Middle class could face higher taxes under Republican plan, analysis finds

[Luddly Neddite]

The tax reform plan that House Republicans have advanced would sharply cut taxes for the wealthiest Americans and could leave middle-class households facing much larger tax bills...

This is exactly what Mittens has been promising he would do.

The rw voter cannot say this is not true because, in FACT, their own leaders have been saying this is what they plan to do to us. They can never ever say they didn't know.

 

[RDD_1210]

I don't think RDD has the intellectual prowess to grasp what you're saying, Dave. it seems like a battle that can never be won. Unfortunately, we have an entire divide in the country based right off this very line of non-thinking.

It takes "intellectual prowess" such as yours to support politicians who want to raise your taxes while convincing you that it's in your best interest. Smart guy you are.

 

[whitehall]

Junk in junk out. The tax code is so complicated that the freaking secretary of the treasury said didn't know how to file his taxes. Just like the global warming computers that were fed admittedly skewed information you can feed in a room full of crap and come up with the analysis you want and feed it to the Washington Post.

 

[DiamondDave]

LOL, someones pants are on fire.....

So you are saying:

You DO NOT support increased taxation on the 'rich'?
You DO NOT support deductions on subjective criteria when it benefits things that you can or might be able to take advantage of...??
You DO support deductions or perks to the very same 'rich' when it is something they can take advantage of??
You DO NOTsupport lesser taxation for some based on subjective criteria such as 'fairness' and 'hurt'??

The first one is the only one you got right, the rest are invented bullshit that you need to pretend I said to be able to make your twisted argument.

No it is not.... You have supported differences and deductions based on subjective criteria...
You have never supported a deduction or tax benefit for 'the rich' that someone else cannot get
You do support lesser rates on some because of the subjective criteria of 'fairness'

And you have demonstrated that with such things, you do not support equality in treatment... only selective equality when it benefits you or those you think deserve it... while calling for unequal treatment of others you think are undeserving of equal treatment because they can provide something for you or your cause

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The plan does not increase my taxes.

 

[RDD_1210]

As stated SO many fucking times...

I strive for equality in treatment without subjective criteria... like a sales tax that does not sway because you earn $20K while Joe Blow earns $200K... the very same blind OBJECTIVITY and SIMPLICITY in income taxation

I am not about who benefits and who don't.. who should sacrifice more while someone else sacrifices less.. that is your SUBJECTIVE criteria

We benefit from equal treatment and we also sacrifice for it... and it is not based on someone boo hooing more than someone else

There should be NOBODY excluded from the sacrifice of paying for our government and the running of it... and if someone actually has a stake in the game, rather than deriving benefit, while contributing nothing or little, at the expense of others, our government may not remain as out of control as it is now... don't think people complain or worry about government debt growing when they have no burden in paying for it

Simple yes or no.

Should the taxes on the poor and middle class who currently don't pay federal income taxes be raised?

It is not a simple yes or no...

Should those who pay no taxes pay an equal share of taxes like every citizen should?? Yes

There it is, the 46% or whatever that you constantly bitch about should pay more taxes according to you. Raising taxes on the poor and middle class is the best option for our country according to you and those who have brainwashed you. Thanks for proving the point of the OP.

Should that tax rate be a % that is more than the middle class make?? That would have to be determined after analyzing the budget, cutting spending etc...

Could the equalized tax rate be an increase for some?? Yep... Could it be less?? Yep... but it is about equality in treatment without subjective criteria that brings about governmental pandering vore votes and power

Basic needs are not subjective, but your system of "equality" certainly is.

Increase taxes on the poor and middle class. The real path to prosperity! Yah, be proud!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I don't think RDD has the intellectual prowess to grasp what you're saying, Dave. it seems like a battle that can never be won. Unfortunately, we have an entire divide in the country based right off this very line of non-thinking.

It takes "intellectual prowess" such as yours to support politicians who want to raise your taxes while convincing you that it's in your best interest. Smart guy you are.

Explain to me how this plan increases my taxes. If you would actually explain something instead of making snarky remarks that in a face to face conversation would likely get you smacked, we might actually get beyond this childish bickering and get to heart of the matter.

 

[RDD_1210]

So you are saying:

You DO NOT support increased taxation on the 'rich'?
You DO NOT support deductions on subjective criteria when it benefits things that you can or might be able to take advantage of...??
You DO support deductions or perks to the very same 'rich' when it is something they can take advantage of??
You DO NOTsupport lesser taxation for some based on subjective criteria such as 'fairness' and 'hurt'??

The first one is the only one you got right, the rest are invented bullshit that you need to pretend I said to be able to make your twisted argument.

