Middle Class Law Suit for being forced to subsidize the Rich with taxes.

[KissMy]

The Middle Class should a class action law suit against Plutocrats & the Rich for being forced to subsidize the Rich with taxes. Strip them of the wealth they have acquired via the tax subsidy, racketeering & unfair business trade practice. Are there any lawyers here that will help file?

Facts from the IRS: From 2001 to 2007 the people with the highest income got the biggest percentage cuts in their actual tax payments. The middle class had to subsidize the rich even more than before. It is time to end the tax subsidy to the rich. The middle class is tired of carrying your fat ass along with the poor. Get off the back of the Middle Class & help us carry the poor.

If a rich person Mitt Romney only pays 13% & a middle class person KissMy pays 28%, the middle class is subsidizing the rich.

It is the same as when tax on ethanol was 25 cents a gallon & gasoline tax was 45 cents a gallon. You people screamed that we were subsidizing ethanol even when ethanol was being taxed.

There is no way in hell a middle class person paying 28% tax can produce widgets cheaper than a rich person only paying 13% tax. This tax rate causes the middle class to go out of business & the rich takes over the entire market. The middle class business owner & workers are forced into poverty & onto the government dole that the rich refuses to pay for.

 

[Sallow]

It's nice to dream..

 

[Oddball]

Seems to me you should be bitching about the taxes on wages and salaries being too high, not investment and cap gains incomes (which is what most retirees live off of) being too low.

Hmmmm?

 

[martybegan]

The Middle Class should a class action law suit against Plutocrats & the Rich for being forced to subsidize the Rich with taxes. Strip them of the wealth they have acquired via the tax subsidy, racketeering & unfair business trade practice. Are there any lawyers here that will help file?

Facts from the IRS: From 2001 to 2007 the people with the highest income got the biggest percentage cuts in their actual tax payments. The middle class had to subsidize the rich even more than before. It is time to end the tax subsidy to the rich. The middle class is tired of carrying your fat ass along with the poor. Get off the back of the Middle Class & help us carry the poor.

If a rich person Mitt Romney only pays 13% & a middle class person KissMy pays 28%, the middle class is subsidizing the rich.

It is the same as when tax on ethanol was 25 cents a gallon & gasoline tax was 45 cents a gallon. You people screamed that we were subsidizing ethanol even when ethanol was being taxed.

There is no way in hell a middle class person paying 28% tax can produce widgets cheaper than a rich person only paying 13% tax. This tax rate causes the middle class to go out of business & the rich takes over the entire market. The middle class business owner & workers are forced into poverty & onto the government dole that the rich refuses to pay for.

How is it subsidizing when the rich person is still paying multiples in actual cash value in taxes than said middle class person.

I thought taxes were to create revenue for government, not a pissing contest to see who pays what percentage.

Government is paid for by money, not percentages.

 

[KissMy]

How is it subsidizing when the rich person is still paying multiples in actual cash value in taxes than said middle class person.

I thought taxes were to create revenue for government, not a pissing contest to see who pays what percentage.

Government is paid for by money, not percentages.

Well you THOUGHT WRONG!

Subsidy Definition from Merriam Webster Dictionary:

Financial assistance, either through direct payments or through indirect means such as price cuts and favorable contracts, to a person or group in order to promote a public objective. Subsidies to transportation, housing, agriculture, mining, and other industries have been instituted on the grounds that their preservation or expansion is in the public interest. Subsidies to the arts, sciences, humanities, and religion also exist in many nations where the private economy is unable to support them. Examples of direct subsidies include payments in cash or in kind, while more-indirect subsidies include governmental provision of goods or services at prices below the normal market price, governmental purchase of goods or services at prices above the market price, and tax concessions. Although subsidies exist to promote the public welfare, they result in either higher taxes or higher prices for consumer goods. Some subsidies, such as protective tariffs, may also encourage the preservation of inefficient producers. A subsidy is desirable only if its effects increase total benefits more than total costs.

 

[martybegan]

How is it subsidizing when the rich person is still paying multiples in actual cash value in taxes than said middle class person.

