Minorities lag in AP test performance

[Ozmar]

no one has ever said intelligence is one entity, or that you can rank individuals exclusively by intelligence. that intelligence is seated in the form and function of the brain is undeniable. less intelligent individuals, barring some unusual secondary ability, will usually do poorly on social traits defined by a more intelligent elite. it is that way in any society.

S J Gould was the Tim Wise of his time. long on rationalizations, short on relevant evidence.

edit. malnutrition and disease have always been around. it was the intelligent that formulated plans to decrease them. many of the correlations of social traits to intelligence are difficult to decisively call causation in either direction but the sheer numbers of positive correlations for increased intelligence lead me to think that brain power is probably the most important factor in life.

I bet you could have personally eliminated disease and famine, smart guy. You are so fucking smart that I bet there would be no wars, poverty, or want for anything.

The very fact that you think intelligence alone is the factor shows your lack of insight and at least partially shows why you can't pull your head out of your ass long enough to see the big picture.

I would be interested in hearing your version of the big picture. do stupid people invent, build and maintain things in your dream world?

No, I don't suppose you ever would.

In your dream world, does someone with the intellect of Einstein stay in his country and prevent it from breaking down into a genocidal killing machine, or does this super-intelligent man himself get killed by that killing machine because of his religion? I mean since intelligence itself is suppose to be the cure for all social ills, Einstein staying in Germany with all his mental prowess should have prevented the escalation towards WWII.

 

[IanC]

I bet you could have personally eliminated disease and famine, smart guy. You are so fucking smart that I bet there would be no wars, poverty, or want for anything.

The very fact that you think intelligence alone is the factor shows your lack of insight and at least partially shows why you can't pull your head out of your ass long enough to see the big picture.

I would be interested in hearing your version of the big picture. do stupid people invent, build and maintain things in your dream world?

No, I don't suppose you ever would.

In your dream world, does someone with the intellect of Einstein stay in his country and prevent it from breaking down into a genocidal killing machine, or does this super-intelligent man himself get killed by that killing machine because of his religion? I mean since intelligence itself is suppose to be the cure for all social ills, Einstein staying in Germany with all his mental prowess should have prevented the escalation towards WWII.

why are you changing the subject? my point is that increased intelligence gives benefit in all facets of life, a constant tailwind that usually propels a smart person to greater success than a dull one. why do you think politics disprove that?

 

[Ozmar]

I would be interested in hearing your version of the big picture. do stupid people invent, build and maintain things in your dream world?

No, I don't suppose you ever would.

In your dream world, does someone with the intellect of Einstein stay in his country and prevent it from breaking down into a genocidal killing machine, or does this super-intelligent man himself get killed by that killing machine because of his religion? I mean since intelligence itself is suppose to be the cure for all social ills, Einstein staying in Germany with all his mental prowess should have prevented the escalation towards WWII.

why are you changing the subject? my point is that increased intelligence gives benefit in all facets of life, a constant tailwind that usually propels a smart person to greater success than a dull one. why do you think politics disprove that?

Talk about changing subjects...

But I agree, increased intelligence gives benefits in all facets of life. Why, you receive numerous benefits in this life by the grace of people 100 times more insightful and intelligent than you, yet you claim that somehow because some of them share your skin tone, you can claim their achievements as your own. If anyone is disingenuous, it is you.

 

[IanC]

why do you say I claim someone else's accomplishment as my own? I claim smart people are more useful to a society than dull ones. Productive ones more than the slothfull, competent rather than incompetent, peaceful more than violent. Intelligence is correlated with positive social traits.

Races are measured to have different intelligence levels, different brain size and function, different behaviour. you are free to describe how you think things work, if you actually do have a theory. insults aren't really a response to people who are looking for understanding rather than quashing reasonable debate.

 

[Ozmar]

why do you say I claim someone else's accomplishment as my own? I claim smart people are more useful to a society than dull ones. Productive ones more than the slothfull, competent rather than incompetent, peaceful more than violent. Intelligence is correlated with positive social traits.

Like colonialism, conquest, and WWII genocide. I see your point about "intelligence" being correlated with positive social traits...

