millionaires 5.4 pct surtax

The problem with bad government is that it's bad.

Here's a thought...let's try good government for a change.
 
More than often than not, Right wing talking points and facts are one in the same , this in one such occasion, sorry.

while upper income borrowers received nearly 40 percent of the loans.

Most Subprime Loans Went to Upper Income, Non-Minorities

So is it your contention that upper income borrowers came from underserved communities?
No Im saying their are variables , there are a strata of causes for the meltdown.
Increased CRA leading from non local sources is a serious one.
 
Except for the obvious lies, such as equating CRA loans with subprime loans.
There are lots of variables, and languange ,equating(yours), causing(others) I use contribute to the problem

Economist Thomas DiLorenzo, for instance, wrote that the current housing crisis is "the direct result of thirty years of governmentpolicy that has forced banks to make bad loans to un-creditworthy borrowers." 2 Robert Litan of the BrookingsInstitution similarly suggested that the 1990s enhance-ment of the CRA may have contributed to the current crisis. "If the CRA had not been so aggressively pushed," Litan said, "it is conceivable things would not be quite as bad. People have to be honest about that.

CRA Lending During the Subprime Meltdown

The report states Despite these caveats, we believe that this research should help to quell if not fully lay to rest the arguments that the CRA caused the current subprime lending boom by requiring banks to lend irresponsibly in low- and moderate-income areas.



The Government-Created Subprime Mortgage Meltdown by Thomas DiLorenzo

If you believe there was "no effect" from the CRA, that is your position.

And after reading the lengthy link, it shoots down the brooking's institutes speculation and says, without a doubt, that the CRA is NOT the cause of this crisis and that these loans made in Cra areas by regulated institutions were less likely to be in foreclosure....and a very SMALL PART of this crisis.
 
More than often than not, Right wing talking points and facts are one in the same , this in one such occasion, sorry.

while upper income borrowers received nearly 40 percent of the loans.

Most Subprime Loans Went to Upper Income, Non-Minorities

So is it your contention that upper income borrowers came from underserved communities?
No Im saying their are variables , there are a strata of causes for the meltdown.
Increased CRA leading from non local sources is a serious one.

it WAS NOT increased CRA lending by outside sources....it was outside sources going in to low and moderately low income areas to prey on these people with predatory loans that were 50% more costly than loans made by regulated institutions providing secure CRA loans is what I read?
 
I get a chuckle from all of you here that buy into this let the "rich" pay for it mantra. If you think for one moment that 250K and above represents "rich" then you all are in for a very big surpirse. I would suggest each of you walk into the local pizza franchise or coffee franchise and ask the owner of they consider themsleves "rich" because those are the people that you are talking about paying for your healthcare here. Further, if this nonsense passes., and you go and expect to get service and suffendly find that the same pizza place or coffee joint that you once visited all the time is no longer there or the service is bad because they have few employee's just remember that your healthcare insurance is what you traded for that. I've said this many times and will continue to say it, wealthy people that have enough liquid assets to avoid any of this nonsense will do so, so the "rich" you target are actually hard working people that have done nothing more that achieve success. Think if of it this way, the Doctor you are all screaming that the Govt. give you free of charge is the very same person you are asking to be taxed to pay for it. Further, All of you who promote this idea, you have my sympathy for the country you will leave our children and grandchildren. I do hope your all proud of yourselves to lead a nation that once was the beacon for an entire world to one that will be just another nation that will be begging the wealthy nations for a handout.
 
I get a chuckle from all of you here that buy into this let the "rich" pay for it mantra. If you think for one moment that 250K and above represents "rich" then you all are in for a very big surpirse. I would suggest each of you walk into the local pizza franchise or coffee franchise and ask the owner of they consider themsleves "rich" because those are the people that you are talking about paying for your healthcare here. Further, if this nonsense passes., and you go and expect to get service and suffendly find that the same pizza place or coffee joint that you once visited all the time is no longer there or the service is bad because they have few employee's just remember that your healthcare insurance is what you traded for that. I've said this many times and will continue to say it, wealthy people that have enough liquid assets to avoid any of this nonsense will do so, so the "rich" you target are actually hard working people that have done nothing more that achieve success. Think if of it this way, the Doctor you are all screaming that the Govt. give you free of charge is the very same person you are asking to be taxed to pay for it. Further, All of you who promote this idea, you have my sympathy for the country you will leave our children and grandchildren. I do hope your all proud of yourselves to lead a nation that once was the beacon for an entire world to one that will be just another nation that will be begging the wealthy nations for a handout.

They don't take home $250K a year. If they do, then they are "rich". And the top 1.2% make $350k a year, not 250. And that's only $1500 from each of them so that every man woman and child is covered with health insurance.

And most of them own business' and they pay for our healthcare now anyways. They'll end up saving.

Now, tell me how it won't work and how the for profits are doing such a great job now.

