? Or do you want people who look different than you and also think differently? I think we can agree that no matter what, a large group of whites even if they think differently is always "not diverse" Correct? Actually what if we throw the gay wrench in there. Do white gay people count as diverse? Then there's always the conundrum of when one diverse group hates the other diverse group. I.E. dark skinned blacks hating light skinned black. Or blacks hating gay people, latinos, and jews. Or the extreme ehtnocentrism of the Asian cultures. What do we make of the overwhelming majority of the hispanic population being Christian? Can a brown minority that embraces the hated white patriarchal church be diverse too?

Gotta nail down the definition I think.

I'm saying that I care about academic performance. I don't care if you're transgendered, deaf, and polka dotted.

Quote from Tim King, the director of Urban Prep:

Fortunately, King said, his students come from
stronger families -- the kind of families that are
smart and committed enough to enroll a son at
Urban Prep.
The bigger problem, he says, is a lack of role
models.
"A role model doesn't have to be a parent," he
says, "but if you don't have someone who looks like
you, who has a similar background, about whom you
can say, 'He did it and I can do it,' then you will never
believe it. That's why all these kids want to be
basketball players or rap stars -- those are the people
they see who look like them."