Races are measured to have different intelligence levels, different brain size and function, different behaviour. you are free to describe how you think things work, if you actually do have a theory. insults aren't really a response to people who are looking for understanding rather than quashing reasonable debate.

You sling insults yourself. The difference is that your insults are based on intellectually dishonest bad science, and therefore your insults slung are of the utmost cowardice.

 

[IanC]

why do you say I claim someone else's accomplishment as my own? I claim smart people are more useful to a society than dull ones. Productive ones more than the slothfull, competent rather than incompetent, peaceful more than violent. Intelligence is correlated with positive social traits.

Like colonialism, conquest, and WWII genocide. I see your point about "intelligence" being correlated with positive social traits...

Races are measured to have different intelligence levels, different brain size and function, different behaviour. you are free to describe how you think things work, if you actually do have a theory. insults aren't really a response to people who are looking for understanding rather than quashing reasonable debate.

You sling insults yourself. The difference is that your insults are based on intellectually dishonest bad science, and therefore your insults slung are of the utmost cowardice.

so that's the problem. you feel insulted when black short comings are publicly expressed. it must be intellectually dishonest and bad science because it points out uncomfortable physical and behavioural traits measured in blacks. your response to everything is to say whites do it too. dull blacks? there are dull whites too. but you refuse to acknowledge that the ratio of dull/smart is heavily skewed in favour of whites, leading to disparate outcomes whenever cognitive prowess is involved (just about everything). violent blacks? there are violent whites too.. but you refuse to acknowledge that the ratio of criminal/lawabiding is heavily skewed in favour of whites, with blacks committing vastly more crimes per person than whites. you point out WWII with death camps operated by a few sadistic military but I counter with Rwanda where countless machete wielding butchers stood on street corners to perform mayhem on their neighbours instead of smiling at them like they had the week before. I could go on and on. african AIDS health care? beetroot, garlic and rape a baby. what is the latest poll on american africans- is it still 30,40,50% who believe HIV was invented to kill the black man?

So you can be insulted by the reality of black abilities and behaviour if you want to be but I reserve the right to feel insulted when blacks blame whites for black failures, and when blacks try to impose their sickeningly low standards of behaviour on society.

 

[maatsmom843]

why do you say I claim someone else's accomplishment as my own? I claim smart people are more useful to a society than dull ones. Productive ones more than the slothfull, competent rather than incompetent, peaceful more than violent. Intelligence is correlated with positive social traits.

Like colonialism, conquest, and WWII genocide. I see your point about "intelligence" being correlated with positive social traits...

Races are measured to have different intelligence levels, different brain size and function, different behaviour. you are free to describe how you think things work, if you actually do have a theory. insults aren't really a response to people who are looking for understanding rather than quashing reasonable debate.

You sling insults yourself. The difference is that your insults are based on intellectually dishonest bad science, and therefore your insults slung are of the utmost cowardice.

i really didn't want to agree with any of your comments siince you resorted to the level of trading insults in response to a valid (though very flawed argument) but i couldn't agree with you more here. . . . .

the worst part about this country is the well-meaning racists that don't even realize that their way of thinking is just that. . . .times change quickly, mentalities dont.

 

[IanC]

who are th real well meaning racists? liberals who destroyed black families with welfare or conservatives who point out counterproductive behaviours as problems?

using racism as an excuse for failure rather than an incentive to excel and prove racists wrong is a lost opportunity. there are lots of positions available for honest hard working individuals even if they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. there is no reason why blacks couldnt change their reputation for the better but it would involve actually becoming better citizens. just stop doing crimes and form two parent families to raise your children. there are millions of middle class blacks doing that and they are rewarded for it. just up the percentage who are doing it by changing black culture to instill better standards and values.

 

[IanC]

back to the OP. does anyone think that the low performance by minorities wasnt predicted by the racial averages and the threshold involved with tailoring courses to the intelligence level of the top 25% of whites? if only the top 2 or maybe 3% of blacks took the AP courses then the passing rates would be similar, except for the black culture aspect.