No it is not.... You have supported differences and deductions based on subjective criteria...
You have never supported a deduction or tax benefit for 'the rich' that someone else cannot get
You do support lesser rates on some because of the subjective criteria of 'fairness'

And you have demonstrated that with such things, you do not support equality in treatment... only selective equality when it benefits you or those you think deserve it... while calling for unequal treatment of others you think are undeserving of equal treatment because they can provide something for you or your cause

You can keep repeating it as many times as you want, it won't make it true. Link me to anywhere I said anything that you are claiming.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Should the taxes on the poor and middle class who currently don't pay federal income taxes be raised?

Except that, most of those who do not pay income taxes do not have enough income to do so, OR, like Mittens and his cronies, have accountants who hide their money in loopholes.

If the question is, 'Should the little old lady down the street who lives on her Social Security have to pay more in INCOME tax', of course not.

At it stands now, that same little old lady pays plenty of other taxes and there is no reason why the very poor should be forced to take on the responsibility of saving our economy from the damage the one percent have done on Wall Street.

To suggest otherwise, is nothing short of obscene abuse.

BTW, Etch A Sketch took a $77THOUSAND DOLLAR deduction for his horse. Why should he and his cronies NOT have to pay their fair share?

 

[RDD_1210]

The plan does not increase my taxes.

So that's why you support it! Self interest. Got it.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Well one thing on this board, I do know, is that liberals NEVER question their side, EVER.
This report was done by Senator Reid, so liest to me again how the taxes are going to go higher?

I guess you're slow on the uptake, since conservatives like you claim everything a Democrat says is a lie. But since you'd never critically analyze anything that comes from Paul Ryan, let me help you out with one shining example. He wants to get rid of the home mortgage interest deduction. Who does that hurt most, in terms of percentage of income, that repeal will result in higher taxes. I'd suggest the middle three quintiles. He also wants to repeal the tax break for what a company pays for your health insurance (not from the corporate deduction, but adding it to your list of taxable income).

Those are two clear examples of how the GOP plan will screw the middle class, while giving a huge tax cut to the wealthiest. For the sake of argument, just use quintiles or deciles, so we don't get into stupid arguments about who hates the rich. That's pretty much what the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center did.

All breaks SHOULD go away.. for they are subjective in nature and pander to only certain groups...

But when you simplify the system, the supporting system should shrink and cost less.. and when you couple that with reducing spending, eliminating entitlements etc, the cost of government should decrease... meaning that the necessary tax rate to support the government should also decrease...

Again.. equality in treatment instead of having government slobbering all over itself with backroom deals, pandering for votes by giving more subjective breaks and exemptions, and all that shit

You think a sales tax is unfair?? $0.06 on every dollar regardless of what you earn or what you own? I mean, you're not getting a break because you and your group had your vote bought by some politician promising zero taxes on Chevy cars and plastic lawn chairs because they suit your lifestyle.. how is that fair?

Fine. If you eliminate cut rate taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends, since they too are special treatment. Why not also tax those who transfer property due to death? Why should that income not be taxed at a regular rate.

Hey, maybe we should get rid of the limited liability that corporations enjoy, and allow those who are damaged corporate acts to sue all the owners, and not just on hand assets?

Will corporations who buy goods and services also pay your flat sales tax, or will they receive special treatment?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I'm middle to lower class in the income brackets in NYC. You truly have no point. You can not even debate, you only know how to inject snarky sarcasm that you probably think makes you look smart.
When it only really makes you look like a smart ass troll that has no point.


Explain how the plan raises my taxes.

 

[RDD_1210]

I don't think RDD has the intellectual prowess to grasp what you're saying, Dave. it seems like a battle that can never be won. Unfortunately, we have an entire divide in the country based right off this very line of non-thinking.

It takes "intellectual prowess" such as yours to support politicians who want to raise your taxes while convincing you that it's in your best interest. Smart guy you are.

Explain to me how this plan increases my taxes. If you would actually explain something instead of making snarky remarks that in a face to face conversation would likely get you smacked, we might actually get beyond this childish bickering and get to heart of the matter.

I don't know how much you make or what you currently pay in taxes so how can I tell you that?

And I've tried explaining things on a variety of topics countless times on this site. I realize it means nothing as there are very few people who are actually open to a rational conversation. People like Dave for instance will insist on telling me what I believe. Whats the point? This site is for comedy purposes only. I know who is able to have an adult conversation and I haven't seen any of those few people in this thread.

 

[DiamondDave]

Simple yes or no.

Should the taxes on the poor and middle class who currently don't pay federal income taxes be raised?

It is not a simple yes or no...

