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wtf ???..what do you not think I am sincere...now your just looking for trouble boy...
what part was insulting the Sir or the thank you........what a dickwad
No. Your post was very ambiguous. The response could have been taken as derisive or as being in accord with military traditions. I didn't know if you were mocking or simply giving a response such as might have been given in a military context so don't jump on DiveCon. Sometimes text is extremely ambiguous, we think others know what we mean but we fail to realise that sometimes that isn't the case.
bet ya dollar gunny got it...he is a little sharper than some ot tools in the shed.....
and just in case this is a little to... ambiguous for you...I am mainly referring to divecon..but I will throw you in for good measure..........mate
No. Your post was very ambiguous. The response could have been taken as derisive or as being in accord with military traditions. I didn't know if you were mocking or simply giving a response such as might have been given in a military context so don't jump on DiveCon. Sometimes text is extremely ambiguous, we think others know what we mean but we fail to realise that sometimes that isn't the case.
bet ya dollar gunny got it...he is a little sharper than some ot tools in the shed.....
and just in case this is a little to... ambiguous for you...I am mainly referring to divecon..but I will throw you in for good measure..........mate
Do what you like, the ambiguity stands there for anyone to see. And being ambiguous ....about half will get your original meaning and about half will get the other meaning.
No need to get cranky though, stuff like this happens.
bet ya dollar gunny got it...he is a little sharper than some ot tools in the shed.....
and just in case this is a little to... ambiguous for you...I am mainly referring to divecon..but I will throw you in for good measure..........mate
Do what you like, the ambiguity stands there for anyone to see. And being ambiguous ....about half will get your original meaning and about half will get the other meaning.
No need to get cranky though, stuff like this happens.
just having fun ! ...divecon is a dickwad for about a thousand other reasons anyway....
Who are the bad guys ya'll will start shooting first, folks?
The liberal or the conservative neighbors who live next door to you, and who are being as screwed by this system as badly as YOU ARE?!
Do you really know the names of the masters and what crimes they've been commiting against our nation?
I mean really do you honestly know who is in charge and how they manipulate the nation to serve them at YOUR EXPENSE?
I don't think you do. I doubt I do, either.
I don't thinkany of us really ever will know because that's how POWER really works!
We are NOT in a position to KNOW.
The media is feeding us half truthes, and outright lies. Hell the media is being fed lies, and it takes no media conspiracy to make THAT happen.
But here's a couple clues for you all to ponder.
1. Plastering your car's with SUPPORT OUR TROOPS bumper stickers is NOT supporting the troops.
2. Buying extra guns and ammo is NOT defending the constitution.
3. THE POOR, the MIDDLE CLASS and even the WELL OFF, that means any other poor schmuch who WORKS for a living can NOT be the people who SCREWED your nation, folks.
That exactly why I refuse to participate in any revolution I am not leading, folks.
I don't trust the left or the right or the middle or the upside-down, or the inside OUT parties, either.
American could have a civil war, but I promise you it won't help one fucking bit.
All we'll end up with is a tryanny either modeled on some left leaning blather or some right leaning blather, folks.
The miserable long haul solution for American is POLTICAL and there are NO NATIONAL PARTIES any of us can trust.
The civil war some of you long for is a path leading to disaster for this nation and the people most of you pretend to love (but most obviously don't).
Every party I see is is nothing but a bunch of lying stupifyingly arrogant elites leading the terminally STUPID down a path that leads to then nowhere but MORE-OF-SAMEVILLE
I would DEARLY love to be a partisan of SOMETHING I could believe in.
Show me that party, folks.
As far as I can tell it just doesn't exist.
why do you thank him by insulting him?Interesting site. The ideal is correct. We DO swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the US, not its politicians. Further, carrying out an unlawful order is unlawful in and of itself, and it is the duty of every servicemember from all services to refuse to obey such and order and report such an unlawful order immediately.
That said, I seem to vaguely recall some rule or law that while in the US Armed Forces, servicemembers could not swear an oath of allegience to any organization that would supersede the oath of enlistment.
Where this comes into play is, just where do you draw the line between politicians and the Constitution? The Constitution, in particular the 10th Amendment, is violated daily by the Fed. Who employs the military? The Fed.
I'm impressed, eots, that you actually came up with something interesting to discus.
yes Sir !.. ..thank you..Sir !
he EARNED those stripes
Who decides if an order to the military is unconstitutional?
sheeesh, lighten up a bitwhy do you thank him by insulting him?yes Sir !.. ..thank you..Sir !
he EARNED those stripes
wtf ???..what do you not think I am sincere...now your just looking for trouble boy...
what part was insulting the Sir or the thank you........what a dickwad
uh, see thewhy do you thank him by insulting him?yes Sir !.. ..thank you..Sir !
he EARNED those stripes
why do you assume its an insult....most civies dont realize you do not address a sgt by sir....common mistake...dc i call most men sir....even knowing better i will call a sgt sir....
not as an insult but i was raised to call men..sir ...women ma'am...still do it....and i am shocked now that younger ones call me ma'am...i am so old..but they are simply being polite...
Who decides if an order to the military is unconstitutional?
Ultimately a Court would. In the mean time the troops have an obligation and a duty to refuse to obey ILLEGAL orders. EVERY American military person is TAUGHT this basic concept.
Who decides if an order to the military is unconstitutional?
Ultimately a Court would. In the mean time the troops have an obligation and a duty to refuse to obey ILLEGAL orders. EVERY American military person is TAUGHT this basic concept.
That makes sense.
I won't ask what illegal orders are, I reckon I could pretty much understand that wtihout asking for a list.
There is no defence of superior orders I assume.
Ultimately a Court would. In the mean time the troops have an obligation and a duty to refuse to obey ILLEGAL orders. EVERY American military person is TAUGHT this basic concept.
