militants vow conquor rome and slit catholics throats

[Dr Grump]

And how is Christianity affecting your daily life ? Messing it up something terrible?

Doesn't affect me one iota....

 

[dilloduck]

Doesn't affect me one iota....

Then why don't you rant about something else that does ?

 

[Dr Grump]

Then why don't you rant about something else that does ?

I never rant about Christianity. I just don't want it put in legislation. That is all I have ever said about it.

 

[Kagom]

From the French news I saw the youths were saying what a bunch of arseholes the gendarmes were and that was about it. Not one mentioned Islam. The media make it out to be a Muslim issue and therefore interview those organisations (whose down pat answers you and I could give), and then they ask the citizens and non-Muslims (again, you and I could give the down pat answers), but the reality was it wasn't a Muslim thing. You get these riots in many places. The Brixton riots in London in the 1980s were West Indians (mainly), didn't Chicago have a big riot in the 60s??...When you see "over and over we see the same" what do you mean? What other western countries have had Muslims riot due to them being militants and trying to convert the rest of the country??

60's riots were over DNC and political things. Apart of Nixon's dirty tricks of memory serves correctly

 

[glockmail]

It fell twice. It has been in plenty of wars where it never fell at all. What France is experiencing is an immigrant population that feels it is being marginalised, and from links a provided in the previous post, it seems that could be true. Unemployment, thinking you are a second-class citizen etc are bound to have negative effects on a society. Being Muslim is secondary, or not even an issue IMO.

France hasn't been strong in over a century, and has shown to be weakening increasingly. Muslims attack the weak; hence the current situation. The remainder of Europe is next.

 

[dilloduck]

I never rant about Christianity. I just don't want it put in legislation. That is all I have ever said about it.

Bullshit---

I think radical Christianity and Islam want to duke it out...I say stick them all on an island, give 'em as much ammo as they want....it'll be a pyrric victory at best for the winner...then the rest of us can get about our daily business....

 

[Dr Grump]

Bullshit---

Wow...you quoted a real super dooper rant there...

 

[Dr Grump]

France hasn't been strong in over a century, and has shown to be weakening increasingly. Muslims attack the weak; hence the current situation. The remainder of Europe is next.

French society is fine relatively speaking. Has the same problem as any society. Radical Islam is hardly on the radar...

 

[LuvRPgrl]

French society is fine relatively speaking. Has the same problem as any society. Radical Islam is hardly on the radar...

Yea, thats what they were saying in 1939

 

[Gunny]

Probably for the same reason Chicken Little's like you see them as a threat. They aren't. Show me any tangible evidence that there has been any significant change in Western society due to Islam. hint: there hasn't. It is people like you and Cocky who like to get people in a lather over nothing. Sure there are bad muslims, but there are bad people everywhere. The media doesn't help. Outside of Iraq, more non-muslims are murdered by other non-muslims in the US alone each year, let alone the rest of the western world. It reminds me of a doco on the media I saw five years ago. It was showing how they manipulate a situation. One instance really sticks out. It was in India and showed a Hindu "riot." There was this woman on top of a step ladder yelilng and screaming and getting everybody around her in a frenzy. And I tell you what, they were in a huge frenzy. About 100 of them. Then the camera panned back. There were about 10,000 people there. The other 9,900 odd were just standing there doing nothing, but if the camera had not panned back people would have been left with the impression that there was a huge riot. I see you guys treating Islam the same. It is a crappy religion for sure - the worst even, but the vast majority 99.9% are OK. How many extremist muslims are there? 40,000? 100,000? There are over 1,000,000,000 in the world. The idiots are hardly a drop in the bucket, but you guys like to make them out to be the norm. They are not. And for you Looney Libs who give the Islam fanatics a free pass, see the movie Osama (Osama is a fictional story about a 14 year old girl living under the Taliban, it's not about You Know Who)...