Should those who pay no taxes pay an equal share of taxes like every citizen should?? Yes

There it is, the 46% or whatever that you constantly bitch about should pay more taxes according to you. Raising taxes on the poor and middle class is the best option for our country according to you and those who have brainwashed you. Thanks for proving the point of the OP.

Should that tax rate be a % that is more than the middle class make?? That would have to be determined after analyzing the budget, cutting spending etc...

Could the equalized tax rate be an increase for some?? Yep... Could it be less?? Yep... but it is about equality in treatment without subjective criteria that brings about governmental pandering vore votes and power

Basic needs are not subjective, but your system of "equality" certainly is.

Increase taxes on the poor and middle class. The real path to prosperity! Yah, be proud!

EVERYONE should have equal % burden in taxation.. PERIOD.. EQUAL TREATMENT BY GOVERNMENT UNDER LAW

Just because you and those like you have warped the system to make it that those who meet your subjective criteria can cry and force others to pay while they do not, does not make it right

Basic needs are something that YOU are responsible for YOURSELF.. it is not the responsibility of someone else to have things taken from them to meet your basic needs simply because you want it

You want prosperity, earning is the only way to get it.. you do not breed prosperity by handing things out to others who do nothing in return... working people bring prosperity and can achieve success... entitlement junkies burden society, and do not bring prosperity to it

 

[RDD_1210]

I'm middle to lower class in the income brackets in NYC. You truly have no point. You can not even debate, you only know how to inject snarky sarcasm that you probably think makes you look smart.
When it only really makes you look like a smart ass troll that has no point.


Explain how the plan raises my taxes.

Well I've been told that people such as yourself who make up the lower middle class are the one who are "not sacrificing enough". Dave told me that. Good news though. The republican plan will broaden and flatten the tax base to ensure people such as yourself are able to pay more in taxes and get yourself on the fast track to prosperity.

 

[DiamondDave]

Should the taxes on the poor and middle class who currently don't pay federal income taxes be raised?

Except that, most of those who do not pay income taxes do not have enough income to do so, OR, like Mittens and his cronies, have accountants who hide their money in loopholes.

If the question is, 'Should the little old lady down the street who lives on her Social Security have to pay more in INCOME tax', of course not.

At it stands now, that same little old lady pays plenty of other taxes and there is no reason why the very poor should be forced to take on the responsibility of saving our economy from the damage the one percent have done on Wall Street.

To suggest otherwise, is nothing short of obscene abuse.

BTW, Etch A Sketch took a $77THOUSAND DOLLAR deduction for his horse. Why should he and his cronies NOT have to pay their fair share?

If you have no income, you pay no taxes in an equal treatment system.. but you also receive no benefit.. and that choice to make nothing puts you in your predicament..

And no.. Romney in an equal system with no loopholes or deductions would not be able to claim such a deduction.. and I fully support that

 

[DiamondDave]

The first one is the only one you got right, the rest are invented bullshit that you need to pretend I said to be able to make your twisted argument.

No it is not.... You have supported differences and deductions based on subjective criteria...
You have never supported a deduction or tax benefit for 'the rich' that someone else cannot get
You do support lesser rates on some because of the subjective criteria of 'fairness'

And you have demonstrated that with such things, you do not support equality in treatment... only selective equality when it benefits you or those you think deserve it... while calling for unequal treatment of others you think are undeserving of equal treatment because they can provide something for you or your cause

You can keep repeating it as many times as you want, it won't make it true. Link me to anywhere I said anything that you are claiming.

Ok.. .I can go back thru thousands of posts and pull out examples of you objecting to lesser rates or deductions for the rich that others cannot deduct... and pull out posts that show that you support that you support lesser rates for certain groups based on the subjective notion of 'fairness'...

Or you can simply state right here that:

You do not support differing rates based on what you or others consider more 'fair' to those in situations you sympathize with
You do support deductions for the rich that others can not get and do support differing lower rates on things the rich have that are not deemed as normal income

Because otherwise, the opposite is EXACTLY what you support... unequal treatment of others that do not meet your subjective criteria because it either benefits you or something specific to your cause

But we already know that you reject non-subjective and blind equal treatment

 

[RDD_1210]

It is not a simple yes or no...

Should those who pay no taxes pay an equal share of taxes like every citizen should?? Yes

There it is, the 46% or whatever that you constantly bitch about should pay more taxes according to you. Raising taxes on the poor and middle class is the best option for our country according to you and those who have brainwashed you. Thanks for proving the point of the OP.

Should that tax rate be a % that is more than the middle class make?? That would have to be determined after analyzing the budget, cutting spending etc...