 

[maatsmom843]

who are th real well meaning racists? liberals who destroyed black families with welfare or conservatives who point out counterproductive behaviours as problems?

using racism as an excuse for failure rather than an incentive to excel and prove racists wrong is a lost opportunity. there are lots of positions available for honest hard working individuals even if they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. there is no reason why blacks couldnt change their reputation for the better but it would involve actually becoming better citizens. just stop doing crimes and form two parent families to raise your children. there are millions of middle class blacks doing that and they are rewarded for it. just up the percentage who are doing it by changing black culture to instill better standards and values.

hmm i seem to have missed this. . . .

the well-meaning racists are those people in this country who subconsciously accept society's truths about what are referred to as "minority races." They will on the one hand cite the various ways in which they are tolerant of all races, have no predjudices, and detest anyone who shows these tendencies, but in the same vein can believe that any one race is inherently or innately smarter than another. . . .

to save on words here i'll avoid going into specific examples

as far as black people "just changing" their ways and becoming better citizens. . ..

this is where it gets sticky and difficult for anyone other than a black american to truly relate to

one of my favorite phrases is "times change quickly, but mentalities don't" and it's very true

at the risk of sounding like a whiny victim, the mental, spiritual and physical abuse that african americans have endured for centuries cannot be erased instantaneoulsy by any legislation. . . . .

think of it like the battered woman who leaves one abusive boyfriend, but hooks up with another one, and on and on until she has effectively allowed these men to ruin her self-esteem and image.

of course the responsibility ultimately lies with the woman to work to improve herself and not continue to subject herself to these kinds ofsituations, but even a licensed psychologist would not lay all of the blame at her feet for her repeated irrationality and erratic behavior after having being battered in all of her romantic endeavors.

have you ever read the Willie Lynch theory? this is real stuff. . . .its not jsut that black people won't take the initiative to get better, we have been purposely subjected to the worst kinds of abuse and degradation to diminish our self worth and condition us into believing that we are only fit to be at the lowest level of society. . . . .not excuses, facts.

 

[maatsmom843]

i was gonna post a link but this is worth letting everybody see. . . . .



This speech was delivered by Willie Lynch on the bank of the James River in the colony of Virginia in 1712. Lynch was a British slave owner in the West Indies. He was invited to the colony of Virginia in 1712 to teach his methods to slave owners there. The term “lynching” is derived from his last name.
[beginning of the Willie Lynch Letter]

Greetings,

Gentlemen. I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the West Indies, where I have experimented with some of the newest, and still the oldest, methods for control of slaves. Ancient Rome would envy us if my program is implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we cherish, I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords of wood as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers, you are here using the tree and the rope on occasions. I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree, a couple miles back. You are not only losing valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed. Gentlemen, you know what your problems are; I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. In my bag here, I HAVE A FULL PROOF METHOD FOR CONTROLLING YOUR BLACK SLAVES. I guarantee every one of you that, if installed correctly, IT WILL CONTROL THE SLAVES FOR AT LEAST 300 HUNDREDS YEARS. My method is simple. Any member of your family or your overseer can use it. I HAVE OUTLINED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENCES AMONG THE SLAVES; AND I TAKE THESE DIFFERENCES AND MAKE THEM BIGGER. I USE FEAR, DISTRUST AND ENVY FOR CONTROL PURPOSES. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences and think about them. On top of my list is “AGE,” but it’s there only because it starts with an “a.” The second is “COLOR” or shade. There is INTELLIGENCE, SIZE, SEX, SIZES OF PLANTATIONS, STATUS on plantations, ATTITUDE of owners, whether the slaves live in the valley, on a hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, course hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences, I shall give you an outline of action, but before that, I shall assure you that DISTRUST IS STRONGER THAN TRUST AND ENVY STRONGER THAN ADULATION, RESPECT OR ADMIRATION. The Black slaves after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self-refueling and self-generating for HUNDREDS of years, maybe THOUSANDS. Don’t forget, you must pitch the OLD black male vs. the YOUNG black male, and the YOUNG black male against the OLD black male. You must use the DARK skin slaves vs. the LIGHT skin slaves, and the LIGHT skin slaves vs. the DARK skin slaves. You must use the FEMALE vs. the MALE, and the MALE vs. the FEMALE. You must also have white servants and overseers [who] distrust all Blacks. But it is NECESSARY THAT YOUR SLAVES TRUST AND DEPEND ON US. THEY MUST LOVE, RESPECT AND TRUST ONLY US. Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. IF USED INTENSELY FOR ONE YEAR, THE SLAVES THEMSELVES WILL REMAIN PERPETUALLY DISTRUSTFUL. Thank you gentlemen.”