PS. While you cry for the rich, do you remember what gas was this time last year? $4 a gallon. Today its under $2.50 a gallon. So they didn't mind spreading our wealth to the oil companies. And healthcare thinks they can get away with it even on the Dems watch?

Maybe they can. You better hope they paid Max Baucus enough to stop whats coming.
 
I get a chuckle from all of you here that buy into this let the "rich" pay for it mantra. If you think for one moment that 250K and above represents "rich" then you all are in for a very big surpirse. I would suggest each of you walk into the local pizza franchise or coffee franchise and ask the owner of they consider themsleves "rich" because those are the people that you are talking about paying for your healthcare here. Further, if this nonsense passes., and you go and expect to get service and suffendly find that the same pizza place or coffee joint that you once visited all the time is no longer there or the service is bad because they have few employee's just remember that your healthcare insurance is what you traded for that. I've said this many times and will continue to say it, wealthy people that have enough liquid assets to avoid any of this nonsense will do so, so the "rich" you target are actually hard working people that have done nothing more that achieve success. Think if of it this way, the Doctor you are all screaming that the Govt. give you free of charge is the very same person you are asking to be taxed to pay for it. Further, All of you who promote this idea, you have my sympathy for the country you will leave our children and grandchildren. I do hope your all proud of yourselves to lead a nation that once was the beacon for an entire world to one that will be just another nation that will be begging the wealthy nations for a handout.

They don't take home $250K a year. If they do, then they are "rich". And the top 1.2% make $350k a year, not 250. And that's only $1500 from each of them so that every man woman and child is covered with health insurance.

And most of them own business' and they pay for our healthcare now anyways. They'll end up saving.

Now, tell me how it won't work and how the for profits are doing such a great job now.

PS. While you cry for the rich, do you remember what gas was this time last year? $4 a gallon. Today its under $2.50 a gallon. So they didn't mind spreading our wealth to the oil companies. And healthcare thinks they can get away with it even on the Dems watch?

Maybe they can. You better hope they paid Max Baucus enough to stop whats coming.

first of all sealy I'm not under some foolish impression that "rich" people as you put will foot the bill for your healthcare. The people who will are small business and there is a price to pay for that, 7 out 10 small business owners file their income tax returns as individuals. So those are the people that will be paying for your healthcare, they are also the same people who create around 90% of the new jobs in this country. So as a small business owner let me tell you what I am going to do, one is unless mandated I carry it for those who work for me, I will immediatly cancel the health insurance for those who work for me and send them to to Govt. plan and take their deductables and put that back into their paychecks. The extra taxes I pay if it effects my business , then I will lay people off or cut back on hours. That is the effect of your free healthcare. So what you have accomplished is more people on Govt. healthcare, raised my taxes, and put people out of work and put your Govt. in debt. As for the $ 4.00 a gallon gas , a good reason for your party not to pass that other stupid bill cap and trade. Let me see last year, oh yes, the dems were in charge of congress then too. What kind of energy bill did we get last year? none! In fact during the middle of your 4.00 a gallon gas your party leaders shut the lights off in congress to go home and campaign for your president and leave you to your 4.00 a gallon gas . So much for the compassion. As for who will and who won't vote for it, doesn't matter those that do simply regulate this nation further to 3rd world status sooner.
 
I get a chuckle from all of you here that buy into this let the "rich" pay for it mantra. If you think for one moment that 250K and above represents "rich" then you all are in for a very big surpirse. I would suggest each of you walk into the local pizza franchise or coffee franchise and ask the owner of they consider themsleves "rich" because those are the people that you are talking about paying for your healthcare here. Further, if this nonsense passes., and you go and expect to get service and suffendly find that the same pizza place or coffee joint that you once visited all the time is no longer there or the service is bad because they have few employee's just remember that your healthcare insurance is what you traded for that. I've said this many times and will continue to say it, wealthy people that have enough liquid assets to avoid any of this nonsense will do so, so the "rich" you target are actually hard working people that have done nothing more that achieve success. Think if of it this way, the Doctor you are all screaming that the Govt. give you free of charge is the very same person you are asking to be taxed to pay for it. Further, All of you who promote this idea, you have my sympathy for the country you will leave our children and grandchildren. I do hope your all proud of yourselves to lead a nation that once was the beacon for an entire world to one that will be just another nation that will be begging the wealthy nations for a handout.

not that i am for this or against this....i have no comment yet, till i find out more...

BUT what you just said is NOT correct about the pizza guy....small business owner....

the OVER AND ABOVE $250,000 that would be taxed 5% more, is PURE PROFIT, what he pockets for himself, AFTER ALL BILLS are PAID for his business....including his rent, cost of goods, payroll, payroll taxes, health care, energy costs etc....

it won't hurt the business in the scenario you mentioned about the pizza guy....

besides the fact, that there are so many ways for him to use that business's profit, that would reduce his tax obligation that i'm not certain the obama team has gotten right, the money they THINK they will pull in from this measure....
 