YOu really DO live with your head stuck in the ground, don't you? And your "if it doesn't affect me here and now it doesn't matter" attitude makes you just about as worthless a member of this society as there can be. As I stated previously, it takes a dude with a bath towel on his and an AK-47 in his hands standing on your front porch before a problem is perceived.

People who think like you have made each and every war we have ever fought a hundred times harder than it should have been simply becuase you refuse to acknowledge a problem until iot suckerpunches your ass and you're left sitting in on the grass in your righteous indignation.

 

[roomy]

I just wonder what it has to do before complete freakin' morons, such as a few we know and DON'T love, get a clue? Does it take some raghead with an AK-47 on the front step?

Your eulogies and your procrastinations become lost in translation, calm down and and try to empathise, maybe then we could embrace most of what you say, as it is I am stuck at 50/50.

 

[Said1]

I am stuck at 50/50.

Half in the bag?

 

[Annie]

From the French news I saw the youths were saying what a bunch of arseholes the gendarmes were and that was about it. Not one mentioned Islam. The media make it out to be a Muslim issue and therefore interview those organisations (whose down pat answers you and I could give), and then they ask the citizens and non-Muslims (again, you and I could give the down pat answers), but the reality was it wasn't a Muslim thing. You get these riots in many places. The Brixton riots in London in the 1980s were West Indians (mainly), didn't Chicago have a big riot in the 60s??...When you see "over and over we see the same" what do you mean? What other western countries have had Muslims riot due to them being militants and trying to convert the rest of the country??

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26654&highlight=france+riots

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26638&highlight=france+riots

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26653&highlight=france+riots

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26634&highlight=france+riots

That's a start. There are more, if you are interested. The above are related to the topic. Europe has a problem, France and the Netherlands are the canaries.

 

[Dr Grump]

YOu really DO live with your head stuck in the ground, don't you? And your "if it doesn't affect me here and now it doesn't matter" attitude makes you just about as worthless a member of this society as there can be.

As opposed to your "I'll take a few militant Muslims and make them out to be a threat to world peace" overreaction making you a warmonger??

As I stated previously, it takes a dude with a bath towel on his and an AK-47 in his hands standing on your front porch before a problem is perceived.

No, it takes them to be an ongoing threat on a daily basis, or even weekly, or even monthly...which they are not. People died every day durign WWII due to fighting. How many western people are killed in western countries every day, week or month by militant muslims? How many were killed today? This past week? This past month?

People who think like you have made each and every war we have ever fought a hundred times harder than it should have been simply becuase you refuse to acknowledge a problem until iot suckerpunches your ass and you're left sitting in on the grass in your righteous indignation.

That's because people like me think certain wars (Iraq and Viet Nam would be two of those wars) are nobody's business but the countries involved and US servicmen and women's lives are not worth it. The Viet Cong never suckerpunched anybody stateside and sat them on their arse..ditto Cambodia. Militant Islam is a problem...but it's not a big one....

 

[LuvRPgrl]

As opposed to your "I'll take a few militant Muslims and make them out to be a threat to world peace" overreaction making you a warmonger??



No, it takes them to be an ongoing threat on a daily basis, or even weekly, or even monthly...which they are not. People died every day durign WWII due to fighting. How many western people are killed in western countries every day, week or month by militant muslims? How many were killed today? This past week? This past month?



That's because people like me think certain wars (Iraq and Viet Nam would be two of those wars) are nobody's business but the countries involved and US servicmen and women's lives are not worth it. The Viet Cong never suckerpunched anybody stateside and sat them on their arse..ditto Cambodia. Militant Islam is a problem...but it's not a big one....

so you dont care if Iran is allowed to go unfettered in obtaining nukes?

 

[Dr Grump]

so you dont care if Iran is allowed to go unfettered in obtaining nukes?

That's a different kettle of fish. Do you care? If so, why? If not, why?

 

[red states rule]

That's a different kettle of fish. Do you care? If so, why? If not, why?