LET’S MAKE A SLAVE

It was the interest and business of slave holders to study human nature, and the slave nature in particular, with a view to practical results. I and many of them attained astonishing proficiency in this direction. They had to deal not with earth, wood and stone, but with men and, by every regard, they had for their own safety and prosperity they needed to know the material on which they were to work, conscious of the injustice and wrong they were every hour perpetuating and knowing what they themselves would do. Were they the victims of such wrongs? They were constantly looking for the first signs of the dreaded retribution. They watched therefore with skilled and practiced eyes, and learned to read with great accuracy, the state of mind and heart of the slave, through his sable face. Unusual sobriety, apparent abstractions, sullenness and indifference indeed, any mood out of the common was afforded ground for suspicion and inquiry. Frederick Douglas LET’S MAKE A SLAVE is a study of the scientific process of man-breaking and slave-making. It describes the rationale and results of the Anglo Saxons’ ideas and methods of insuring the master/slave relationship. LET’S MAKE A SLAVE “The Original and Development of a Social Being Called ‘The Negro.’” Let us make a slave. What do we need? First of all, we need a black ****** man, a pregnant ****** woman and her baby ****** boy. Second, we will use the same basic principle that we use in breaking a horse, combined with some more sustaining factors. What we do with horses is that we break them from one form of life to another; that is, we reduce them from their natural state in nature. Whereas nature provides them with the natural capacity to take care of their offspring, we break that natural string of independence from them and thereby create a dependency status, so that we may be able to get from them useful production for our business and pleasure.

CARDINAL PRINCIPLES FOR MAKING A NEGRO

For fear that our future generations may not understand the principles of breaking both of the beast together, the ****** and the horse. We understand that short range planning economics results in periodic economic chaos; so that to avoid turmoil in the economy, it requires us to have breadth and depth in long range comprehensive planning, articulating both skill sharp perceptions. We lay down the following principles for long range comprehensive economic planning. Both horse and ******* [are] no good to the economy in the wild or natural state. Both must be BROKEN and TIED together for orderly production. For orderly future, special and particular attention must be paid to the FEMALE and the YOUNGEST offspring. Both must be CROSSBRED to produce a variety and division of labor. Both must be taught to respond to a peculiar new LANGUAGE. Psychological and physical instruction of CONTAINMENT must be created for both. We hold the six cardinal principles as truth to be self-evident, based upon following the discourse concerning the economics of breaking and tying the horse and the ****** together, all inclusive of the six principles laid down above. NOTE: Neither principle alone will suffice for good economics. All principles must be employed for orderly good of the nation. Accordingly, both a wild horse and a wild or natur[al] ****** is dangerous even if captured, for they will have the tendency to seek their customary freedom and, in doing so, might kill you in your sleep. You cannot rest. They sleep while you are awake, and are awake while you are asleep. They are DANGEROUS near the family house and it requires too much labor to watch them away from the house. Above all, you cannot get them to work in this natural state. Hence, both the horse and the ****** must be broken; that is breaking them from one form of mental life to another. KEEP THE BODY, TAKE THE MIND! In other words, break the will to resist. Now the breaking process is the same for both the horse and the ******, only slightly varying in degrees. But, as we said before, there is an art in long range economic planning. YOU MUST KEEP YOUR EYE AND THOUGHTS ON THE FEMALE and the OFFSPRING of the horse and the ******. A brief discourse in offspring development will shed light on the key to sound economic principles. Pay little attention to the generation of original breaking, but CONCENTRATE ON FUTURE GENERATION. Therefore, if you break the FEMALE mother, she will BREAK the offspring in its early years of development; and when the offspring is old enough to work, she will deliver it up to you, for her normal female protective tendencies will have been lost in the original breaking process. For example, take the case of the wild stud horse, a female horse and an already infant horse and compare the breaking process with two captured ****** males in their natural state, a pregnant ****** woman with her infant offspring. Take the stud horse, break him for limited containment. Completely break the female horse until she becomes very gentle, whereas you or anybody can ride her in her comfort. Breed the mare and the stud until you have the desired offspring. Then, you can turn the stud to freedom until you need him again. Train the female horse whereby she will eat out of your hand, and she will in turn train the infant horse to eat out of your hand, also. When it comes to breaking the uncivilized ******, use the same process, but vary the degree and step up the pressure, so as to do a complete reversal of the mind. Take the meanest and most restless ******, strip him of his clothes in front of the remaining male *******, the female, and the ****** infant, tar and feather him, tie each leg to a different horse faced in opposite directions, set him afire and beat both horses to pull him apart in front of the remaining *******. The next step is to take a bullwhip and beat the remaining ****** males to the point of death, in front of the female and the infant. Don’t kill him, but PUT THE FEAR OF GOD IN HIM, for he can be useful for future breeding.