Could the equalized tax rate be an increase for some?? Yep... Could it be less?? Yep... but it is about equality in treatment without subjective criteria that brings about governmental pandering vore votes and power

Basic needs are not subjective, but your system of "equality" certainly is.

Increase taxes on the poor and middle class. The real path to prosperity! Yah, be proud!

EVERYONE should have equal % burden in taxation.. PERIOD.. EQUAL TREATMENT BY GOVERNMENT UNDER LAW

Just because you and those like you have warped the system to make it that those who meet your subjective criteria can cry and force others to pay while they do not, does not make it right

Basic needs are something that YOU are responsible for YOURSELF.. it is not the responsibility of someone else to have things taken from them to meet your basic needs simply because you want it

You want prosperity, earning is the only way to get it.. you do not breed prosperity by handing things out to others who do nothing in return... working people bring prosperity and can achieve success... entitlement junkies burden society, and do not bring prosperity to it

Keep repeating the same shit over and over. Maybe someone will believe it. You're a living, breathing talking point.

Again, basic needs are not subjective. Everyone, rich or poor have the same basic needs. That's what makes them basic. This is where your entire argument falls apart. By imposing a completely flat tax you are making the acquisition of those basic needs much more difficult for the poor. Thus your idea of equal is anything but and why we don't have your narrow minded system in place.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Still waiting for your answer Dave...

As stated SO many fucking times...

I strive for equality in treatment without subjective criteria... like a sales tax that does not sway because you earn $20K while Joe Blow earns $200K... the very same blind OBJECTIVITY and SIMPLICITY in income taxation

I am not about who benefits and who don't.. who should sacrifice more while someone else sacrifices less.. that is your SUBJECTIVE criteria

We benefit from equal treatment and we also sacrifice for it... and it is not based on someone boo hooing more than someone else

There should be NOBODY excluded from the sacrifice of paying for our government and the running of it... and if someone actually has a stake in the game, rather than deriving benefit, while contributing nothing or little, at the expense of others, our government may not remain as out of control as it is now... don't think people complain or worry about government debt growing when they have no burden in paying for it

Simple yes or no.

Should the taxes on the poor and middle class who currently don't pay federal income taxes be raised?

To clarify, we're talking about income taxes, since the poor already pay just as much excise tax as everyone else.

 

[DiamondDave]

I guess you're slow on the uptake, since conservatives like you claim everything a Democrat says is a lie. But since you'd never critically analyze anything that comes from Paul Ryan, let me help you out with one shining example. He wants to get rid of the home mortgage interest deduction. Who does that hurt most, in terms of percentage of income, that repeal will result in higher taxes. I'd suggest the middle three quintiles. He also wants to repeal the tax break for what a company pays for your health insurance (not from the corporate deduction, but adding it to your list of taxable income).

Those are two clear examples of how the GOP plan will screw the middle class, while giving a huge tax cut to the wealthiest. For the sake of argument, just use quintiles or deciles, so we don't get into stupid arguments about who hates the rich. That's pretty much what the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center did.

All breaks SHOULD go away.. for they are subjective in nature and pander to only certain groups...

But when you simplify the system, the supporting system should shrink and cost less.. and when you couple that with reducing spending, eliminating entitlements etc, the cost of government should decrease... meaning that the necessary tax rate to support the government should also decrease...

Again.. equality in treatment instead of having government slobbering all over itself with backroom deals, pandering for votes by giving more subjective breaks and exemptions, and all that shit

You think a sales tax is unfair?? $0.06 on every dollar regardless of what you earn or what you own? I mean, you're not getting a break because you and your group had your vote bought by some politician promising zero taxes on Chevy cars and plastic lawn chairs because they suit your lifestyle.. how is that fair?

Fine. If you eliminate cut rate taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends, since they too are special treatment. Why not also tax those who transfer property due to death? Why should that income not be taxed at a regular rate.

Hey, maybe we should get rid of the limited liability that corporations enjoy, and allow those who are damaged corporate acts to sue all the owners, and not just on hand assets?

Will corporations who buy goods and services also pay your flat sales tax, or will they receive special treatment?

Yes.. eliminate special rates on capital gains, etc...

I am for equal ZERO taxation on what you pass to your family when you die.. for what has been earned has already been taxed... I don't care if it is only a TV and a jalopy that you have handed to you, or if it is a mansion and a stock portfolio... but if you sell those things in the future or earn income off of them, then you would indeed be taxed on that income

No corporation nor any entity would receive special treatment... and all would be taxed equally without loophole or deduction on all earnings.. on a flat rate... eliminating any special treatment by government that is exploited for power or benefit