I get a chuckle from all of you here that buy into this let the "rich" pay for it mantra. If you think for one moment that 250K and above represents "rich" then you all are in for a very big surpirse. I would suggest each of you walk into the local pizza franchise or coffee franchise and ask the owner of they consider themsleves "rich" because those are the people that you are talking about paying for your healthcare here. Further, if this nonsense passes., and you go and expect to get service and suffendly find that the same pizza place or coffee joint that you once visited all the time is no longer there or the service is bad because they have few employee's just remember that your healthcare insurance is what you traded for that. I've said this many times and will continue to say it, wealthy people that have enough liquid assets to avoid any of this nonsense will do so, so the "rich" you target are actually hard working people that have done nothing more that achieve success. Think if of it this way, the Doctor you are all screaming that the Govt. give you free of charge is the very same person you are asking to be taxed to pay for it. Further, All of you who promote this idea, you have my sympathy for the country you will leave our children and grandchildren. I do hope your all proud of yourselves to lead a nation that once was the beacon for an entire world to one that will be just another nation that will be begging the wealthy nations for a handout.

They don't take home $250K a year. If they do, then they are "rich". And the top 1.2% make $350k a year, not 250. And that's only $1500 from each of them so that every man woman and child is covered with health insurance.

And most of them own business' and they pay for our healthcare now anyways. They'll end up saving.

Now, tell me how it won't work and how the for profits are doing such a great job now.

PS. While you cry for the rich, do you remember what gas was this time last year? $4 a gallon. Today its under $2.50 a gallon. So they didn't mind spreading our wealth to the oil companies. And healthcare thinks they can get away with it even on the Dems watch?

Maybe they can. You better hope they paid Max Baucus enough to stop whats coming.

first of all sealy I'm not under some foolish impression that "rich" people as you put will foot the bill for your healthcare. The people who will are small business and there is a price to pay for that, 7 out 10 small business owners file their income tax returns as individuals. So those are the people that will be paying for your healthcare, they are also the same people who create around 90% of the new jobs in this country. So as a small business owner let me tell you what I am going to do, one is unless mandated I carry it for those who work for me, I will immediatly cancel the health insurance for those who work for me and send them to to Govt. plan and take their deductables and put that back into their paychecks. The extra taxes I pay if it effects my business , then I will lay people off or cut back on hours. That is the effect of your free healthcare. So what you have accomplished is more people on Govt. healthcare, raised my taxes, and put people out of work and put your Govt. in debt. As for the $ 4.00 a gallon gas , a good reason for your party not to pass that other stupid bill cap and trade. Let me see last year, oh yes, the dems were in charge of congress then too. What kind of energy bill did we get last year? none! In fact during the middle of your 4.00 a gallon gas your party leaders shut the lights off in congress to go home and campaign for your president and leave you to your 4.00 a gallon gas . So much for the compassion. As for who will and who won't vote for it, doesn't matter those that do simply regulate this nation further to 3rd world status sooner.

I don't want upper middle class people to pay for it. I'm talking $350K a year plus.

Most RICH people don't even show making that much. They are too smart for that. So if you are showing that much income??? God knows what you really make.


But you saved money by not having to pay for employees healthcare. Its a big expense. The $1500 you pay on your $350k is NOTHING compared to what you will save. I know, too good to be true. But the status quo is unacceptable and the right didn't address it when it was their watch. That means they don't want change.

Energy bill? With Bush/Cheney in charge? You think the Dems would even try with those guys in charge?
 
I get a chuckle from all of you here that buy into this let the "rich" pay for it mantra. If you think for one moment that 250K and above represents "rich" then you all are in for a very big surpirse. I would suggest each of you walk into the local pizza franchise or coffee franchise and ask the owner of they consider themsleves "rich" because those are the people that you are talking about paying for your healthcare here. Further, if this nonsense passes., and you go and expect to get service and suffendly find that the same pizza place or coffee joint that you once visited all the time is no longer there or the service is bad because they have few employee's just remember that your healthcare insurance is what you traded for that. I've said this many times and will continue to say it, wealthy people that have enough liquid assets to avoid any of this nonsense will do so, so the "rich" you target are actually hard working people that have done nothing more that achieve success. Think if of it this way, the Doctor you are all screaming that the Govt. give you free of charge is the very same person you are asking to be taxed to pay for it. Further, All of you who promote this idea, you have my sympathy for the country you will leave our children and grandchildren. I do hope your all proud of yourselves to lead a nation that once was the beacon for an entire world to one that will be just another nation that will be begging the wealthy nations for a handout.

not that i am for this or against this....i have no comment yet, till i find out more...