THE BREAKING PROCESS OF THE AFRICAN WOMAN

Take the female and run a series of tests on her to see if she will submit to your desires willingly. Test her in every way, because she is the most important factor for good economics. If she shows any sign of resistance in submitting completely to your will, do not hesitate to use the bullwhip on her to extract that last bit of [b----] out of her. Take care not to kill her, for in doing so, you spoil good economics. When in complete submission, she will train her offsprings in the early years to submit to labor when they become of age. Understanding is the best thing. Therefore, we shall go deeper into this area of the subject matter concerning what we have produced here in this breaking process of the female ******. We have reversed the relationship; in her natural uncivilized state, she would have a strong dependency on the uncivilized ****** male, and she would have a limited protective tendency toward her independent male offspring and would raise male offsprings to be dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance. We reversed nature by burning and pulling a civilized ****** apart and bullwhipping the other to the point of death, all in her presence. By her being left alone, unprotected, with the MALE IMAGE DESTROYED, the ordeal caused her to move from her psychologically dependent state to a frozen, independent state. In this frozen, psychological state of independence, she will raise her MALE and female offspring in reversed roles. For FEAR of the young male’s life, she will psychologically train him to be MENTALLY WEAK and DEPENDENT, but PHYSICALLY STRONG. Because she has become psychologically independent, she will train her FEMALE offsprings to be psychologically independent. What have you got? You’ve got the ****** WOMAN OUT FRONT AND THE ****** MAN BEHIND AND SCARED. This is a perfect situation of sound sleep and economics. Before the breaking process, we had to be alertly on guard at all times. Now, we can sleep soundly, for out of frozen fear his woman stands guard for us. He cannot get past her early slave-molding process. He is a good tool, now ready to be tied to the horse at a tender age. By the time a ****** boy reaches the age of sixteen, he is soundly broken in and ready for a long life of sound and efficient work and the reproduction of a unit of good labor force. Continually through the breaking of uncivilized savage *******, by throwing the ****** female savage into a frozen psychological state of independence, by killing the protective male image, and by creating a submissive dependent mind of the ****** male slave, we have created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever, unless a phenomenon occurs and re-shifts the position of the male and female slaves. We show what we mean by example. Take the case of the two economic slave units and examine them close.

THE NEGRO MARRIAGE

We breed two ****** males with two ****** females. Then, we take the ****** male away from them and keep them moving and working. Say one ****** female bears a ****** female and the other bears a ****** male; both ****** females—being without influence of the ****** male image, frozen with a independent psychology—will raise their offspring into reverse positions. The one with the female offspring will teach her to be like herself, independent and negotiable (we negotiate with her, through her, by her, negotiates her at will). The one with the ****** male offspring, she being frozen subconscious fear for his life, will raise him to be mentally dependent and weak, but physically strong; in other words, body over mind. Now, in a few years when these two offsprings become fertile for early reproduction, we will mate and breed them and continue the cycle. That is good, sound and long range comprehensive planning.