I thought taxes were to create revenue for government, not a pissing contest to see who pays what percentage.

Government is paid for by money, not percentages.

Well you THOUGHT WRONG!

Subsidy Definition from Merriam Webster Dictionary:

Financial assistance, either through direct payments or through indirect means such as price cuts and favorable contracts, to a person or group in order to promote a public objective. Subsidies to transportation, housing, agriculture, mining, and other industries have been instituted on the grounds that their preservation or expansion is in the public interest. Subsidies to the arts, sciences, humanities, and religion also exist in many nations where the private economy is unable to support them. Examples of direct subsidies include payments in cash or in kind, while more-indirect subsidies include governmental provision of goods or services at prices below the normal market price, governmental purchase of goods or services at prices above the market price, and tax concessions. Although subsidies exist to promote the public welfare, they result in either higher taxes or higher prices for consumer goods. Some subsidies, such as protective tariffs, may also encourage the preservation of inefficient producers. A subsidy is desirable only if its effects increase total benefits more than total costs.

ooh! a dictonary definition! That really defines policy...

Again, taxation is to finance the government. It is not to create social policy, or create a measure of fairness.

To me taxation is about money. Rich people pay more of it, each one supporting multiple lower paying taxpayers. It is the rich that subsidize the less well off in our government. That is the whole concept of a progressive tax system. If a person pays 100x the average tax bill, THEY are subsidizing the other 99 people, no matter what percentage they pay.

 

[KissMy]

How is it subsidizing when the rich person is still paying multiples in actual cash value in taxes than said middle class person.

I thought taxes were to create revenue for government, not a pissing contest to see who pays what percentage.

Government is paid for by money, not percentages.

Well you THOUGHT WRONG!

Subsidy Definition from Merriam Webster Dictionary:

Financial assistance, either through direct payments or through indirect means such as price cuts and favorable contracts, to a person or group in order to promote a public objective. Subsidies to transportation, housing, agriculture, mining, and other industries have been instituted on the grounds that their preservation or expansion is in the public interest. Subsidies to the arts, sciences, humanities, and religion also exist in many nations where the private economy is unable to support them. Examples of direct subsidies include payments in cash or in kind, while more-indirect subsidies include governmental provision of goods or services at prices below the normal market price, governmental purchase of goods or services at prices above the market price, and tax concessions. Although subsidies exist to promote the public welfare, they result in either higher taxes or higher prices for consumer goods. Some subsidies, such as protective tariffs, may also encourage the preservation of inefficient producers. A subsidy is desirable only if its effects increase total benefits more than total costs.

ooh! a dictonary definition! That really defines policy...

Again, taxation is to finance the government. It is not to create social policy, or create a measure of fairness.

To me taxation is about money. Rich people pay more of it, each one supporting multiple lower paying taxpayers. It is the rich that subsidize the less well off in our government. That is the whole concept of a progressive tax system. If a person pays 100x the average tax bill, THEY are subsidizing the other 99 people, no matter what percentage they pay.

Wrong again! - Un-even tax rate policy takes from the higher rate payers & helps the lower rate payers. It is anti competitive for the highest rate payer. That is a FACT regardless of how you feel about it.

 

[martybegan]

Well you THOUGHT WRONG!

Subsidy Definition from Merriam Webster Dictionary:

Financial assistance, either through direct payments or through indirect means such as price cuts and favorable contracts, to a person or group in order to promote a public objective. Subsidies to transportation, housing, agriculture, mining, and other industries have been instituted on the grounds that their preservation or expansion is in the public interest. Subsidies to the arts, sciences, humanities, and religion also exist in many nations where the private economy is unable to support them. Examples of direct subsidies include payments in cash or in kind, while more-indirect subsidies include governmental provision of goods or services at prices below the normal market price, governmental purchase of goods or services at prices above the market price, and tax concessions. Although subsidies exist to promote the public welfare, they result in either higher taxes or higher prices for consumer goods. Some subsidies, such as protective tariffs, may also encourage the preservation of inefficient producers. A subsidy is desirable only if its effects increase total benefits more than total costs.

ooh! a dictonary definition! That really defines policy...