BUT what you just said is NOT correct about the pizza guy....small business owner....

the OVER AND ABOVE $250,000 that would be taxed 5% more, is PURE PROFIT, what he pockets for himself, AFTER ALL BILLS are PAID for his business....including his rent, cost of goods, payroll, payroll taxes, health care, energy costs etc....

it won't hurt the business in the scenario you mentioned about the pizza guy....

besides the fact, that there are so many ways for him to use that business's profit, that would reduce his tax obligation that i'm not certain the obama team has gotten right, the money they THINK they will pull in from this measure....

I think he knows that but every once in awhile it is just easier to use fear than it is logic.

I'll lay people off. It'll raise the prices. People won't be able to afford. WAAA!!!!!

Sorry Navy.
 
No need to apologize for passion on an issue, however, I'm stating a fact of what we have planned here. Now granted I only employ 4 people however, I would like to continue to employ them. That is my plan should this healthcare bill become law and is also one that has been formulated among many other small firms I speak with on a daily basis. We will simply let our employee's buy their own healthcare with the money that is currently being deducted from them at the moment. I can assure you though that anyone who has the means to will not be hurt by this and those are the wealthy people you refer too , so in the end your only going to target those that actually create most of jobs in this country. While is may sound to you like a scare tactic it is a reality of the situation. If faced with higher taxes and also having to pay for healthcare one is them is going to go it's that simple. While the effort to reduce costs in healthcare I'm 1000% in favor of, having the US Govt. provide your healthcare for you is not one of them. In fact if the Govt. would simply change a few rules and allow people to form co-ops i.e. small businesses, individuals, or even provide grants to companies wanting to get into providing health insurance for those companies, you would see an explosion of companies doing so and the cost drop dramatically. Want an example, what happend everytime Southwest Airlines drops its prices? Most every other Airline follows suit because they do not want to lose business. Such would be the case in health insurance if the Govt. was not so intent in wanting to a babysitter and do it's real job and regulate commerce.
 
More than often than not, Right wing talking points and facts are one in the same , this in one such occasion, sorry.

while upper income borrowers received nearly 40 percent of the loans.

Most Subprime Loans Went to Upper Income, Non-Minorities

So is it your contention that upper income borrowers came from underserved communities?
No Im saying their are variables , there are a strata of causes for the meltdown.
Increased CRA leading from non local sources is a serious one.

So then you admit that your source lies when it equates CRA loans with subprime loans?
 
Most Subprime Loans Went to Upper Income, Non-Minorities

So is it your contention that upper income borrowers came from underserved communities?
No Im saying their are variables , there are a strata of causes for the meltdown.
Increased CRA leading from non local sources is a serious one.

So then you admit that your source lies when it equates CRA loans with subprime loans?
No I missed that..Feel free to repost it.
 
What part don't you understand???

We pay TWICE AS MUCH per capita as every other Western democracy for healthcare and our outcomes are only as good or in some cases worst.

What part of that don't you understand???

I suppose that in your fantasy world, the price of health care in the US will magically drop as soon as the government gets even more involved.

I know, its not like Medicare is cheaper than private insurance or something :eusa_whistle:

So if you hate government healthcare so much, where is the Republican movement to get rid of Medicare?

Hell, don't ask me, ask the republicans.
 
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Pray tell how people were supposed to know that housing prices would crash?

Did you even read what he said?
Seriously, if I have a mortgage I can afford, it doesn't matter how much my house is worth, or if the value goes down. I CAN STILL AFFORD THE MORTGAGE PAYMENT REGARDLESS OF THE HOUSE VALUE.

And if you buy a house, and the price goes up and you can refinance and get the new equity in the house, you can afford that house as well.

Its like blaming people for buying a house 6 months before they lost their job. Damn people can't afford the house (in the future) so why did they buy it!

You misunderstand.
Nice try though.
 
I suppose that in your fantasy world, the price of health care in the US will magically drop as soon as the government gets even more involved.

I know, its not like Medicare is cheaper than private insurance or something :eusa_whistle:

So if you hate government healthcare so much, where is the Republican movement to get rid of Medicare?

Hell, don't ask me, ask the republicans.

They would get massacred at the polls. Because, hey, government services actually do work and save tens of thousands of lives.

So feel free to attempt to abolish medicare. :lol:
 
Did you even read what he said?
Seriously, if I have a mortgage I can afford, it doesn't matter how much my house is worth, or if the value goes down. I CAN STILL AFFORD THE MORTGAGE PAYMENT REGARDLESS OF THE HOUSE VALUE.

And if you buy a house, and the price goes up and you can refinance and get the new equity in the house, you can afford that house as well.

Its like blaming people for buying a house 6 months before they lost their job. Damn people can't afford the house (in the future) so why did they buy it!

You misunderstand.
Nice try though.

Such a brilliant rebuttal. How will you ever top that one, MM?
 

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