Minimum Wage

Discussion in 'Economy' started by Metternich, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. Metternich
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    Metternich Federalist Farmer

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    ((This post is taken from my blog, as I post a new entry - I take the one it replaced as most recent and spread it around the forums I contribute too. That way I feel like I contribute to here, as much as you guys contribute to my blog.

    Taken from: Here))

    As of late, minimum wage has laid heavily on my mind. It's not out of economic necessity, I'm not trying to pass myself off as another disgruntled minority begging you to feel guilty on my behalf, but instead casual reminiscing. What is minimum wage, why is it so important and most importantly: who like it and who doesn't? It seems like one of those issues that 'everyone' seems to know 'everything' about and for that reason I knew most were lying. It's not an election issue, so there's less fire brands running around screaming - an improvement. Anyhow, without much further ado: Minimum Wage.

    The case for a Minimum Wage is obvious, but nonetheless in need of being restated. Many economically authoritarian elements within the country see the issue not as of merely a 'minimum' in the sense of absolute bottom threshold but more as a "Living Wage." [1] Namely, If the minimum wage went up at least to $7, or better still to near $10 an hour, millions would be lifted out of poverty - by last estimates. Those estimates, I hasten to assure people skeptical of the so-called 'economists' these days, are not exactly exact and have their share of criticism.

    The other benefit, say supporters, is that it is inherently racist to not support it. That indeed a minimum wage can bring up minorities from poverty, as long as the minimum wage is high enough. [3] There is wide consensus, even among some conservatives, that a Minimum Wage helps out certain minorities - mostly excluding affluent Asian American populations - to get a leg up in life. While there is no direct correlation between race (size of minorities within a state) and adoption of minimum wage laws. [2] One must keep in mind the persistence of the belief - on both sides of the aisle - indicate that such a statistic doesn't tell the full story, or at the very least shows that Minimum Wage opponents are not as divided by race as first thought.

    Speaking of which, the opposition does seem to be large and well organized. Mainly concering themselves with an attack through the plain technical economics aspects - not the race preference of this (alleged) silver bullet for poverty. The Independent Institute reports that In an American Economic Review poll, 90 percent of economists agreed that minimum wage laws increase unemployment among low-skilled workers." [6] While initially I was skeptical of such a number, the sheer amount of articles and economic institutes dedicated to looking at various topics - like Minimum Wage - who disliked it made such a figure low; if anything. The Ludwig von Mises Institute (Located in Auburn, Alabama) says that "Tragically, a higher minimum wage and workplace-safety regulations are likely to exacerbate rather than mitigate social inequalities." [5] While The Heritage Foundation declares that "it doesn’t just take away current jobs, but also future job opportunities." Indeed, any effort to find any sort of true - socially liberal - economic reports on the subject mostly makes the case 'it doesn't affect enough workers to hurt the economy,' [7] which to me: sounds like acceptance that a Minimum Wage hurts economic growth but not enough to change anything (hopefully). Though even ACORN (famous for last year's Registration of The Year Award after they got Mickey Mouse registered for the Democrat Party) has made the case that higher minimum wages prevents them from hiring more people. [8]

    Economic critics also make the case that minimum wage doesn't actually improve employment, overall. Indeed, there is ample evidence that minimum wage laws hurt employment. [9] [10] For indeed, of the top 15 employment rates only one (Iowa, at #5) has a minimum wage higher then Federally mandated, while four have one lower (Wyoming #3, New Mexico #7, Kansas #12, Arkansas #13). The majority do have one at par with the Federal level, but that is constantly attacked as to low while most who have a higher minimum wage all but have a monopoly on high unemployment (7 out the 10 highest unemployment rates have higher minimum wages).

    The case is also made by the Austrian School redoubt, no less, called the Ludwig von Mises Institute [4] (along with a collection of similarly minded institutions, such as the Libertarian Party of America) that a minimum wage is actually somewhat racist. In short, that it is hard for a (Mises.org's example) reformed black convict (with a special emphasis on the high incarceration levels of African-American males) who is clean, looking for a little work while he picks his life back up to compete against some rich, white, frat boy. Because, to be perfectly blunt, if the convict can't undercut the lazy frat boy's wage then he won't be hired.



