Military Worship of Order

[Samson]

In another thread I ran across this post:

Military men like Navy, Black Dog, Colin, RetiredGySgt worship ORDER (and legality) above all. Any soldier's secret dream is to turn the entire world into a gigantic military garrison. They abhor the lack of discipline characteristic of the civilian world.

...

They are driven by their totalitarian mentality to value ORDER and LEGALITY over MORALITY.

which in itself really wouldn't mean very much to me.

But, last night I was teaching a card gameto a couple of my son's friends that had come over, and I used the pack of US Army cards I'd picked up off a recruiter at some function/festival during the summer.

Anyway, the one of the kids (12) saw the Logo, and said, "....oh, 'Army' Cards?...." I said, yes, ARMY CARDS, expecting to get some sort of flack from an Airforce Brat, since I'm in Colorado. Instead, she said, "SOooo......you like to tell other people what to do...."

WTF? Where'd she learn that shit? I wanted to ask, but instead told her "Yeah, Now pick up your hand."

 

[☭proletarian☭]

My understanding, as a civilian, is that you listen to your commander and do as you're trained so you don't get killed because you decided to be an idiot, run into the open, and get shot.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I also listen to firefighters when they tell me to get the fuck out of the building before we all die.

I just trust that they know what they're talking about

 

[Mr Natural]

Question:

Do they still call career military people "lifers"?

 

[Samson]

My understanding, as a civilian, is that you listen to your commander and do as you're trained so you don't get killed because you decided to be an idiot, run into the open, and get shot.

But you're not 12.......um........right?

 

[Toome]

A myth perpetuated by the movies is that soldiers are mindless robots who can't move without orders issued by egomaniacal commanders.

The truth is that soldiers are trained to exercise initiative, exploit opportunities and get the job done. As General Patton put it, "never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." The essence of Army leadership is to give just enough guidance so that the lowest ranking private can accomplish the mission should everyone else get captured or killed. Micromanagement is a civilian phenomenon.

 

[Big Black Dog]

In another thread I ran across this post:

Military men like Navy, Black Dog, Colin, RetiredGySgt worship ORDER (and legality) above all. Any soldier's secret dream is to turn the entire world into a gigantic military garrison. They abhor the lack of discipline characteristic of the civilian world.

...

They are driven by their totalitarian mentality to value ORDER and LEGALITY over MORALITY.

which in itself really wouldn't mean very much to me.

But, last night I was teaching a card gameto a couple of my son's friends that had come over, and I used the pack of US Army cards I'd picked up off a recruiter at some function/festival during the summer.

Anyway, the one of the kids (12) saw the Logo, and said, "....oh, 'Army' Cards?...." I said, yes, ARMY CARDS, expecting to get some sort of flack from an Airforce Brat, since I'm in Colorado. Instead, she said, "SOooo......you like to tell other people what to do...."

WTF? Where'd she learn that shit? I wanted to ask, but instead told her "Yeah, Now pick up your hand."

Jose, whoever he is, doesn't have a clue as to what he's talking about. His statement is too stupid to even comment on....

Now, about that poor misguided child playing with the Army cards. I think it was some sort of child abuse to not inform this child that the Navy is the best branch of service!

 

[Granny]

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Depends on the military. The US military has always tried to push initiative down, as there was no fear of independent thinking.

The average US grunt was better trained in map reading and had more operational authority than the average Xussr captain.

 

[uscitizen]

Yah. Do what you are told no matter how stupid it is.
I guess I have some problem with that as I got in trouble a bit in there.

And I understand why it is that way. So the officers do not have to adjust to the situation and just follow the book. Well that and as was previously stated to keep you alive

 

[eagleseven]

In military history, initiative of the individual soldiers, their officers, and the generals, varied greatly from period to period, and from army to army.

For example, during the Dark Ages and Middle Ages, discipline was at a minimum, even among knights, and simply convincing your peasant levies to charge en masse was quite a feat.

By the beginning of the Renaissance, improved income allowed for the development of professional armies, with highly disciplined, highly controlled formations. This culminated with mindless, tight formations of the Napoleonic era, where Generals moved men around like lines on a topographic map.

This began to change during the Crimean and later American Civil Wars, as poor lines of communication and massive armies resulted in lower-ranking generals, and COs, to display more initiative.

In WWI, as mass formation gave way to trench warfare and platoon-level action, CO initiative was at an all-time high, especially given the inability for generals to determine conditions at the front.

By WWII, the German Blitzkrieg relied heavily upon NCO initiativeand before long, all major combatants were relying upon their NCOs to make tactics decisions. Whereas sergeants once kept men in formation, firing by rank, in WWII they were making the decision to advance, hold ground, or temporarily withdraw.