Christianity: The Ultimate Evil
The UNITED States of America. United we stand, divided we fall. Yet frighteningly, America is more divided than ever. Economic disparity, religious extremism, and Bush's cowboy "For Us Or Against Us" policies have driven a wedge right through the very heart of this once great nation. If the main message from the DNC rings true (and it does), then the greatest threat to our freedom lies not in some mosque in Mecca, but in a simple church in the Bible Belt.

The time has come for all patriotic Americans to unite under a common cause: getting rid of the Christians. Not all Christians, mind you - just the ones whose religious beliefs interefere with our political agenda - i.e. Christian Fundamentalists. Their backwards, outdated belief system is based on unwavering moral absolutes, which only alienate those enlightened Americans who have no morals at all. Ironically, these so-called "morals" Christians claim to possess aren't even true morals, as they stem not from a Noam Chomsky pamphlet or a Michael Moore film - but from some silly old book they found in a motel room dresser.

This ignorant Christian self-righteousness makes it next to impossible to reason with these people. Try getting a right-winger to fund homoerotic photography or a feces-smeared Virgin Mary with his tax dollars. Try explaining the joys of partial-birth abortion to some religious nut who worships an invisible diety in the sky more than a Woman's Right to Choose. Try talking a nun out of her habit for a few quick polaroids. Heck, try getting a "Born Again" gal into the sack without a marriage license and a big stinking committment! You can't even smoke some crack and have sex with your dog in the front yard without the fundamentalist neighbors screaming "Stop that! Stop that!". Intolerant by nature, self-righteous to the extreme, Christians are ruled by hatred and bigotry - and the sooner we're rid of them the better.

Now before you start sending in the hate mail, I'm not advocating violence against Christians - at least, not officially. *Wink wink, nudge nudge.* For the time being, we'll continue to simply mock and ridicule them for the self-righteous, hateful bigots they are - while graciously granting them the gift of our tolerance and understanding. But if they take advantage of that gift by stopping one single abortion, it's onto the metaphorical box cars with them! Our French friends have been handling their "Jewish problem" this way quite effectively, and the little kippers are fleeing the Mother Country in droves.

After we've rid ourselves of the Christian menace, we'll go after those whose divisiveness lies in their refusal to divide up their loot: the evil rich. That'll be fairly easy - they only comprise a small portion of the population and we've managed to demonize them to great success already. However, while the wealthy don't represent a sizeable voting block, they still manage to use their vast resources to support candidates who won't fuck them up the ass. That's why in a new united America, they'll have no resources at all. By simultaneously imposing confiscatory taxation on their greedy asses while preventing them from fleeing the country to avoid getting fucked up the ass, we'll take the power out of the hands of the CEO's and put it back where it belongs: in the hands of the workers. Well, the union workers, anyway. Or at least, the union leaders who speak for them. And the politicians who speak for the union leaders. But nevermind that - what matters is that Grandma's starving and little Billy can't afford his medical bills all because a few billionaires choose to hoard their riches in great big vaults so they can swim around in their ocean of money and not let their nephew Donald have even one measly little penny. No more. Not in MY America!

Finally, once we've forced all the evil Christians and the greedy rich to stop polarizing the country, we'll take care of the idealogues - or, anyone whose idealogy is different than ours. Because while we insist on tolerance and diversity, we simply can't tolerate diversity of opinions. If we're ever going to unify the nation, if we're ever going to realize Dr. King's dream of free love and free drugs, we must be of one mind, one purpose, one will.

Join us in this cause. Let's make America stronger at home and respected in the world. Let's ensure that once again, in our one America — our one America — tomorrow will always be better than today.

Resistance is futile.

http://blamebush.typepad.com/blamebush/2004/07/one_nation_indi.html

 

[Gunny]

As opposed to your "I'll take a few militant Muslims and make them out to be a threat to world peace" overreaction making you a warmonger??

You downplay the threat every bit as much as you exaggerate my position. There is no "few," and I am hardly a warmonger. Try participating in one and maybe you'll figure out what my position is.