Again, taxation is to finance the government. It is not to create social policy, or create a measure of fairness.

To me taxation is about money. Rich people pay more of it, each one supporting multiple lower paying taxpayers. It is the rich that subsidize the less well off in our government. That is the whole concept of a progressive tax system. If a person pays 100x the average tax bill, THEY are subsidizing the other 99 people, no matter what percentage they pay.

Wrong again! - Un-even tax rate policy takes from the higher rate payers & helps the lower rate payers. It is anti competitive for the highest rate payer. That is a FACT regardless of how you feel about it.

It is not a fact, it is an opinion. The FACT is even if a higher earner is paying a lower rate, they are paying more money. By paying more money they are funding more of the government compared to someone paying less money, hence subsidizing.

Your OPINION also assumes the government cannot just SPEND LESS with the current income they have. You ASSUME the money belongs to the government to begin with, and its just a matter of who gets to pay how much. You also ASSUME percentage is what determines subsidizing, when it is actually VALUE that determines who pays more for the same government.

Glad to help you.

 

[Si modo]

The top 10% income earners pay for ~70% of the personal income tax revenues, and have been doing so for years.



Now, What the hell are you going on about?

 

[KissMy]

Quick Question.

Were we subsidizing Ethanol because we were taxing it 23 cents less per gallon than gasoline?

 

[martybegan]

Quick Question.

Were we subsidizing Ethanol because we were taxing it 23 cents less per gallon than gasoline?

No, we were taxing it 23 cents a gallon less. Are we subsidizing orange juice because we tax beer at a higher rate?

 

[KissMy]

Quick Question.

Were we subsidizing Ethanol because we were taxing it 23 cents less per gallon than gasoline?

No, we were taxing it 23 cents a gallon less. Are we subsidizing orange juice because we tax beer at a higher rate?

You got your ass handed to you on the subsidies thread. Yes we are subsidizing the rich. That is a fact as you well know & continue to lie about.

The fact is the middle class needs a tax cut or we must raise taxes on the rich or both. Currently the middle class is subsidizing the rich. The government has set up an uneven playing field by taxing the rich far less than the middle class.

- KissMy (middle class job creator) produces widgets & gets taxed at 28%.
- Mitt Romney (entitled rich pussy) produces widgets & gets taxed at 13%.
Now Romney can produce widgets & sell them for profit cheaper than KissMy. KissMy middle class ass goes under & becomes KissMy poor broke ass. Romney acquires KissMy widgets from bankruptsy for a fire-sale price of 10 cents on the dollar. He has taken over the assets & market thus has more tax revenue but still lower tax rates enabling him to unfairly compete & destroy another middle class job creator.

We are also forced to subsidize the rich's flood insurance. They are the ones who own most of the beech homes & benifit the most from that massive subsidy. To top it off we had to bail out their banks. All accounts are FDIC insured up to $250K. But the rich had much more than that in their accounts. $2.5 trillion of their bad bets & debts got rolled onto the ballance sheet of the Federal Reserve where they remain to this day even as they lie & say they paid us back.

 

[KissMy]

Seems to me you should be bitching about the taxes on wages and salaries being too high, not investment and cap gains incomes (which is what most retirees live off of) being too low.

Hmmmm?

You are correct. The middle class has to much tax burden. But the rich enjoy their tax subsidy. The fact is the middle class needs a tax cut or we must raise taxes on the rich or both until the rich pays a higher percent in taxes than the middle class. As my avatar & sig says, it's time to Rise Above partisan bullshit & fix this country.

 

[Oddball]

Seems to me you should be bitching about the taxes on wages and salaries being too high, not investment and cap gains incomes (which is what most retirees live off of) being too low.

Hmmmm?

You are correct. The middle class has to much tax burden. But the rich enjoy their tax subsidy. The fact is the middle class needs a tax cut or we must raise taxes on the rich or both until the rich pays a higher percent in taxes than the middle class. As my avatar & sig says, it's time to Rise Above partisan bullshit & fix this country.