    [1] A Moral Minimum Wage

    [2] (Page 10 of 24) - Race and Policy Responsiveness in an Era of SubtleRetrenchment authored by Beamer, Glenn.

    [3] Higher Minimum Wage Can Lift Minorities

    [4] The Minimum Wage, Discrimination, and Inequality - Art Carden - Mises Institute

    [5] Minimum Wage—Maximum Nonsense: Newsroom: The Independent Institute

    [6] Minimizing Economic Opportunity by Raising the Minimum Wage

    [7] The Economic Effects of the Minimum Wage

    [8] RealClearPolitics - Commentary - Liberal Doublespeak on the Minimum Wage by Bruce Bartlett

    [9] Unemployment Rates for States

    ((Discuss, deliberate, am I right or am I wrong?))
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2009
  2. Kevin_Kennedy
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    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

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    You are correct, the minimum wage does lead to unemployment. If a company is forced to pay every employee a minimum wage then there are going to be some people, or positions, that simply aren't worth that minimum wage in the eyes of the owner, and that will lead to more unemployment.

    Also, the Mises Institute is located in Auburn, Albama, not Mobile.
     
  3. Metternich
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    Metternich Federalist Farmer

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    My mistake.

    Glad you enjoyed reading it.
     
  4. neurosport
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    neurosport BANNED

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    there is no need to argue about minimum wage - just think what it actually is

    minimum wage is treating the symptoms, not the problem

    the problem is that 80% of people are good for nothing but flipping burgers and merely 20% of people would be enough to flip all the burgers there are. therefore these 80% of people have to chase 20% of jobs and the value of their labor plunges to zero.

    now we could either try to educate them so they are able to do something more advanced or we could recognize that these people are USELESS, will NEVER be able to feed themselves and simply give them food stamps and housing in the projects. that way most of them will stay at home and the few who are workaholics can continue to flip their burgers for $1/hour ( as well as receive their food stamps and housing ).

    instead we have half the useless people getting a nice minimum wage and making ends meet and the other half sitting in jail because there were not enough jobs flipping burgers for them.
     
  5. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    You are an idiot ... plain and simple. Many people who are stuck "flipping burgers" have higher education, for one thing. The other is that no matter how "educated" you are, you can still be a moron. I am a proud highschool dropout, and I fix what higher educated people fuck up ...
     
  6. neurosport
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    neurosport BANNED

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    My love - do you have a point ?
     
  7. KittenKoder
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    KittenKoder Senior Member

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    First two sentences, read much? Higher education is for morons who can't get paid for their own ability and need that piece of paper to lean on, most who get it are complete morons.
     
  8. auditor0007
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    auditor0007 Gold Member

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    I support reasonable minimum wages. But let's not get carried away. First of all, a national minimum wage is a complete joke, because the cost of living varies dramatically from one part of the country to another.

    In many parts of the country, no one can be hired for the standard minimum wage because the lack of demand for even the lowest paying jobs pushes those wages well above the minimum. At the same time, in other parts of the country, those same minimum wages cannot be sustained by local employers because wages are so much lower overall to begin with, and it just becomes impossible to pay those wages and stay in business.

    It seems to me that the federal government should stay out of this and leave it up to the individual states to decide what the minimum wage will be for their state. This actually happens in some cases where state minimum wages are higher than the federal minimum. This definitely is an issue that the fed has no need getting involved with, other than for say, military personnel.
     
  9. neurosport
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    neurosport BANNED

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    no silly goose.

    higher education is so u can spend 4 - 6 years chilling in college while your parents pay for it.
     
  10. Metternich
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    Metternich Federalist Farmer

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    So, for example, a veteran recieves a higher Federally mandated minimum wage then his co-workers? I like it, but I believe it goes against the General Welfare clause in the constitution.
     

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