The fact is, any and all means of coexistence and diplomacy have been tried for centuries and all have failed. When the talking's done, it's time to rectify a shitty situation. It doesn't get any simpler than THAT.


No, it takes them to be an ongoing threat on a daily basis, or even weekly, or even monthly...which they are not. People died every day durign WWII due to fighting. How many western people are killed in western countries every day, week or month by militant muslims? How many were killed today? This past week? This past month?

They ARE a threat on a daily, monthly, and or weekly basis. They have been a threat for CENTURIES. It must be nice to live in a world of your own making where you can ignore the blatantly obvious because it suits your whimsical ideology.


That's because people like me think certain wars (Iraq and Viet Nam would be two of those wars) are nobody's business but the countries involved and US servicmen and women's lives are not worth it. The Viet Cong never suckerpunched anybody stateside and sat them on their arse..ditto Cambodia. Militant Islam is a problem...but it's not a big one....

Wake up, dude. Militant Islam is driving the ENTIRE Islam train right now and it is people like you who allow it to grow and become powerful. The recurring theme here is rather than confront a problem that has been a problem for centuries and will continue to be a problem UNTIL confronted, you'll wait until it's a hundred or a thousand times harder to deal with and beating down your door before energizing your ass to actually do something. Piss-poor tactics, period.

I don't how the VC worked their way in here, but just in case you have forgotten or weren't around at the time, Communism was perceived as a global threat, and even though it finally died out, it cost the world millions of lives and dollars during its run.

However, I consider your comparing an ideology that didn't last even a century to one that has lasted in its stagnant form since the 7th century an irrelevant comparison.

 

[cranston36]