The only "tax subsidies" are the refundable tax credits, like EITC, enjoyed by lower wage/salary earners, which gets them out of paying that old "fair share" of the tax burden that we all hear so much about.

Fact remains that spending is still too high, rather than taxes being too low.

 

[mudwhistle]

 

[KissMy]

Seems to me you should be bitching about the taxes on wages and salaries being too high, not investment and cap gains incomes (which is what most retirees live off of) being too low.

Hmmmm?

You are correct. The middle class has to much tax burden. But the rich enjoy their tax subsidy. The fact is the middle class needs a tax cut or we must raise taxes on the rich or both until the rich pays a higher percent in taxes than the middle class. As my avatar & sig says, it's time to Rise Above partisan bullshit & fix this country.

The only "tax subsidies" are the refundable tax credits, like EITC, enjoyed by lower wage/salary earners, which gets them out of paying that old "fair share" of the tax burden that we all hear so much about.

Fact remains that spending is still too high, rather than taxes being too low.

So do you support a middle class tax cut?

 

[Oddball]

Actually, I support the ending of all taxes on incomes and returning to funding the affairs of state via lawful imposts, duties, fees and excises.

As we can see today, direct taxes upon productive pursuits have become the playthings of do-gooder central planner social engineers and petty demagogues.

 

[mudwhistle]

The theme of Obama's first inaugeration was "A New Birth Of Freedom".

In retrospect his speech it was full of hypocrisy. It also set a precedent by criticizing his predecessor. This proved to be a large part of his first term.

Obama told us to put aside our petty differences.

LMAO!!!



What's hilarious is how Obama screwed up his oath of office the way he screwed up his first term and the country he served. You can watch it at this link:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Barack_Obama_inaugural_address.ogv

 

[edthecynic]

Seems to me you should be bitching about the taxes on wages and salaries being too high, not investment and cap gains incomes (which is what most retirees live off of) being too low.

Hmmmm?

What most WEALTHY retirees you should have said!


Even your MessiahRushie for years admits the income tax and cap gains tax rates are a scam, of course, he says that to attack Buffett and not people like Bishop Willard. He repeated it again yesterday.


August 7, 2007
CALLER: And, you know, and the way our tax system works, we have an overly complex system, which in and of itself is a problem, but the way our tax system works and the way the tax laws are written, it's based on a few kind of like hinge numbers like adjusted gross income and taxable income, and while the soak the rich -- or however you choose to describe it -- really doesn't come down that way. It really comes down to much lower income levels.


RUSH: It does, exactly, and here's the dirty little secret if you ever to pull it off. It's hard. This is why most people don't understand the tax-the-rich business. You've got to structure your life so you have no "earned" income. I'm out of time. I'll explain that. There's a category called earned income versus other kinds of income. Earned income is what the income tax rate is on. That's how "the rich" do it. They don't have "earned" income.
END TRANSCRIPT


The Truth About Taxes
August 6, 2007
RUSH: I've told you before: the income tax is designed to keep people like his [Buffett's] secretary from becoming wealthy! There is no "wealth" tax. So this is a big misnomer. ...
But there's no tax on wealth. There is a tax on income, and the tax on income is designed to keep everybody who is not wealthy from getting there.
I'm talking about genuine wealth, not the way Democrats define "rich."


December 06, 2012
RUSH: The problem is, in Warren Buffett's case, you could raise the income tax rate to a hundred percent and you're gonna be collecting taxes on about $120,000 of income. The rest of his income is not earned, so to speak. It's dividend, capital gains. He's got his wealth. You're going to have to institute a wealth tax to go get people like Buffett and many moguls and many executives. They've insured themselves.
You have to understand, the income tax is to prevent you from accruing wealth.

 

[Oddball]

Piss off, hater.

Monies in pension funds, IRAs and 401ks - the retirement plans of the middle class- almost invariably end up in securities subject to cap gains and dividend taxation.

The hating hater deflection to Limpbagh notwithstanding, your class warrior hater dog don't hunt no more, comrade.