That makes sense.
I won't ask what illegal orders are, I reckon I could pretty much understand that wtihout asking for a list.
There is no defence of superior orders I assume.
Illegal orders are anything that is illegal. Things like killing unarmed civilians, etc.
That makes sense.
I won't ask what illegal orders are, I reckon I could pretty much understand that wtihout asking for a list.
There is no defence of superior orders I assume.
Illegal orders are anything that is illegal. Things like killing unarmed civilians, etc.
Thanks Amanda, I would think that's the biggest one. My Lai came to mind immediately. I'm thinking though that it - not referring to My Lai, just generalising - that for a serving member in the military to refuse an order, unless it was absolutely obviously illegal, would be pretty damn difficult. Apart from the socialisation into a culture of adherence (I won't say "obedience", I don't see military personnel as mindless automatons) to orders (which of course is necessary for any military to function) there's the threat of punishment. It would be easier just to do what you're told and try to plead superior orders later. However I presume that's no defence in the USMCJ or civilian justice system just as it isn't a defence here. Didn't work at Nuremberg either.
why do you thank him by insulting him?Interesting site. The ideal is correct. We DO swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the US, not its politicians. Further, carrying out an unlawful order is unlawful in and of itself, and it is the duty of every servicemember from all services to refuse to obey such and order and report such an unlawful order immediately.
That said, I seem to vaguely recall some rule or law that while in the US Armed Forces, servicemembers could not swear an oath of allegience to any organization that would supersede the oath of enlistment.
Where this comes into play is, just where do you draw the line between politicians and the Constitution? The Constitution, in particular the 10th Amendment, is violated daily by the Fed. Who employs the military? The Fed.
I'm impressed, eots, that you actually came up with something interesting to discus.
yes Sir !.. ..thank you..Sir !
he EARNED those stripes
why do you thank him by insulting him?
he EARNED those stripes
wtf ???..what do you not think I am sincere...now your just looking for trouble boy...
what part was insulting the Sir or the thank you........what a dickwad
No. Your post was very ambiguous. The response could have been taken as derisive or as being in accord with military traditions. I didn't know if you were mocking or simply giving a response such as might have been given in a military context so don't jump on DiveCon. Sometimes text is extremely ambiguous, we think others know what we mean but we fail to realise that sometimes that isn't the case.
That makes sense.
I won't ask what illegal orders are, I reckon I could pretty much understand that wtihout asking for a list.
There is no defence of superior orders I assume.
Illegal orders are anything that is illegal. Things like killing unarmed civilians, etc.
Thanks Amanda, I would think that's the biggest one. My Lai came to mind immediately. I'm thinking though that it - not referring to My Lai, just generalising - that for a serving member in the military to refuse an order, unless it was absolutely obviously illegal, would be pretty damn difficult. Apart from the socialisation into a culture of adherence (I won't say "obedience", I don't see military personnel as mindless automatons) to orders (which of course is necessary for any military to function) there's the threat of punishment. It would be easier just to do what you're told and try to plead superior orders later. However I presume that's no defence in the USMCJ or civilian justice system just as it isn't a defence here. Didn't work at Nuremberg either.
Illegal orders are anything that is illegal. Things like killing unarmed civilians, etc.
Thanks Amanda, I would think that's the biggest one. My Lai came to mind immediately. I'm thinking though that it - not referring to My Lai, just generalising - that for a serving member in the military to refuse an order, unless it was absolutely obviously illegal, would be pretty damn difficult. Apart from the socialisation into a culture of adherence (I won't say "obedience", I don't see military personnel as mindless automatons) to orders (which of course is necessary for any military to function) there's the threat of punishment. It would be easier just to do what you're told and try to plead superior orders later. However I presume that's no defence in the USMCJ or civilian justice system just as it isn't a defence here. Didn't work at Nuremberg either.
That is why I have some respect for the LT. that refused to deploy to Iraq. He claimed, incorrectly, that it was an illegal order. Rather then run off to Canada he refused his orders and demanded a day in Court.
I do not think deserters are worth much and I think the LT was absolutely wrong, BUT he did it the RIGHT way. He refused what he believed to be illegal orders. He did not slink off to another country to avoid his duty.
Personally I think they should have put him in jail for as long as was allowed for the offense. But in the end the First Judge screwed the pouch and he basically got off with just a discharge.
If the Government ever tries to grab our weapons they will have to employ the military and at that point each and every member of said military will have to decide if the Presidents orders are more binding then the US Constitution.
Even if somehow they pass an Amendment to repel the 2nd there will be fighting if the Government tries to seize arms. Editec can pretend it won't happen all he wants. Initially it will be single individuals or families resisting but it will quickly blossom into open rebellion as the rest hastily organize and members of the local and State police refuse to obey the orders. Then the military will be faced with firing on American citizens or refusing.
Illegal orders are anything that is illegal. Things like killing unarmed civilians, etc.
Thanks Amanda, I would think that's the biggest one. My Lai came to mind immediately. I'm thinking though that it - not referring to My Lai, just generalising - that for a serving member in the military to refuse an order, unless it was absolutely obviously illegal, would be pretty damn difficult. Apart from the socialisation into a culture of adherence (I won't say "obedience", I don't see military personnel as mindless automatons) to orders (which of course is necessary for any military to function) there's the threat of punishment. It would be easier just to do what you're told and try to plead superior orders later. However I presume that's no defence in the USMCJ or civilian justice system just as it isn't a defence here. Didn't work at Nuremberg either.
I think that's why having your own head in order is a must. For me, I would be more than happy to serve prison time if I knew what I was doing was right. I think most people that join are doing it for principled reasons, so I think that's why we don't hear a lot about gross abuse of power.