In the middle of September, 2006 Pope Benedict of the Catholic Church made a speech at the University in Regensburg, Germany.
The core of the speech has been characterized as a criticism of modern western civilization for committing itself too much to reason and cutting God out of science and philosophy.
Ian Fisher of the New York Times said that Pope Benedict started out ‘by recounting a conversation on the truths of Christianity and Islam that took place between a 14th- century Byzantine Christian emperor, Manuel II Paleologus, and a Persian scholar.’
Even the New York Times seems to have gotten the message wrong that Pope Benedict was sending.
Pope Benedict did not start by recounting the conversation. The quotation that caused the stir was far into the speech but that is only a minor point.
He was speaking about how reason has polluted faith to such an extent that the message of peace that Jesus brought was being lost in modern society. In fact the speech contained elements of his inaugural lecture at the University in Bonn from 1959.
It is a speech of love, the message of Jesus, the word of God and of and for humanity.
The media reported on a reference to a statement made by Emperor Manuel II Paleologus hundreds of years ago and sparked off a bitter response from the Muslim community around the world.
I am going to begin this evening with a short history so that we have a background for Emperor Paleologus.
The Fall of the Roman Empire took place over a long period of time. During one period the Empire broke into two pieces. There was the western empire which fragmented further into several countries like France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Portugal - et cetera with a central church whose head of state was in Rome.
The Eastern Empire retained its government and shape but was slowly over run by barbarians from the north and the Muslims from the east who were considered savages at the time.
Eventually the capital of the Eastern Empire at Byzantium was conquered and the Eastern Emperor, of which Manuel II was one of the last, ceased to be a governing power. The Eastern Churches are called Orthodox and range from the Greek Orthodox to the Russian Orthodox with other churches formed from what were formerly mainly Roman provinces.
Each of these orthodox churches has a different internal governing system and until Pope John Paul II made overtures they did not even speak to the Catholic Church in Rome.
During the Fall of the Western Empire a pantheon of gods was replaced by belief in the One True God. Much of the material from that time was preserved and passed down through the ages to the present day. Much of it was also destroyed.
Some of the most holy places in Rome to Catholics were once the same places used to worship Apollo, Diana, Zeus and Hera. Those are the ancient gods of Rome. Their statues were moved it of the buildings and the interiors redesigned to reflect the Catholic faith. A lot of this art is still in existence.
To the east of the Roman Empire - to the east of the Eastern Empire in fact, was in ancient times a nation called the Parthian Empire. After much fighting the Parthian Empire eventually ended up as the Persian Empire.
What happened when Mohammad came along was more bitter, divisive and destructive than the slow and thorough absorption of the old Roman religions by the Catholic religion.
Mohammad declared a campaign of destruction. When the Muslims entered Riyadh they attacked the pantheon of the Parthian or Persian Empire. They destroyed every statue and image they found. The priests were killed along with faithful trying to make a defense. Families were destroyed, the city burned and all the wealth and weapons taken for the continued fury of the spread of the Muslim faith.
The result is that the Muslim faith seemingly has no memory. There was a complete and willful break from the past which, rather than supplanting what was before it replaced it with another more insecure and fragile arrangement. Where local Parthian or Persian tax payers used to collect money now armed priests called Imams collected what is referred to as the ‘poor-tax’ which finds its way these days rarely to the tables of the poor and more often to the makers of guns, rockets and mortars. Osama Bin Laden for example had access to billions of dollars and rather than using it for constructive projects he used it to attack the World Trade Center in order to disrupt trade.
Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia and other governments controlled in this way whine to the west about helping the poor while they sit on oil, gold, silver, tin and other natural resources controlled by a few religious leaders as in Iran or by Kings and princes as in Morocco, Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
It was a terrible time and unlike the slow change that took place in Rome it has never seemed to end. In fact the same behavior that the early Muslims showed to the art and culture of their own people was repeated when the Muslim Taliban in Afghanistan destroyed the 18 story tall statues of Buddha with dynamite.
This sort of destructive, irresponsible behavior was echoed again when a Danish cartoonist drew a caricature of Mohammed wearing a bomb for a hat.
These are two well known incidents in modern times but the destructive behavior has been repeated time and time again through history. Muslims sometimes say it is to defend their faith but lately it has started to seem a little like the fanaticism of men like Billy Sunday and Billy Graham who pull an enemy out of the hat so the donations of the faithful will keep pouring in.
The problem is that the violence that is unleashed through the old interpretation of the Koran is extreme.
Now to return to modern times. What exactly did Pope Benedict say?
Here it is. The Pope is referencing an edited text of Emperor Paleologus’s remarks :
"But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur’an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels," he turns to his interlocutor somewhat brusquely with the central question on the relationship between religion and violence in general, in these words:
Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.
The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul.
God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death....
The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature. ""

The sentence that drove the Muslim world into a blood frenzy is : "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
The press did not dwell on the next sentence which reads, "The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul."

The response of the Muslim community was almost instant. As if they had been sitting in wait for anything to set them off. If their reaction had not been so violent, apparently unthinking and illogical it might have been humorous.
But several people died apparently as a result of their reaction.
The onus was put back on Pope Benedict and it was intimated that his remarks caused the violence. I heard one radio talk show host on a local religious radio station in Detroit talk about the ‘behavior’ of the Pope and yet she admitted that she had not seen the text of the speech. She was acting just like the Muslim fanatics that opposed him. The text was available online at that time but this Christian fanatic decided to remark on items she did not take the time to investigate.
The problem for the Muslim world is that even though he did not intend to paint the modern Muslim religion as bloodthirsty and violent the response and reaction from Muslim leaders around the world can only lead a responsible, logical adult to conclude that this may be so.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6362/713/1600/Popd3.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6362/713/1600/Popd17.jpg

 

[glockmail]

French society is fine relatively speaking. .....

Lemme see:
1. Last summer riots in Paris. How many cars were burned? How many people were killed?
2. Summer before that heat waves killed hundreds of old people who did not have AC in their fetid apartments.

This is just quick off the top of my head. Do you need more examples to alter your sense of reality of this "fine" country?