WARNING: POSSIBLE INTERLOPING NEGATIVES

Earlier, we talked about the non-economic good of the horse and the ****** in their wild or natural state; we talked out the principle of breaking and tying them together for orderly production. Furthermore, we talked about paying particular attention to the female savage and her offspring for orderly future planning, then more recently we stated that, by reversing the positions of the male and female savages, we created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever unless a phenomenon occurred and reshifts positions of the male and female savages. Our experts warned us about the possibility of this phenomenon occurring, for they say that the mind has a strong drive to correct and re-correct itself over a period of time if it can touch some substantial original historical base; and they advised us that the best way to deal with the phenomenon is to shave off the brute’s mental history and create a multiplicity of phenomena of illusions, so that each illusion will twirl in its own orbit, something similar to floating balls in a vacuum. This creation of multiplicity of phenomena of illusions entails the principle of crossbreeding the ****** and the horse as we stated above, the purpose of which is to create a diversified division of labor; thereby creating different levels of labor and different values of illusion at each connecting level of labor. The results of which is the severance of the points of original beginnings for each sphere illusion. Since we feel that the subject matter may get more complicated as we proceed in laying down our economic plan concerning the purpose, reason and effect of crossbreeding horses and *******, we shall lay down the following definition terms for future generations. Orbiting cycle means a thing turning in a given path. Axis means upon which or around which a body turns. Phenomenon means something beyond ordinary conception and inspires awe and wonder. Multiplicity means a great number. Means a globe. Crossbreeding a horse means taking a horse and breeding it with an ass and you get a dumb, backward, ass long-headed mule that is not reproductive nor productive by itself. Crossbreeding ******* mean taking so many drops of good white blood and putting them into as many ****** women as possible, varying the drops by the various tone that you want, and then letting them breed with each other until another circle of color appears as you desire. What this means is this: Put the ******* and the horse in a breeding pot, mix some asses and some good white blood and what do you get? You got a multiplicity of colors of ass backward, unusual *******, running, tied to backward ass long-headed mules, the one productive of itself, the other sterile. (The one constant, the other dying, we keep the ****** constant for we may replace the mules for another tool) both mule and ****** tied to each other, neither knowing where the other came from and neither productive for itself, nor without each other.

CONTROLLED LANGUAGE

Crossbreeding completed, for further severance from their original beginning, WE MUST COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE THE MOTHER TONGUE of both the new ****** and the new mule, and institute a new language that involves the new life’s work of both. You know language is a peculiar institution. It leads to the heart of a people. The more a foreigner knows about the language of another country the more he is able to move through all levels of that society. Therefore, if the foreigner is an enemy of the country, to the extent that he knows the body of the language, to that extent is the country vulnerable to attack or invasion of a foreign culture. For example, if you take a slave, if you teach him all about your language, he will know all your secrets, and he is then no more a slave, for you can’t fool him any longer, and BEING A FOOL IS ONE OF THE BASIC INGREDIENTS OF ANY INCIDENTS TO THE MAINTENANCE OF THE SLAVERY SYSTEM. For example, if you told a slave that he must perform in getting out “our crops” and he knows the language well, he would know that “our crops” didn’t mean “our crops” and the slavery system would break down, for he would relate on the basis of what “our crops” really meant. So you have to be careful in setting up the new language; for the slaves would soon be in your house, talking to you as “man to man” and that is death to our economic system. In addition, the definitions of words or terms are only a minute part of the process. Values are created and transported by communication through the body of the language. A total society has many interconnected value systems. All the values in the society have bridges of language to connect them for orderly working in the society. But for these language bridges, these many value systems would sharply clash and cause internal strife or civil war, the degree of the conflict being determined by the magnitude of the issues or relative opposing strength in whatever form. For example, if you put a slave in a hog pen and train him to live there and incorporate in him to value it as a way of life completely, the biggest problem you would have out of him is that he would worry you about provisions to keep the hog pen clean, or the same hog pen and make a slip and incorporate something in his language whereby he comes to value a house more than he does his hog pen, you got a problem. He will soon be in your house.Additional Note: “Henty Berry, speaking in the Virginia House of Delegates in 1832, described the situation as it existed in many parts of the South at this time: “We have, as far as possible, closed every avenue by which light may enter their (the slaves) minds. If we could extinguish the capacity to see the light, our work would be complete; they would then be on a level with the beasts of the field and we should be safe. I am not certain that we would not do it, if we could find out the process and that on the plea of necessity.” From Brown America, The story of a New Race by Edwin R. Embree. 1931 The Viking Press.

come on, man!