Fast forward to today, where we have highly mobile combined-arms brigades being the principle unit on the battlefield, individual soldier initiative has become paramount. Nowhere is this focus more clear than in the US Future Force Warrior program, which aims to give the fireteam leaders situational awareness normally only available to command staff (GPS, Drone Recon, etc.).

 

[uscitizen]

"which aims to give the fireteam leaders situational awareness normally only available to command staff (GPS, Drone Recon, etc.)."

Yes it is designed to expand the command net. Better data and communications and situational awareness is great to have I would think.
I expect the situation is pretty well monitored so the commander can step in and give orders pretty much anytime. I think that actually we had better indepentent commands during WW2 than at any other time in recent history.

 

[Samson]

The point of the OP was more to illustrate a misunderstanding or misperception of the military that seems to have been perpetuated onto the youth: That you must be either a control freak, or some robot to be in the military.

The question is why this misperception should prevail?

 

[eagleseven]

The point of the OP was more to illustrate a misunderstanding or misperception of the military that seems to have been perpetuated onto the youth: That you must be either a control freak, or some robot to be in the military.

The question is why this misperception should prevail?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTw_ouiLCQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLTw_ouiLCQ[/ame]

Because these fools now run our schools.

 

[Samson]

The point of the OP was more to illustrate a misunderstanding or misperception of the military that seems to have been perpetuated onto the youth: That you must be either a control freak, or some robot to be in the military.

The question is why this misperception should prevail?

Because these fools now run our schools.

This was my suspicion.

I recently had a personal experience with the fools.

I'm trying to counsel one of my slaves to join the military ASAP: NOT GO TO COLLEGE.

OMG...apparently the concept is so foreign to HS counsellors that they had no idea what to do with a student who might aspire to join the National Guard when he turned 17, and spend the summer at basic training between his Junior and Senior year, and then enlist after he graduated.

Instead, they are programmed to ask students which college they would like to go to, and what course of study they would prefer.

 

[eagleseven]

This was my suspicion.

I recently had a personal experience with the fools.

I'm trying to counsel one of my slaves to join the military ASAP: NOT GO TO COLLEGE.

OMG...apparently the concept is so foreign to HS counsellors that they had no idea what to do with a student who might aspire to join the National Guard when he turned 17, and spend the summer at basic training between his Junior and Senior year, and then enlist after he graduated.

Instead, they are programmed to ask students which college they would like to go to, and what course of study they would prefer.

Been there, done that, have no use for HS counselors or psychologists, for that matter. Thankfully, the military still recruited at my HS, and many of my old friends are now on boats in the Pacific, or touring the deserts of West Asia.

You've likely already considered it, but it couldn't hurt to suggest that your slave consider ROTC/Military Academies. Granted, they are difficult to enter, but I hear great things about ROTC from my friends now in Afghanistan...and the Army desperately needs qualified officers.

Granted, the odds of seeing combat as a CO are relatively low, but if your offspring is gung-ho, Marine COs lead from the front, or so I'm told.

 

[Gunny]

In another thread I ran across this post:

Military men like Navy, Black Dog, Colin, RetiredGySgt worship ORDER (and legality) above all. Any soldier's secret dream is to turn the entire world into a gigantic military garrison. They abhor the lack of discipline characteristic of the civilian world.

...

They are driven by their totalitarian mentality to value ORDER and LEGALITY over MORALITY.

which in itself really wouldn't mean very much to me.

But, last night I was teaching a card gameto a couple of my son's friends that had come over, and I used the pack of US Army cards I'd picked up off a recruiter at some function/festival during the summer.

Anyway, the one of the kids (12) saw the Logo, and said, "....oh, 'Army' Cards?...." I said, yes, ARMY CARDS, expecting to get some sort of flack from an Airforce Brat, since I'm in Colorado. Instead, she said, "SOooo......you like to tell other people what to do...."

WTF? Where'd she learn that shit? I wanted to ask, but instead told her "Yeah, Now pick up your hand."

Joes's a 'tard. Hope that clears that part up for you.

Military personnel are trained to fight wars as cohesive units. The goal being to accomplish the mission while suffering as few casualties your unit as possible. Training and good order and discipline are essential to ANY mission. Each person has a job and each job performed correctly makes the whole thing click.

Each job performed correctly begins and ends on command. As in you can't just turn a tank battalion loose and tell them to stop when they run out of fuel and or ammo.

Giving those commands is essential. It isn't "bossing people around", nor is it prizing order and legality over morality. That's just the war cry of the undisciplined crybabies who cannot comprehend anything more complex than putting themselves above any and all.

No one in the military I ever met LIKED being "bossed around" anymore than anyone I've met outside the military. Power and control freaks exist at the same percentage within the military as exist without.

The military is not made of Martians nor Tunisian camel jockeys. It is a microcosm of our society. We all come from within and possess or lack whatever morality our society has taught us.