 

[maatsmom843]

how, pray tell, does one easily erase the impressions of living in a world/culture/society that reduces your kind to this level, even until this day?

 

[Flagwavrusa]

think of it like the battered woman who leaves one abusive boyfriend, but hooks up with another one, and on and on until she has effectively allowed these men to ruin her self-esteem and image.

of course the responsibility ultimately lies with the woman to work to improve herself and not continue to subject herself to these kinds ofsituations, but even a licensed psychologist would not lay all of the blame at her feet for her repeated irrationality and erratic behavior after having being battered in all of her romantic endeavors.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

who are th real well meaning racists? liberals who destroyed black families with welfare or conservatives who point out counterproductive behaviours as problems?

using racism as an excuse for failure rather than an incentive to excel and prove racists wrong is a lost opportunity. there are lots of positions available for honest hard working individuals even if they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. there is no reason why blacks couldnt change their reputation for the better but it would involve actually becoming better citizens. just stop doing crimes and form two parent families to raise your children. there are millions of middle class blacks doing that and they are rewarded for it. just up the percentage who are doing it by changing black culture to instill better standards and values.

hmm i seem to have missed this. . . .

the well-meaning racists are those people in this country who subconsciously accept society's truths about what are referred to as "minority races." They will on the one hand cite the various ways in which they are tolerant of all races, have no predjudices, and detest anyone who shows these tendencies, but in the same vein can believe that any one race is inherently or innately smarter than another. . . .

to save on words here i'll avoid going into specific examples

as far as black people "just changing" their ways and becoming better citizens. . ..

this is where it gets sticky and difficult for anyone other than a black american to truly relate to

one of my favorite phrases is "times change quickly, but mentalities don't" and it's very true

at the risk of sounding like a whiny victim, the mental, spiritual and physical abuse that african americans have endured for centuries cannot be erased instantaneoulsy by any legislation. . . . .

think of it like the battered woman who leaves one abusive boyfriend, but hooks up with another one, and on and on until she has effectively allowed these men to ruin her self-esteem and image.

of course the responsibility ultimately lies with the woman to work to improve herself and not continue to subject herself to these kinds ofsituations, but even a licensed psychologist would not lay all of the blame at her feet for her repeated irrationality and erratic behavior after having being battered in all of her romantic endeavors.

have you ever read the Willie Lynch theory? this is real stuff. . . .its not jsut that black people won't take the initiative to get better, we have been purposely subjected to the worst kinds of abuse and degradation to diminish our self worth and condition us into believing that we are only fit to be at the lowest level of society. . . . .not excuses, facts.

In your analogy does the woman at any point have a choice? You must think that slavery was just limited to race and one country.

 

[Tank]

.

come on, man!

Link?

 

[maatsmom843]

who are th real well meaning racists? liberals who destroyed black families with welfare or conservatives who point out counterproductive behaviours as problems?

using racism as an excuse for failure rather than an incentive to excel and prove racists wrong is a lost opportunity. there are lots of positions available for honest hard working individuals even if they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. there is no reason why blacks couldnt change their reputation for the better but it would involve actually becoming better citizens. just stop doing crimes and form two parent families to raise your children. there are millions of middle class blacks doing that and they are rewarded for it. just up the percentage who are doing it by changing black culture to instill better standards and values.

hmm i seem to have missed this. . . .

the well-meaning racists are those people in this country who subconsciously accept society's truths about what are referred to as "minority races." They will on the one hand cite the various ways in which they are tolerant of all races, have no predjudices, and detest anyone who shows these tendencies, but in the same vein can believe that any one race is inherently or innately smarter than another. . . .

to save on words here i'll avoid going into specific examples

as far as black people "just changing" their ways and becoming better citizens. . ..

this is where it gets sticky and difficult for anyone other than a black american to truly relate to

one of my favorite phrases is "times change quickly, but mentalities don't" and it's very true

at the risk of sounding like a whiny victim, the mental, spiritual and physical abuse that african americans have endured for centuries cannot be erased instantaneoulsy by any legislation. . . . .

think of it like the battered woman who leaves one abusive boyfriend, but hooks up with another one, and on and on until she has effectively allowed these men to ruin her self-esteem and image.

of course the responsibility ultimately lies with the woman to work to improve herself and not continue to subject herself to these kinds ofsituations, but even a licensed psychologist would not lay all of the blame at her feet for her repeated irrationality and erratic behavior after having being battered in all of her romantic endeavors.

have you ever read the Willie Lynch theory? this is real stuff. . . .its not just that black people won't take the initiative to get better, we have been purposely subjected to the worst kinds of abuse and degradation to diminish our self worth and condition us into believing that we are only fit to be at the lowest level of society. . . . .not excuses, facts.

In your analogy does the woman at any point have a choice? You must think that slavery was just limited to race and one country.

yees the woman in my analogy has a choice, whereas the slave does not, so her chances/conditions are better than the slave's in any comparison!

as to your second statement, please quote the posts in which you feel those implications were made

 

[IanC]

who are th real well meaning racists? liberals who destroyed black families with welfare or conservatives who point out counterproductive behaviours as problems?

using racism as an excuse for failure rather than an incentive to excel and prove racists wrong is a lost opportunity. there are lots of positions available for honest hard working individuals even if they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. there is no reason why blacks couldnt change their reputation for the better but it would involve actually becoming better citizens. just stop doing crimes and form two parent families to raise your children. there are millions of middle class blacks doing that and they are rewarded for it. just up the percentage who are doing it by changing black culture to instill better standards and values.

hmm i seem to have missed this. . . .

the well-meaning racists are those people in this country who subconsciously accept society's truths about what are referred to as "minority races." They will on the one hand cite the various ways in which they are tolerant of all races, have no predjudices, and detest anyone who shows these tendencies, but in the same vein can believe that any one race is inherently or innately smarter than another. . . .

to save on words here i'll avoid going into specific examples

as far as black people "just changing" their ways and becoming better citizens. . ..

this is where it gets sticky and difficult for anyone other than a black american to truly relate to

one of my favorite phrases is "times change quickly, but mentalities don't" and it's very true

at the risk of sounding like a whiny victim, the mental, spiritual and physical abuse that african americans have endured for centuries cannot be erased instantaneoulsy by any legislation. . . . .

think of it like the battered woman who leaves one abusive boyfriend, but hooks up with another one, and on and on until she has effectively allowed these men to ruin her self-esteem and image.

of course the responsibility ultimately lies with the woman to work to improve herself and not continue to subject herself to these kinds ofsituations, but even a licensed psychologist would not lay all of the blame at her feet for her repeated irrationality and erratic behavior after having being battered in all of her romantic endeavors.

have you ever read the Willie Lynch theory? this is real stuff. . . .its not jsut that black people won't take the initiative to get better, we have been purposely subjected to the worst kinds of abuse and degradation to diminish our self worth and condition us into believing that we are only fit to be at the lowest level of society. . . . .not excuses, facts.

the willie lynch letter is an urban legend of course. what do you propose as a solution for blacks feeling bad for themselves? surely you are not putting it into white hand for a solution are you? whites have changed, a lot, in the last fifty years. if you think outcomes can ever be equalized you are mistaken. even in the same family the children will be different. the best we can do is try to equalize opportunities but most opportunity and learning is based on family values. how can outside sources go inside the family unit and 'fix it'? I was a strong supporter of affirmative action as a means of strengthening the black middle class, which would then be a goal for other blacks to strive for. unfortunately there have been diminishing returns on the investment, a trend towards quotas based solely on race, and a counter-productive expectation of being given something for the colour of skin rather than a reward for effort that is bolstered for being a minority.

that said, I can understand that it is hard to adopt higher standards and values than you grew up with. but many have, to their benefit.